$4000 Billiard University (BU) Exam I 100 Challenge

[cleary]

Very nice and in principle I like what you're trying to do.

But what some players have available are very tight, very finicky, 9' Diamonds, or even GCs set up to very tight specs. Given that type of equipment, why would someone try and compete against another player shooting on a table with far more forgiving pockets. As you would know, how much wiggle room you have on the pockets makes difference, not only pocketing the balls, but playing position.

I don't think it can ever be a fair, universal test.

Lou Figueroa

Goddammmmn aint that a pool player thing to do? Complain about a free roll and make excuses before they hit a ball... Not that you'll actually give this a try.

Here's a thought, go to a different table...

 

[dr_dave]

This is why Pool is not considered a sport for many and while all the more this game is dying.

Pool players will complain about anything! Oh the pockets are not tight enough, now they are to tight, no no hes playing on faster cloth, no no its his table at home, not its a commercial table so its got dead rails, humidity is to high, hey that player is using smaller pool balls, wtf? Why bash on something where someone is giving out free money.

Dont like it, stay away and don't comment. If this doesn't interest you, then why post a comment or ask a question?

If this was any other sport, you would have people lined up to post a video of them doing something to cash in on 2.5K.

I bet if we were in the Philippines and everyone had access to the information there would be lines for days of people trying to collect

Thanks for all you do Dave and best of luck contestants

Thank you for your supportive post. I appreciate it.

I hope we get lots of entries from top players. It will be fun to see how well the best can master the Exam drills. I'm also curious to see the choices some of the top players make concerning technique (open vs. closed bridge, elbow drop vs. not), ball-in-hand CB placement with the stun and wagon-wheel drills, outside vs. touch-of-inside english with the stun drill and some of the position-drill shots, and position-play choices on the position drill (especially the draw shot to target position 2).

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Here's a thought, go to a different table...

Good point. Everybody is free to use whatever table they want, as long as it is 9' or larger. Obviously, a person with a 9' table at home might have an advantage, but it is easy to find quiet time at a pool hall at certain times of the day. And if a room owner doesn't want you putting donuts on the table, they are not required. You can either tap balls into the table at the key positions to make it easy to place balls consistently or just place the balls by hand (without donuts or ball-tap marks) as accurately as possible (they don't need to be perfect).

And if people don't want to enter the challenge (maybe because they don't expect to place in the top 3), I hope they will still consider posting scores (and videos if available) in the AZB BU Playing-Ability Exam sticky thread, as many other AZB users have. It is fun to see how everybody plays; and sometimes people offer free and useful advice based on what they see in the videos.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[cleary]

Good point. Everybody is free to use whatever table they want, as long as it is 9' or larger. Obviously, a person with a 9' table at home might have an advantage, but it is easy to find quiet time at a pool hall at certain times of the day. And if a room owner doesn't want you putting donuts on the table, they are not required. You can either tap balls into the table at the key positions to make it easy to place balls consistently or just place the balls by hand (without donuts or ball-tap marks) as accurately as possible (they don't need to be perfect).

And if people don't want to enter the challenge (maybe because they don't expect to place in the top 3), I hope they will still consider posting scores (and videos if available) in the AZB BU Playing-Ability Exam sticky thread, as many other AZB users have. It is fun to see how everybody plays; and sometimes people offer free and useful advice based on what they see in the videos.

Catch you later,
Dave

My table at home is tough and slow... and has rolls and one of the pockets is nightmare tough lol. BUT I'll still try it, again. I'd just like to see how I've improved since last time. If I really cared about a high score, I'd go to a pool hall with buckets and I'd probably increase my score a lot.

 

[dr_dave]

My table at home is tough and slow... and has rolls and one of the pockets is nightmare tough lol. BUT I'll still try it, again. I'd just like to see how I've improved since last time. If I really cared about a high score, I'd go to a pool hall with buckets and I'd probably increase my score a lot.

I look forward to seeing how much higher you can score now (especially if you dedicate a little practice to the Exam).

FYI, I don't think table slowness or pocket geometry has a big effect on Exam I results (unlike Exam II, where conditions can have a huge effect), but I will be curious to hear what you and others think about this after trying Exam I on different tables.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[td873]

After seeing this thread, I decided to give the exam a go. I set up the markers and took the exam for the first time over the weekend. I was actually shocked at how many easy shots I ended up giving away points on. And the wagon wheel ate my lunch for some reason. I was surprised to only score a 60. I was confident that I would break 80 on the first go round - but no dice. One thing is for sure, if you don't take it seriously, or just plain shoot lazy, the drills will make you pay.

