A Huge Thank You from CueSports International (CSI)!
- Thread starter CSI - Ozzy
- Start date
This thread reminds me of this. The guy on the ground is the one who is banned. Punches thrown are verbal insults, and the guy on the ground cannot defend himself.
It must be difficult to invest your money and time in a sport where there are so many snipers waiting to take a shot at you.
You have done a lot for pool and I for one am grateful that you are here dedicating your time and money to our sport. The majority of readers and posters on this site support CSI, Ozzy and you. The majority of us don't enjoy slinging mud unnecessarily and a lot of us just don't want the arguments to go on ad nauseam.
I have come to realize that the main forum is simply a grist mill for a few individuals and their criticism of your efforts should simply be ignored.
Thanks again for all of your efforts! Thank goodness, you're not a quitter.
JoeyA
You have done a lot for pool and I for one am grateful that you are here dedicating your time and money to our sport. The majority of readers and posters on this site support CSI, Ozzy and you. The majority of us don't enjoy slinging mud unnecessarily and a lot of us just don't want the arguments to go on ad nauseam.
I have come to realize that the main forum is simply a grist mill for a few individuals and their criticism of your efforts should simply be ignored.
Thanks again for all of your efforts! Thank goodness, you're not a quitter.
JoeyA
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You all think something bad happened here, then just try the real estate business or worse yet, the entertainment industry. Both are full of outright liars and thieves who would steal your eyes if they could. Thanks to my years in the pool world, I have no problem recognizing and dealing with them. I greatly prefer the direct route, either a face to face confrontation or a phone call if I'm unable to meet with them. That way I don't have to talk behind their back.
In these two worlds money triumphs over integrity most of the time. Of course that's par for the course on planet Earth today. We fight wars to make money and get control of valuable holdings. Then there's religion, but I will let George Carlin explain all that to you.
P.S. You want bad, then let's talk about what happened to Bartram when he got stiffed for 90G's. That was BAD! And there should be consequences for things like this. I have no sympathy for liars and cheats.
In these two worlds money triumphs over integrity most of the time. Of course that's par for the course on planet Earth today. We fight wars to make money and get control of valuable holdings. Then there's religion, but I will let George Carlin explain all that to you.
P.S. You want bad, then let's talk about what happened to Bartram when he got stiffed for 90G's. That was BAD! And there should be consequences for things like this. I have no sympathy for liars and cheats.
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I see words written on this forum about Ozzy that are in poor taste. It is one thing to state you disagree with a decision made, but it is another to rip the guy apart verbally when he is banned.
For some folks, pool is the passion, and for others, it is their livelihood. In this regard, Ozzy is in the pool industry. People are writing things about him that are mean-spirited. Disagree with his decision-making process, and that's fine. The rest of it is a beating, a verbal beating on this thread, a beating on a man who is not here to defend himself.
I respect that you're sticking up for someone. I do the same when I feel it's right. One thing you've always been a champion of was fighting the 'multiple user names' battle and I have always very much agreed with that stance. If you have something to say, say it and own it. You do, I do, others do.
In this case, "CSI - Ozzy" and "manfromoz" fits your first example perfectly and that's ok. He changed his name and moved on as he was now representing something larger. Where he's getting into trouble is his Shoreboy account. He's not only posting from both accounts in this thread but pretending to be different people. Sure, he can always say it was his wife but couldn't we all make that claim if we were caught with multiple accounts? Honestly, I'm actually very surprised he was banned. The mods here go a bit easier on long time users and/or people in the industry.
Personally, I've known Ozzy a little over a year and met him shortly after he took his position at CSI. I tried to like him as my good friend JCIN told me he's a good guy and I respect his endorsement but Ozzy just made it really hard. At first I just thought he just had a horrible sense of humor and didn't think before he spoke but later realized that he is positive that he's the smartest person on earth and cannot have a conversation without being extremely condescending, inappropriate and downright offensive to anyone he feels he's above. And for the record, Ozzy was on my sht list long before Justin and CSI went separate ways... I don't just blindly dislike someone. I realize I also come off a certain way to people who don't know me but it usually doesn't take someone long after meeting me to find out I'm a pretty good person with a fun sense of humor.
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And you love pizza.
Well-written post, Cleary. I do see where you're coming from in some respects for sure.
It is kind of ironic, me posting on this topic, I guess. There are a few on this forum who have outright accused me of posting as Keith. But I never have posted under Keith's user name without him standing right next to me. In this respect, though, we are both posting on this forum with the same IP address.
