A Huge Thank You from CueSports International (CSI)!

[Kid Dynomite]

Too much political allegiance in this thread. It's quite obvious to anyone who's been a member of this forum and in the pool world. We get it. Somebody you know and love has been slighted, so let's attack anything and anybody associated with that slight.

All's fair in love and war, but in pool, it's an all-out war to the very end.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

Sadly,

It takes this kind of carnage to bring about change! Sorry, Obama I stole your one liner about "change." Yes, I left the statement intentionally vague. Posters here are constantly trying to change public opinion to their side and win the never ending debate on the topic. Difference is some place very little value to the merit of the argument and more on the legacy of those involved. This type of logic insinuates that some people are infallible and we all know "no one' is perfect!

KD

Kd

 

[Spimp13]

I have no idea who Shoreboy is. But you guys should at least be aware that Ozzy has a brother in law who

A. Was a key behind-the-scenes person helping with and promoting the Action Pool Tour.

B. is from the VA shore

C. moved out to Vegas and is now working for CSI

Again, I don't know. But being a little more circumspect here would not be unreasonable...

Mike, I am not really a betting man but I would be willing to take out a 2nd mortgage and let it ride that Shoreboy was not his brother posting. Let me know, window is open, the bank closes at 5, and my credit is good.

 

[watchez]

Ozzy actually called me yesterday - he said I could post that we talked so I am not being out of line here. He wanted to explain his side of #breakgate so I listened. I have always had a respect for Mark Griffin and a good relationship with him. I don't always agree with him but I might not agree with Cleary that the Browns are the greatest team on earth but we can still remain friends.

That being said, Ozzy stated to me his use of the word 'intentional' in his posts here (the ones under CSI-Ozzy). He said that Sky (and his backer) were the only ones unwilling to compromise and that in such made his action intentional. My response was - "what compromise did he or CSI make?" The answer is none. So I am still lost how he can damn Sky for any wrong doing here for not wanting to compromise either.

Mark told me he put lights up at Good Timez to help with the Big Truck stream. Someone on here tried to put up a calendar of events of when each of the streams was announced. Well if Big Truck announced his stream after CSI, why did Mark still put the lights up. It had to be before -- unless there is something I am missing.

Ozzy asked me how I would have handled it. I told him I hadn't thought about that but would. Here is what would have happened - if all the players didn't agree to a break time and also remember they had to start earlier in the day than planned, I would have went to Ray BigTruck. Rays stream would have gone on as planned. I would have asked Ray to mention the CSI challenge match sponsors, even out graphics up on his stream, free of charge. I would have told Ray that if the CSI stream is way below money expectations than Ray could do a stream at a later date for CSI for free. Maybe like the Texas BCAPL finals or something like that since Ray lives in Texas I believe. Again, Ray is to take ownership for some of this cause he should have looked to see if there was a conflict.

Beyond all of that - this would have never happened if I was in Ozzy/Mark position cause I don't get into competition. I'll toot my own horn that I run a very successful tour for Golden Tee. It is successful for a lot of reasons but one is that I told myself from the beginning I would never try to compete with someone else in any method. In fact, I go out of my way to make other tournaments and events look good. I have even added their events to my email newsletters. My hope is that some local person to the area will go to another GT tourney, have a great time and than seek out me and come to one of my events. But more importantly, it doesn't make me look negative in the slightest. I have enough issues with that generally speaking. . And that is what happened here - Ozzy took it personal, worried about competition and what it would do to his event. In the end, it did much more harm than good. Even if Ozzy was right in threatening Sky - which he is not - enough people would spin it as such the negative would still be there. Something negative will cost you more business than anything positive you do. The best is to keep it all positive from a PR perspective and be upset behind closed doors.

 

[Keith Jawahir]

And another thing, nobody -- and I mean NOBODY, not one member of this forum -- can predict what may happen when a pool event is in progress. It is impossible to have every single thing covered that is thrown your way. You have to make an executive decision and move forward. It's a time-sensitive industry when a tournament is in progress.

You don't like the decision, well, that's too f***ing bad. I can't tell you how many bad calls I've witnessed from a referee in a pool tournament, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

This tournament industry business is not a perfect science. It's one thing to defend your friends and loved ones, but when you do it at the expense of knocking down good men in this pool world, it's not really helping anybody. It's just ends up, well, like this thread.

So... you're joining us in condemning CSI's strongarming?

 

[watchez]

Too much political allegiance in this thread. It's quite obvious to anyone who's been a member of this forum and in the pool world. We get it. Somebody you know and love has been slighted, so let's attack anything and anybody associated with that slight.