I think most people will find a pretty significant improvement across 3 or 4 tests simply due to familiarity of the shots. And a little practice will go a long way.

-td

[edit: I just watched Dr. Dave shoot the test and realized I could have been moving the cue ball/object ball more. I basically set up the same shot over and over for most drills, and the wagon wheel looked to be easier moving the cue ball around strategically. If I can find time, I'm going to give this a go again with a little more insight]

 

[dr_dave]

After seeing this thread, I decided to give the exam a go. I set up the markers and took the exam for the first time over the weekend. I was actually shocked at how many easy shots I ended up giving away points on. And the wagon wheel ate my lunch for some reason. I was surprised to only score a 60. I was confident that I would break 80 on the first go round - but no dice. One thing is for sure, if you don't take it seriously, or just plain shoot lazy, the drills will make you pay.

I think most people will find a pretty significant improvement across 3 or 4 tests simply due to familiarity of the shots. And a little practice will go a long way.

-td

[edit: I just watched Dr. Dave shoot the test and realized I could have been moving the cue ball/object ball more. I basically set up the same shot over and over for most drills, and the wagon wheel looked to be easier moving the cue ball around strategically. If I can find time, I'm going to give this a go again with a little more insight]

I'm glad to hear you are giving it a go, and I'm glad you got a couple of pointers from my new Exam I video. If you want some other pointers, you might want to check out the clips on the BU demos videos page. It can also help to watch how the high-scoring players approach the shots. You can find Exam I videos on the BU graduates page and on the AZB BU sticky thread.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[9BallKY]

My problem is I only have an iPhone to record with and it either runs out of space
and stops recording or after you do get something recorded you can't ever get over
a 15 minute video to upload to YouTube because where I live the internet sucks
Also can't email a video of that size it says file to large.

 

[dr_dave]

My problem is I only have an iPhone to record with and it either runs out of space
and stops recording or after you do get something recorded you can't ever get over
a 15 minute video to upload to YouTube because where I live the internet sucks
Also can't email a video of that size it says file to large.

I wonder if this sort of thing is a problem with most people who might be interested.

Regards,
Dave

 

[9BallKY]

I recorded 3 or 4 videos for the ghost challenge and was never able to get a single
one of them to upload

 

[iba7467]

Do you guys think the $2500 first prize is high enough to encourage some top players to give it a go, especially since no travel or other expense is required?

Thanks,
Dave

PS: If you guys know some pros personally, please encourage them to enter the challenge. And if they don't know how to record and post video, please help them (or find somebody to help).

I hope to set it up and have a pro player attempt it next week. If the video is too large to upload to Youtube, we may mail you a copy.

 

[Dan Harriman]

I agree with Lou

I too applaud Dr. Dave's effort in thinking outside the box. Many ways however to doctor a home table when there is $ dangling in front as they say. Pocket size will matter on every exam, not to mention sanded slate (drop pockets). Probly a great idea for amateur players, pro's will expect an even playing field Dave.

I like Jay and Fat boys offer on surpassing Willie's 526 - I hope they will extend it to a 5x10 as that is all I practice on. I just play more tree cushion now uh days. But yeah the camera is on Dr. Dave.

 

[dr_dave]

I hope to set it up and have a pro player attempt it next week.

Sounds good.

If the video is too large to upload to Youtube, we may mail you a copy.

I would be happy to do the upload for you if you send me a video (on DVD or USB flash drive) of a top player with a good score (85 or above).

Be aware that even a pro probably won't be able to get a top score on the 1st or even 2nd attempt. It takes a little practice and strategy to get a top score. Even on Shane VanBoening's 2nd attempt at Exam I, where he was trying really hard, he only got an 84. That's a strong score for somebody who hasn't practiced with the Exam, but I am sure he could do much better with some dedicated practice. My current top score (in my recent video) is an 87, and I am certainly nowhere close to Shane's level of ability (although, I have tried the exam probably hundreds of times, and the 87 is my current absolute best). Tobias Bongers, a young pro in Germany, was able to reach 95 on Exam I during the previous BU Exam Challenge after some dedicated and focused practice. Here's Tobias' video. I hope Tobias enters this challenge also. He should have a chance at the 100.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I too applaud Dr. Dave's effort in thinking outside the box.