When I first joined RSB Google Group, that was my very first experience posting on the Internet in a forum, with the exception of Prodigy. I used to post in the court reporter forum of Prodigy, but the court reporters have a different personality than the pool people. Everybody was polite to each other.
On RSB, a pool buddy told me that some egg came on this thing called RSB and said he was Keith. I couldn't believe it. So I got Keith and we figured out how to post on the Google News Group. This was back in the days of dial-up modems. You'd post and have to wait a half day or a whole day for the post to appear. :grin-square:
Well, RSB was a new experience for me, and after I saw them interact with Keith, I decided I wanted to post on it. When I did, the computer gurus said that Keith and this poster named DILLIGAF (which was me) were posting from the same IP address.
I will vigorously go after anyboyd who goes after my Keith here, there, or anywhere. I don't really care what they write about me, but dont' go after my Keith just because you don't like me. :angry:
What I am saying -- and this is hypothetical -- who is to say that Ozzy's wife or relative or friend was posting under an AzBilliards account of Ozzy's? In a court of law, you're innocent until proven guilty, but on this forum, it seems like you're guilty until proven innocent.
Have you ever posted under another identity on this forum, Cleary? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but sometimes people do things when they're in the heat of the battle, thinking with emotion instead of logic. I'm guilty of it. Heck, I imagine it happens to a lot of folks. After all, we are all members of God's human family.
I remember the Free Juice drama. This forum got an influx of brand-new members from Texas, interestingly enough. I kind of don't think they were brand-new members, either. I do believe they were wanting to stand up for their good friend, Juice. I understand loyality and friendship. You are to be commended for your loyalty to your friends. I actually have more respect for you than a lot of members here, even though we haven't seen eye to eye from time to time. There's something about you, though, that I like. You have class and a sense of values. I admire that.
I am just providing an instance of where multiple user accounts might have happened and it wasn't the same person posting under the multiple user accounts.
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You will see want you want to see, but I am not trying to make Justin look like the bad guy.
I once composed two posts for a well known professional under his account, as he asked me to word things better than he was able. That's the only time I've ever used someone else's account to my knowledge. I personally have no other user names and have never been afraid to say what I need to say under this name. I've won some friends and won enemies as well and that's something I'm ok with.
I understand what you're saying about you/Keith and I've probably been one of the people accusing you of posting as him. I'm not sure how computer literate he is and it helps get your point across with a little help. I get that and I understand that. The difference I see with you is that you've both been well known figures in the pool world for decades. I'm thinking, based on some inside knowledge, this situation is very different. Regardless, his "Why the Silence?" post in this thread made his feelings well known about his opinion of this forum and it's members so I doubt he will miss being here.
He should miss this place as AZ is one of the biggest vehicles out there where he can adversitie for FREE his events. Hell the BCAPL has their own sub section. If I had a way to reach all the members like this for my endeavor, we could be sipping Mojitos in Miami everyday.
I've had one conversation with Ozzy - yesterday. He was polite, never raised his voice and took the time to listen to me. In the end we politely agreed to disagree. I feel his analysis of the situation is skewed. His brushing aside the money that was being wagered in the Sky/Oscar match as being far less important than CSI money is my one of the biggest point of contention I have along with Sky being threatened. Whether he meant that or not, that's what the viewpoint is.
It appears he let his emotions get the best of him with the use of the third account. Something just wasn't right with the 'shore' account and I looked at it immediately. I hope a cooling off period does everyone some good. Cause CSI, Mark and Ozzy can do a lot of good in the pool world if they wanted to. Not that I am anyone, but I would be willing to help for free.
I've had one conversation with Ozzy - yesterday. He was polite, never raised his voice and took the time to listen to me. In the end we politely agreed to disagree. I feel his analysis of the situation is skewed. His brushing aside the money that was being wagered in the Sky/Oscar match as being far less important than CSI money is my one of the biggest point of contention I have along with Sky being threatened. Whether he meant that or not, that's what the viewpoint is.
It appears he let his emotions get the best of him with the use of the third account. Something just wasn't right with the 'shore' account and I looked at it immediately. I hope a cooling off period does everyone some good. Cause CSI, Mark and Ozzy can do a lot of good in the pool world if they wanted to. Not that I am anyone, but I would be willing to help for free.
Dude, in the last two years they have strong armed two pro pool players with threats of no payment and one with being banned from CSI events. Neither pro deserved it, but it has become clear that CSI looks out for their own interests, even if that comes at the expense of others.
Justin has been around on the main scene a lot longer then Johnny Come Lately Ozzy, and in all the years Justin was in the middle of some odd situations I cannot look back at one single time he showed his ass like CSI has been doing every time there is a hitch in their plans. I am not surprised at all Justin is no longer associated with CSI given these types of situations, I doubt he would be keen having any part of this type of BS.