All's fair in love and war, but in pool, it's an all-out war to the very end.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

JAM - how many times have you told the story of Keith at the U.S. Open, steam rolling everyone until play ended for the day. Then he came back the next day and lost. How many times have you stated that if the tournament didn't end for the day that Keith would have won the tournament? I mean according to Jay Helfert, that shouldn't have effected a top player like Keith. Oh wait it did.

So go ahead and tell me that a 3 hour break each day couldn't effect a gambling match with 20k on the line. Tell me that Sky didn't have a legitimate reason to not want to pause his match. Tell me what's fair in love and war.

 

[JCIN]

I have no idea who Shoreboy is. But you guys should at least be aware that Ozzy has a brother in law who

A. Was a key behind-the-scenes person helping with and promoting the Action Pool Tour.

B. is from the VA shore

C. moved out to Vegas and is now working for CSI

Again, I don't know. But being a little more circumspect here would not be unreasonable...

Considering this happened I would say I was correct.

View attachment 393302

 

[ideologist]

Considering this happened I would say I was correct.

View attachment 393302

Circumspection delivered

 

[JAM]

JAM - how many times have you told the story of Keith at the U.S. Open, steam rolling everyone until play ended for the day. Then he came back the next day and lost. How many times have you stated that if the tournament didn't end for the day that Keith would have won the tournament? I mean according to Jay Helfert, that shouldn't have effected a top player like Keith. Oh wait it did.

So go ahead and tell me that a 3 hour break each day couldn't effect a gambling match with 20k on the line. Tell me that Sky didn't have a legitimate reason to not want to pause his match. Tell me what's fair in love and war.

Have you ever heard of the Serenity Prayer, Watchez?

Let's compare apples to apples, though. Keith played pool from 8 in the morning until 4 a.m. the next morning. He had to be at the Chesapeake Conference center at 11 a.m. to prepare for her 12 noon hotseat match with Jeremy Jones. He had little sleep when we returned to our hotel room. I woke him at 10 a.m. to get dressed. While I was downstairs getting him breakfast, he was so hungry that he couldn't wait for me to return. He had sour food in our fridge that was in our room. The electricity went out that week due to Tropical Storm Isabel, and Keith made a sandwich with bad mayo and bad processed meat. Within minutes, he was throwing up in the bathroom and had other associated food poisoning symptoms. We go to the Chesapeake Conference Center, and at this time, sad to say for Keith, the beer stands weren't opened yet. He did manage to wolf down a couple hot beers in the parking lot, thanks to Eric. He lost both his matches that morning. It had NOTHING to do with a break in him playing pool. He was sick from food poisoning and lack of sleep. Older folks need a few hours when they wake up to get nimble and in stroke. This day did not afford that to Keith.

And it's "affected," not "effected," as you have in your post. :grin:

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Considering this happened I would say I was correct.

View attachment 393302

CheckMate!!!

Well, played sir!

KD

 

[(((Satori)))]

Ozzy actually called me yesterday - he said I could post that we talked so I am not being out of line here. He wanted to explain his side of #breakgate so I listened. I have always had a respect for Mark Griffin and a good relationship with him. I don't always agree with him but I might not agree with Cleary that the Browns are the greatest team on earth but we can still remain friends.

That being said, Ozzy stated to me his use of the word 'intentional' in his posts here (the ones under CSI-Ozzy). He said that Sky (and his backer) were the only ones unwilling to compromise and that in such made his action intentional. My response was - "what compromise did he or CSI make?" The answer is none. So I am still lost how he can damn Sky for any wrong doing here for not wanting to compromise either.

Mark told me he put lights up at Good Timez to help with the Big Truck stream. Someone on here tried to put up a calendar of events of when each of the streams was announced. Well if Big Truck announced his stream after CSI, why did Mark still put the lights up. It had to be before -- unless there is something I am missing.

Ozzy asked me how I would have handled it. I told him I hadn't thought about that but would. Here is what would have happened - if all the players didn't agree to a break time and also remember they had to start earlier in the day than planned, I would have went to Ray BigTruck. Rays stream would have gone on as planned. I would have asked Ray to mention the CSI challenge match sponsors, even out graphics up on his stream, free of charge. I would have told Ray that if the CSI stream is way below money expectations than Ray could do a stream at a later date for CSI for free. Maybe like the Texas BCAPL finals or something like that since Ray lives in Texas I believe. Again, Ray is to take ownership for some of this cause he should have looked to see if there was a conflict.