Thanks.

Many ways however to doctor a home table when there is $ dangling in front as they say. Pocket size will matter on every exam, not to mention sanded slate (drop pockets). Probably a great idea for amateur players, pro's will expect an even playing field Dave.

A doctored table won't help at all with the CB control required for the stop, follow, and draw drills, or with the stun drill, or with the wagon wheel drill, or with the target drill. Generous pockets can help with the ball pocketing drill (only 10 of the 100 points), but a high score on Exam I is possible only with accurate and consistent CB control. As I pointed out before, Exam II (not part of this challenge) is a different story. There, pocket size can have a huge effect.

But yeah the camera is on Dr. Dave.

I'm glad to hear it, and I look forward to seeing a video from you soon with a good score.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[eihi]

Enjoy your videos Dr.
I will take the exam and look forward to seeing how I score, I have a 7ft table so I won't be eligible for the $, or maybe I will make a trip to the local hall.

I think it great of you to put Up some money to make it more fun.

 

[eihi]

For the competition my humble .02 cents.
Set it up, do it is only possible to score a
100 on a 10ft table with x" pocket/shelf.

If person doing challenge does it on a table
with 5.5"pockets subtract 10points
9' table subtract 10 points,
8' table subtract 20 points etc...
I don't know, maybe along the way if you play on
different tables you can note how your score varies
from table to table and adjust the rules accordingly




I only mention as I see many people mentioning pocket size.

 

[td873]

I wonder if this sort of thing is a problem with most people who might be interested.

Regards,
Dave

Here are some thoughts on attach rate being lower than anticipated/expected:
1) video recording capabilities / lack thereof
2) no easy location (setting up at a pool hall to run the exam)
3) people start the test but realize they aren't going to score well and give up. [I think people inherently want to avoid being objectively bad at something]
4) time commitment (1/2 hour or more for each iteration of the exam)
5) general banger attitude (many/most people won't even do drills for 1/2 hour to get better)
6) holier than thou mentality

My guess is that #5 and #6 cover the majority of people. And #3 limits the remainder.

-td

 

[td873]

For the competition my humble .02 cents.
Set it up, do it is only possible to score a
100 on a 10ft table with x" pocket/shelf.

If person doing challenge does it on a table
with 5.5"pockets subtract 10points
9' table subtract 10 points,
8' table subtract 20 points etc...
I don't know, maybe along the way if you play on
different tables you can note how your score varies
from table to table and adjust the rules accordingly


I only mention as I see many people mentioning pocket size.

You essentially have ball in hand position for 92% (or even more) of the shots in exam 1. IMO, you don't need to normalize the scoring. Position is easier on an 8 footer (or smaller), which is why I suspect no doctorates can be earned.

-td

 

[dr_dave]

Enjoy your videos Dr.
I will take the exam and look forward to seeing how I score, I have a 7ft table so I won't be eligible for the $, or maybe I will make a trip to the local hall.

I think it great of you to put Up some money to make it more fun.

Thanks. I look forward to seeing your scores (and videos if available), either as an official BU Challenge entry or on the AZB BU sticky thread, where many other AZB users have posted.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

For the competition my humble .02 cents.
Set it up, do it is only possible to score a
100 on a 10ft table with x" pocket/shelf.

If person doing challenge does it on a table
with 5.5"pockets subtract 10points
9' table subtract 10 points,
8' table subtract 20 points etc...
I don't know, maybe along the way if you play on
different tables you can note how your score varies
from table to table and adjust the rules accordingly

I originally developed the table difficulty factor (TDF) system to help scale scores based on equipment difficulty, but we found that the scaled scores didn't correlate very well with actual data. Also, for this contest, we wanted to keep everything as simple as possible:

- BU Exam I (Fundamentals Exam) only
- use whatever table you want as long as it is 9' or larger.

The playing field is level because people can do the challenge on any table they want (9' or larger).

I only mention as I see many people mentioning pocket size.

I suspect the people mentioning pocket size don't have any real experience with or understanding of BU Exam I. As I have described in previous posts above, pocket difficulty is not a real factor with Exam I since all of the shots are very easy to pocket for a good player on any equipment (except for the two tough side-pocket shots in the ball-pocketing drill). The difficulty of Exam I is all about having accurate and consistent CB control, not pocketing skills.

Thanks for the input and for considering to participate.

Good luck,
Dave