A hand in motion

[Lesh]

Update to the McCready stroke experiment

Still getting used to the change. It is growing on me however.
The stability is beginning to my confidence in attempting shots that I'd previously considered beyond the pall of my ability. I can generate more speed on punch through shots with top english now and get further into the table on the way back while maintaining the accuracy to hit the object ball correctly.

I am going to take some pictures of my stroke and the changes I have made to better illustrate what I am getting at here. Just wanted let everyone know that this is going to be an ongoing article.

Regards,

Lesh

 

[Black-Balled]

Could it be that you only think you run faster in your new sboes?

 

[Scott Lee]

I'm still not sure I understand the full meaning of the double fulcrum. I sure can't recognize it like Tony of Black Boar cues, but it has something to do with the shooting arm in mid stroke.

square:

JAM...The double fulcrum was described more than 30 years ago by Jack White in his book "Let Us To Billiards Away".

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[LAMas]

The side stroke is akin to the pendulum stroke only parallel to the table and not perpendicular. If one hits the CB at the apex of the stroke and not past it, the hit will be optimum. Some drop their elbow to keep the stroke parallel to the table after impact. I imagine that a side stroker doesn't need to for the stroke is always parallel to the table.

 

[Lesh]

Just FYI.... there have been previous discussions regarding the double-fulcrum stroke on this site and others. Here is a post that is interesting from www.sporttaco.com


07 Dec 2003 12:58:25
JAM
Stroke, Double Fulcrum, and a Water Buffalo

Last evening at the FalconCue Tour tournament in Laurel, Maryland, KM and a
famous cue-maker got to talking and the subject of "double fulcrum" came up.

The cue-maker went on defining what a good stroke is and how double fulcrum
comes into play. He said very few pool players have this "double fulcrum" in
their stroke, and the ones who do, KM and Efren as another example, have the
"prettiest stroke in the business" because of it.

The cue-maker started talking about dominant eye, squirt, deflection, type of
wood used in the shaft (apparently the grainier, the better), and the extremely
rare leather used to make tips, said leather only found between the shoulder
blades of a water buffalo. This cue-maker said that this unique leather, only
found in a very small area between the shoulder blades of a water buffalo, is
the best tip material you can find. When he orders a box of 50 tips from the
water buffalo tip manufacturer, only 5 in the box are suitable for his cue
sticks and all of the tips are five-eighths in size.

Next week, KM is going over to the cue-maker's shop, and after the cue-maker
analyzes Keith's "double fulcrum," squirt, deflection, and dominant eye, he is
going to custom-design a brand-new shaft with a rare water buffalo tip for the
Bobby Hunter cue. KM, a pool shooter who uses a lot of english, claims he has
been unable to shoot certain shots because his current stick, the way it sits
now, won't take the english properly, limiting his shot-making capabilities,
and if and when he acquires the "perfect shaft," if there is such a thing, with
a lot of forward balance, nobody will be able to stop him.

As an aside, KM seems to have new tips put on his cue stick more than others I
have noticed, and thus far, he has used soft Mouris and Triangles. He always
gets them "nickeled up," and it seems like every other tournament, he is
replacing the tip. Apparently, there is a general consensus that "Champion"
tips used to be the BEST, but you can't find them anymore.

So off we will go next week to the cue-maker's shop with hopes of acquiring a
new and improved shaft for KM, one with this rare water buffalo tip.

JAM
---------------------------------------------------
Not sure if that is OUR JAM or not.

Here is a link to this sites post regarding the double-fulcrum:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=222473

Please read along with meh

Lesh

 

[CJ Wiley]

The game's played with the hands, not the arms, or elbows.

Side-stroking even when down on a ball.

Keith looks unorthodox, but he's very effective because of his hand and wrist action.

Earl says "it's all in the hands" and he's telling the truth.....forget about "pendulums" and elbows and create the correct hand and wrist position FIRST....then make your elbow and shoulder conform to the hand.......not the other way around - most people have it backasswards. The game's played with the hands, not the arms, or elbows.....they, of course, have a function, but take a back seat to the hands and wrists. :smile:

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Lesh]

Keith looks unorthodox, but he's very effective because of his hand and wrist action.