Beyond all of that - this would have never happened if I was in Ozzy/Mark position cause I don't get into competition. I'll toot my own horn that I run a very successful tour for Golden Tee. It is successful for a lot of reasons but one is that I told myself from the beginning I would never try to compete with someone else in any method. In fact, I go out of my way to make other tournaments and events look good. I have even added their events to my email newsletters. My hope is that some local person to the area will go to another GT tourney, have a great time and than seek out me and come to one of my events. But more importantly, it doesn't make me look negative in the slightest. I have enough issues with that generally speaking. . And that is what happened here - Ozzy took it personal, worried about competition and what it would do to his event. In the end, it did much more harm than good. Even if Ozzy was right in threatening Sky - which he is not - enough people would spin it as such the negative would still be there. Something negative will cost you more business than anything positive you do. The best is to keep it all positive from a PR perspective and be upset behind closed doors.

lol,

I am imagining you telling Ray that if YOUR ppv did not reach YOUR expectations then he will need to work for you for free.

 

[JAM]

Do you recognize anybody?

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Have you ever heard of the Serenity Prayer, Watchez?

Let's compare apples to apples, though. Keith played pool from 8 in the morning until 4 a.m. the next morning. He had to be at the Chesapeake Conference center at 11 a.m. to prepare for her 12 noon hotseat match with Jeremy Jones. He had little sleep when we returned to our hotel room. I woke him at 10 a.m. to get dressed. While I was downstairs getting him breakfast, he was so hungry that he couldn't wait for me to return. He had sour food in our fridge that was in our room. The electricity went out that week due to Tropical Storm Isabel, and Keith made a sandwich with bad mayo and bad processed meat. Within minutes, he was throwing up in the bathroom and had other associated food poisoning symptoms. We go to the Chesapeake Conference Center, and at this time, sad to say for Keith, the beer stands weren't opened yet. He did manage to wolf down a couple hot beers in the parking lot, thanks to Eric. He lost both his matches that morning. It had NOTHING to do with a break in him playing pool. He was sick from food poisoning and lack of sleep. Older folks need a few hours when they wake up to get nimble and in stroke. This day did not afford that to Keith.

And it's "affected," not "effected," as you have in your post. :grin:

Wait, what? That just sounds like bad decision making to me.

 

[JAM]

Wait, what? That just sounds like bad decision making to me.

Sure, it does. Playing competitive pool for 20 hours isn't easy for anyone. If he had gotten knocked out of the tournament, the day would have ended early, but he didn't. He made it to the final day, semifinals.

In case you weren't around at that time, there was a Tropical Storm in Virgina. EVERYBODY lost power for 2 days. Saturday's matches were run back-to-back to catch up. Three days of tournament matches in one day is what happened. Decision-making? No. But nobody fools with Mother Nature and wins.

 

[watchez]

Have you ever heard of the Serenity Prayer, Watchez?

Let's compare apples to apples, though. Keith played pool from 8 in the morning until 4 a.m. the next morning. He had to be at the Chesapeake Conference center at 11 a.m. to prepare for her 12 noon hotseat match with Jeremy Jones. He had little sleep when we returned to our hotel room. I woke him at 10 a.m. to get dressed. While I was downstairs getting him breakfast, he was so hungry that he couldn't wait for me to return. He had sour food in our fridge that was in our room. The electricity went out that week due to Tropical Storm Isabel, and Keith made a sandwich with bad mayo and bad processed meat. Within minutes, he was throwing up in the bathroom and had other associated food poisoning symptoms. We go to the Chesapeake Conference Center, and at this time, sad to say for Keith, the beer stands weren't opened yet. He did manage to wolf down a couple hot beers in the parking lot, thanks to Eric. He lost both his matches that morning. It had NOTHING to do with a break in him playing pool. He was sick from food poisoning and lack of sleep. Older folks need a few hours when they wake up to get nimble and in stroke. This day did not afford that to Keith.

And it's "affected," not "effected," as you have in your post. :grin:

I don't have the energy to find your previous posts on this subject but they are there. I'm sorry that besides coming out of his gear from the night before, Keith was also effected and affected by food in his fridge.

 

[TATE]

While being honest is generally admirable when at fault, you need to show a certain amount of humility to go with it. I think Ozzy and his clone, while honest, lack remorse and explaining what they planned on doing in the future should this event arise. They should acknowledge the opportunity cost of the assigned Mosconi Cup points were a motivating factor not just encouragement. That's $10k(USA stopped winning), exposure on the highest level, and a chance to represent your country.

