Even if reached and statute of limitations in place, do you really think he'd admit it? I don't...
A little Christmas present to everyone, challenge of champions video
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Even if reached and statute of limitations in place, do you really think he'd admit it? I don't...
I think it would be a real short conversation. prob 2 words, the last one being 'you'.
j powell thanks for posting those.
i walk away from the videos and this thread with a couple of thoughts.
the first is i think the dump was horrible. mike din't play horribly but should have been beat flat. buddy missing that combo makes my stomach churn.
for me this was definately a point that pool took a slide and made it hard to be credible. having vegas make a game a bookable event won't make or break the game, but having vegas not want to touch the game because of the fix being in (or reportedly being in) sure hurts the game significantly. if they had played clean and things proceeded differently, who knows were the game would be now. might be different, might not. but there's no way to tell because it happened the way it happened. i like to think that with vegas behind pool, and no black eye for out right cheating there might be more big tournaments and better prize money. but that's just my wishes, and we all know what they say about wishing in one hand and shitting in the other. i definately think that with todays players the danger of the same thing happening is just as likely.
and i have no problem with having heros or people you look up to. the problem i have is when you idolize to the point of near god like status. then you're bound to be let down.
j.b. - do know what thread jay put the reference in? i'm on spotty internet and looking stuff up is rough. if not i can find it when i get back home. thanks.
i walk away from the videos and this thread with a couple of thoughts.
the first is i think the dump was horrible. mike din't play horribly but should have been beat flat. buddy missing that combo makes my stomach churn.
for me this was definately a point that pool took a slide and made it hard to be credible. having vegas make a game a bookable event won't make or break the game, but having vegas not want to touch the game because of the fix being in (or reportedly being in) sure hurts the game significantly. if they had played clean and things proceeded differently, who knows were the game would be now. might be different, might not. but there's no way to tell because it happened the way it happened. i like to think that with vegas behind pool, and no black eye for out right cheating there might be more big tournaments and better prize money. but that's just my wishes, and we all know what they say about wishing in one hand and shitting in the other. i definately think that with todays players the danger of the same thing happening is just as likely.
and i have no problem with having heros or people you look up to. the problem i have is when you idolize to the point of near god like status. then you're bound to be let down.
j.b. - do know what thread jay put the reference in? i'm on spotty internet and looking stuff up is rough. if not i can find it when i get back home. thanks.
I've watched the DVD and really the only two shots that seemed bad are the 8-ball miss and the combo miss. Besides those two shots, Buddy didn't make any obvious misses (although it did look like he was trying to hook himself and scratch on purpose at times). Mike did get out when left with a shot and generally played pretty well throughout the match.
One question was, what if Buddy made the 9-ball on the break? In rack 3, Buddy made the 9-ball on the break and it was spotted, so I'm guessing it didn't count on the break.
The DVD has about half of the games in the match since ESPN just skipped some of the games, but from what I saw, it wasn't completely obvious to me that Buddy was dumping. Only those two shots I mentioned are really questionable.
One question was, what if Buddy made the 9-ball on the break? In rack 3, Buddy made the 9-ball on the break and it was spotted, so I'm guessing it didn't count on the break.
The DVD has about half of the games in the match since ESPN just skipped some of the games, but from what I saw, it wasn't completely obvious to me that Buddy was dumping. Only those two shots I mentioned are really questionable.
40k if people were wondering how much the casinos lost. Here's Jay's post.
So basically, ... that's 5k each if it's an 8-way dump.
I can see the appeal of guaranteed 5k vs a shot at 50k, but if I shot as good as buddy did in 1992, I personally would take a stab at it unless I was living in my car or something.
Jay Helfert said:
So basically, ... that's 5k each if it's an 8-way dump.
I can see the appeal of guaranteed 5k vs a shot at 50k, but if I shot as good as buddy did in 1992, I personally would take a stab at it unless I was living in my car or something.
Mark i agree 100%, i thought for awile just maybe this dump didnt really happen, with the score being 8-8 and Buddy breaking the last rack (buddy hit that break very hard and good), Buddy scratched on purpose with the 1ball, he tried to get himself safe after shooting the 6ball (behind the 8 or 9) this is the worst thing i ever seen in pool, look at their faces, their faces will tell you all you need to know, I really liked Lebron and Hall ,after seeing this i cant say that no more! They should be ashamed of their selfs!
That's not necessarily true.
In Major League Baseball, betting on the games is THE major no-no, trumping steroid use. MLB will ban a player from participating in professional baseball for being caught gambling on it's games. Thus, the loss of that income is a FAR bigger deterrent than the fact that they make more money than pool players do. Pete Rose is STILL not allowed to be employed in professional baseball, in any manner.
There is no governing body for professional pool, and no fear of any sort of retribution or loss of chances to participate. That is the biggest reason these dumps and savers exist. No fear of being caught, and no fear of retribution if they were. This match, and the reason we're all talking about it, proves the point quite well. This wasn't exactly a secret within the industry, if many of the posts are to be believed. Yet those 8 players continued to play and some are considered to be among the best who ever played the game...
Thank you very much for showing this disgrace of pool by two great pool players, they deserve for everybody to see this, something like this should never be forgotten and they should pay for this the rest of their pool playing carears, That way just maybe no fools will ever attemped something like this ever again, MEERY CHRISTMAS AND THANK YOU AGAIN!
Buddy was probably thinking dang I wish I would leave him better.
Just a quick point. A saver is not the same as a dump. A saver is simply when two competitors agree to make the prize distribution a little more equitable but they don't agree on who will win.
A dump is an agreement on who will win.
Nothing wrong with savers ethically imo.
Dumps on the other hand are immoral and stinky.
You beat me to it John, couldn't agree more.... Savers are a business decision, dumping is a question of morals.
Or fake a heart attack!:grin-square:
blackballed, now that is funny, probably accurate, but funny.
Originally Posted by pwd72s View Post
Even if reached and statute of limitations in place, do you really think he'd admit it? I don't...
I
think it would be a real short conversation. prob 2 words, the last one being 'you'.
Originally Posted by pwd72s View Post
Even if reached and statute of limitations in place, do you really think he'd admit it? I don't...
I
think it would be a real short conversation. prob 2 words, the last one being 'you'.
This conspiracy dump is a not a good thing but I doubt it had much to do with the fortunes of pool, one way or the other. These guys probably thought, "It's Vegas money, we're only stealing from people that do the same thing to Joe Public everyday." It was stupid, short sighted, and most of them probably regret it. But it, from many accounts, actually happened and is there for everyone to see.