CSI is great, as long as you toe the CSI line. It is CSI'S way or the highway, and pretty much anyone who has disagreed with them has found that out triple quick.
OK at this point I feel bad for Ozzy. I think how he handled Sky was wrong, and he shouldn't have pretended to be someone else online, if that's what happened. I suppose the embarrassment from all of that becoming public fits the crime. And maybe the backlash here will make that less likely to happen in the future. But I still think they were unfairly criticized for last summer's Ralf-SVB thing, and now that's two BCAPL Nationals and two big ethical snafus for them - one legit, the other not, IMO.
What bothers me also is the condescending way that they talk about the AZ forums, as if everyone here just criticizes for no good reason, and everyone is a troll that gets off on sitting in their basement jerking people around. Most people here are just fans interested in pool. They're no different from the people who don't go online. My pool-playing buddies who aren't on AZ but went to Nationals last summer were all talking about Ralf's forfeit and SVB's bump last year, they were all criticizing the tournament being on 7-footers this year. It's just people talking, like people do, Internet or not. If you despise AZ forum chatters, Realize that what you're saying is that you despise pool fans and players. Especially when you're the ones trolling the forums with sock puppet accounts.
Anyway, I'm still a customer, I'm looking forward to hearing more about their use of FargoRate, and I hope to get to Vegas next summer.
What bothers me also is the condescending way that they talk about the AZ forums, as if everyone here just criticizes for no good reason, and everyone is a troll that gets off on sitting in their basement jerking people around. Most people here are just fans interested in pool. They're no different from the people who don't go online. My pool-playing buddies who aren't on AZ but went to Nationals last summer were all talking about Ralf's forfeit and SVB's bump last year, they were all criticizing the tournament being on 7-footers this year. It's just people talking, like people do, Internet or not. If you despise AZ forum chatters, Realize that what you're saying is that you despise pool fans and players. Especially when you're the ones trolling the forums with sock puppet accounts.
Anyway, I'm still a customer, I'm looking forward to hearing more about their use of FargoRate, and I hope to get to Vegas next summer.
I met Ozzy at this year's CSI events and I didn't find him condescending, inappropriate or offensive in the least. I think he will be GREAT for CSI and pool in general but maybe he should just stay away from AZB for his own sanity.
It's peculiar how some people can rub you the wrong way and others don't.
As to the multiple accounts, I don't know anything about such things as I have never had another account than this one but see how it is possible that those living in your household might be using the same computer and therefore might have multiple AZB identities and of course that could be abused as well.
Hopefully, all of the verbal beatings of Ozzy and CSI have come to an end.
JoeyA
It's peculiar how some people can rub you the wrong way and others don't.
As to the multiple accounts, I don't know anything about such things as I have never had another account than this one but see how it is possible that those living in your household might be using the same computer and therefore might have multiple AZB identities and of course that could be abused as well.
Hopefully, all of the verbal beatings of Ozzy and CSI have come to an end.
JoeyA
Just goes to show you how human nature is. I got a completely different impression of Ozzy after working with him the last few months. I found him to be very straightforward and upfront in his dealings with me, plus he was open to my ideas on how to make the show work. Even when I saw something that I felt could be improved he listened carefully to what I had to say.
Of course I'm a believer that we create our relationships the way we want them to be. I get along with a lot of people that others don't always like. I do my best to give everyone I meet equal respect until they prove to me they are not deserving of that respect. Then I just leave them alone.
One more thing to clarify about what someone said earlier on here. You absolutely can't buy my respect with a paycheck. In fact if I don't like somebody or what they are up to, I wouldn't work with them at ANY price! I don't really need the job. I'm fortunate that my financial security is assured, thanks to some smart business decisions and a little hard work. Don't get me wrong, I'm not rich by any means, but I won't be missing any meals either.
A long time ago I had another account here, but stopped posting for a while.
When I decided to come back, I couldn't remember my password, and the email I had used didn't work anymore. So I figured I would just created a new account and start over.
It might have been a day later when one of the mods PM'd me, and told me I was breaking forum rules by having 2 aliases. We agreed to close the first account, and keep this one open. That's how the Biebs was born.
When I decided to come back, I couldn't remember my password, and the email I had used didn't work anymore. So I figured I would just created a new account and start over.
It might have been a day later when one of the mods PM'd me, and told me I was breaking forum rules by having 2 aliases. We agreed to close the first account, and keep this one open. That's how the Biebs was born.