If I was Matchroom, I'd take my points away for a year or two and then let CSI feel the impact of a strong arming. They won't get the same names without the Points attached to the events or the same fan fare that goes with it. That might smarten them up some.

If I'm CSI I wouldn't hold firm to this rigid stance they've taken, I'd admit guilt and say how they plan on getting better in the future. Action provides a means of supplemental income especially for these high level players. It's like a side job for an electrician or something, same craft different check. These guys are independent contractors, unless CSI wants to start hiring players to non-compete with their events they have to be as accommodating as possible. Yes Sky makes your product better on bar tables as he's one of the best on that table in all games. That's a mutually beneficial relationship.

Figure your shit out CSI, this won't fly too long. Everyone messes up, important thing is just to figure out when you messed up and then try to be better in the future. You can't change the past but you can put systems in place to prevent these incidents in the future. Even if it's something to the players that lets them know in advance what the penalty is.

I am very impressed with your thinking on this, Mikey. If Ozzy were to have said something like "in retrospect, I probably overreacted" it would have helped with the humility aspect a lot and we wouldn't be here right now.

However, putting this in perspective, this was a one-time faux paus committed by a hired manager, not Mark who is the principal. Hopefully the good that will come out of it will be CSI will handle their relations better in the future.

 

[watchez]

lol,

I am imagining you telling Ray that if YOUR ppv did not reach YOUR expectations then he will need to work for you for free.

About as obscure as telling Sky or Oscar that they have to put further risk on the 20k they are playing for over the same reason.

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Sure, it does. Playing competitive pool for 20 hours isn't easy for anyone. If he had gotten knocked out of the tournament, the day would have ended early, but he didn't. He made it to the final day, semifinals.

In case you weren't around at that time, there was a Tropical Storm in Virgina. EVERYBODYH lost power for 2 days. Saturday's matches were run back-to-back to catch up. Decision-making? No. But nobody fools with Mother Nature and wins.

he was so hungry that he couldn't wait for me to return. He had sour food in our fridge that was in our room. The electricity went out that week due to Tropical Storm Isabel, and Keith made a sandwich with bad mayo and bad processed meat. Within minutes, he was throwing up in the bathroom and had other associated food poisoning symptoms. We go to the Chesapeake Conference Center, and at this time, sad to say for Keith, the beer stands weren't opened yet. He did manage to wolf down a couple hot beers in the parking lot

 

[JAM]

I don't have the energy to find your previous posts on this subject but they are there. I'm sorry that besides coming out of his gear from the night before, Keith was also effected and affected by food in his fridge.

Steve, he played pool for 20 frigging hours. When we got back to the room, he was so wound up, he couldn't sleep right away. Pool balls were dancing in his head while he was trying to go to sleep.

It wasn't a 3-hour break, like what you're saying happened here. His 47-year-old body gave out after playing pool for 20 hours, and he didn't have enough time to recharge with rest and food.

If they had played the finals the night before, he would have won. Ask Billy Incardona. He was there. He spanked Jose Parica on the TV table that night, and the next day, Jose ran over Keith like Mack truck. :embarrassed2:

 

[JAM]

he was so hungry that he couldn't wait for me to return. He had sour food in our fridge that was in our room. The electricity went out that week due to Tropical Storm Isabel, and Keith made a sandwich with bad mayo and bad processed meat. Within minutes, he was throwing up in the bathroom and had other associated food poisoning symptoms. We go to the Chesapeake Conference Center, and at this time, sad to say for Keith, the beer stands weren't opened yet. He did manage to wolf down a couple hot beers in the parking lot

Man, what's your point? You've been tail-gating me on this thread ever since I started posting in it.

Never mind. I think I get it now.

 

[Neil]

Considering this happened I would say I was correct.

View attachment 393302

So this is your way of saying "thanks for making my dream of TAR come true at least for a little while, because without you, there would never have been a TAR, and without you, there isn't one now. Enjoyed it while it lasted. Most people never do have their dreams come true even for a little while. Thanks again for making mine come true and letting me have those memories!"

Funny, it sure seems to sound like "You took away my gravy train, so I'm going to see what I can do to hurt you."

Nothing like slamming doors and burning bridges along the way. Let's just hope that Mark and Ozzy aren't as vindictive as some on here are. Without them, what is left for pool? Everyone talks about pool being in the dumps, so let's all jump on the one guy that is still doing something good for pool, and at a cost to him. No profit in it. Nice move, guys!

As far as giving Matchroom points to someone else, just who would that someone else even be? Charlie Williams??