Earl says "it's all in the hands" and he's telling the truth.....forget about "pendulums" and elbows and create the correct hand and wrist position FIRST....then make your elbow and shoulder conform to the hand.......not the other way around - most people have it backasswards. The game's played with the hands, not the arms, or elbows.....they, of course, have a function, but take a back seat to the hands and wrists. :smile:

'The Game is the Teacher'

Yes Sir, I agree.
This is essentially what I have taken away from watching Keith play. I dont use the side stroke. As I attempted to state earlier, I am merely extending my hand at the wrist outward as in the illustration below with the hand labeled EXTENSION. I tried the side swiping full-fledged Keith stroke, but it was way too wild and did not feel natural. I'm just stroking back and forth as it feels comfortable and natural with my wrist at its maximum (but comfy) range of motion Extended.

I promise I will take pictures to better illustrate. It is more stable for me.

Regards,

Lesh

 

[JAM]

Not sure if that is OUR JAM or not.

Here is a link to this sites post regarding the double-fulcrum:

Yeah, that's me in 2003. As you can see, I still don't understand the double fulcrum. I was raked through the coals during that era for not understanding the difference between a nickel- and/or dime-tipped cue.

I've been shooting pool since I was 18 years of age, almost 40 years, and I couldn't tell you the difference between the hit of a Joss or a Meucci. The only thing I can ascertain is the weight, 18 ounce versus 21 ounce. :embarrassed2:

Worked in a pool room during the early '80s, and I ran pool tournaments and also shot on a league. I was a 6 out of a 7 on the league, which ain't too shabby. 8-ball was my game.

I used to really, really enjoy pool in my early life as a young adult. It wasn't until I met Keith McCready in the early 2000s that I learned what a POS the American pool culture is. I kind of wish I had never been exposed to it. The best time of my life playing pool was when I was a social shooter. The professional pool world is filled with hatred, greed, and big egos who feel the need to put down others in order to make themselves feel important. Most of the big egos can't even run 3 balls in a row, so the only way they can excel in the American pool world is to bully others, oftentimes with untruths, lies, and vulgarity.

I'm going through a rough patch with pool right now, trying to embrace it for all it has to offer me and mine, wondering if the sacrifice I would have to make in 2014 is too doggone much. I was fortunate to enjoy pool during its golden years. If I could make others see and feel what I saw and felt during that era, then I will have come full circle.

 

[Black-Balled]

Thanks for elaborating on what aspect of the keither's mechanics you are exploring. If you exMine archer's back hand, I will believe yo will see that he often has his wrist bent inward.

I have found that the most natural bend for me is away from the body, as well. Minor, compared to Keith's, but evident.

 

[JoeW]

From Black boar cues, "A good stroke, not a poke, is a stroke that accelerates through the cue ball allowing for a greater contact time at the moment of impact. This is accomplished much like a golf swing by bending two places simultaneously during the stroke. For example, bending at the shoulder and elbow or, upper arm and wrist, etc. Many professional pool players offer a good example of a fluid accelerating stroke. "

http://www.blackboarcustomcues.com/howto/default.asp?CTID=254&IID=

 

[Cornerman]

"A good stroke, not a poke, is a stroke that accelerates through the cue ball allowing for a greater contact time at the moment of impact.

You're both technical enough and been around the forums enough to know that this completely untrue.

I'm certainly a believer in fluidity, following through, and everything that keeps the stroke from choking and sputtering. I'm for ease of effort and not having to reach for the velocity. But, accelerating through the ball has been proven a error-filled myth for coming up two decades.

A good, fluid, repeatable stroke will actually decelerate, not accelerate. The acceleration should be zero theoretically at impact (and then a rapid deceleration once the tip contacts), though measurements of actual professional stroking had deceleration prior to impact (Jacksonville). Even the highly revered pendulum stroke should actually have zero acceleration at theoretical impact.

But fluidity and no sputtering is paramount.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

In the snooker world the wind of change blew through in the 80's.
Steve Davis brought about the change with his simplistic mechanical approach.
This method is accurate, reliable , consistent and easy to repair.
The game was never the same, the old guard was swept aside as the new generation of coached players took over. The same would happen in pool if the game ever moves to 5x10's with tighter pockets. luckily for you the game currently does not require that level of accuracy so side swing away :thumbup:

This is an interesting and good point you make. I've stated similar things many times, but I related it to golf instruction. If you look at pro golfers from the 1930s through even the early 1990s you'll find a lot of guys with quirky swings who dug their game out of the dirt so to speak. But the kids who were born in the 80s (and 90s) and grew up in the era of advanced instruction, training academies, lessons etc have much more cookie cutter and technically correct swings. There are still a few exceptions, but they are the minority now. I don't know if pool instruction will ever develop to the point that snooker and golf instruction has, but if it did I think you'd see less unique styles of strokes among top players and more uniformity across the board.

 

[Lesh]

It is what it is.

This is an interesting and good point you make. I've stated similar things many times, but I related it to golf instruction. If you look at pro golfers from the 1930s through even the early 1990s you'll find a lot of guys with quirky swings who dug their game out of the dirt so to speak. But the kids who were born in the 80s (and 90s) and grew up in the era of advanced instruction, training academies, lessons etc have much more cookie cutter and technically correct swings. There are still a few exceptions, but they are the minority now. I don't know if pool instruction will ever develop to the point that snooker and golf instruction has, but if it did I think you'd see less unique styles of strokes among top players and more uniformity across the board.

I think I am still relatively new enough to the game (after a considerable hiatus) to where I am still developing my stroke and able to weed out that which does not fit in my game. I want to develop a raw, pure stroke that fits just me. Doing what feels natural seems to me to be the best way to go about it.

I have been a competitive rifle marksman for most of my life. Lots of method, procedure, protocol, and a whole lot of by-the-numbers involved in such an endeavor. Everyone has an opinion about every facet of marksmanship and everything related to it. In the end, it always came down to how I felt and what I did prior to taking the shot that mattered. I feel the same applies here in cue sports.

This is what draws me into playing pool. This is why its one of the hardest sports to master and a skill set that is vastly perishable and has many tiers of skill to master before you even have a prayer of advancing onward to higher understanding. Much like marksmanship... if you ask and get 30 answers, you know you have to look to yourself for your own understanding.

I really appreciate any and all input that this community can provide. I pay attention to detail and I will consider anything for what it is.

Regards,

Lesh

 

[Lesh]

Okay.... as promised, here are photos of what I am doing with my right hand. Simply rolling the butt of the cue down under my palm with the hand extending outward away from my body.

This is my wrist the textbook painful unnatural way as dictated by lore and der furher:

And this is my wrist the comfy, uber accurate Kieth McCready way:

Enjoy!

Lesh

 

[Colin Colenso]

You're both technical enough and been around the forums enough to know that this completely untrue.

I'm certainly a believer in fluidity, following through, and everything that keeps the stroke from choking and sputtering. I'm for ease of effort and not having to reach for the velocity. But, accelerating through the ball has been proven a error-filled myth for coming up two decades.

A good, fluid, repeatable stroke will actually decelerate, not accelerate. The acceleration should be zero theoretically at impact (and then a rapid deceleration once the tip contacts), though measurements of actual professional stroking had deceleration prior to impact (Jacksonville). Even the highly revered pendulum stroke should actually have zero acceleration at theoretical impact.

But fluidity and no sputtering is paramount.

True Fred,
The cue always decelerates after hitting the CB. We might say it's useful to accelerate TO the cue ball, but not through it.

I guess it's more a perception thing, that one commits to pushing or pulling along a line past the CB... I guess that helps people to avoid flinching / pulling up and/or pulling across / swiping.