a question for Freddy the Beard

[lfigueroa]

Reread your post #2!

As I wrote in one of the PMs about this, this was an old argument. and I didn't expect to get drawn in, since I didn't ask the question. But I did figure that if Freddy went into the shot, he was going to get flamed, by others. Hence the fire extinguishers reference. I'm not sure how you can turn that into an attack on his cred. People disagree here all the time.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I know this started as a ques. to "the beard" but feel its turned into a "can you give scientific and video" proof thread. Just wanted to thank you both for all of the incredible and entertaining stories, insights, and bits of pool knowledge that yous graciously pass along for anyone to enjoy and learn from. Just read "Pool Wars" and finished "Banking with the Beard" this summer. AWESOME stories guys!!!!!! Thanks again for all of the insights yous give; MUCH APPRECIATED!!

One day when the economy turns I will make the Derby again (made 06-08) and hope to have the chance to shake hands with you legends and maybe a cool adult beverage. Josh Coffin, master of oneinarow with ball in hand (sometimes!)

(recently on As the World Turns) I don't think anyone was demanding Freddy come up with equations and high speed video. It was a question on how wrist turn affects a shot. Freddy has made claims about this technique in the past, which, don't add up. He doesn't want to splain the shot because he believes one thing and *a lot* of people believe something else about the shot. That's it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Book smart and street stupid.

Or, in some cases, just plain stupid

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

...and this little piggy went WEI-WEI-WEI, all the way home.

Beard

As an aside, The AZ Filter Boy stopped Mr 3Cush, (Billy Smith) cold in his tracks on 1pkt.org when Billy started to open up on some of the secrets he learned from Ernie Presto, the man who spent thousands taking lessons from the masters, Willie Hoppe, Jake Schaefer Jr, Johnny Layton, and Welker Cochran. Mr 3cush make the unforgiveable mistake of mentioning using a "short" stroke on a certain hit.

He stopped himself in his tracks. He was talking about a short stroke doing something and I pointed out that the CB doesn't care if you use a short or long stroke and that the issue was more one of tip speed. I never said the technique did not work and even said it probably did. In fact, I've been playing around with it lately and it does work -- but because of tip speed, not the length of the stroke. So thanks, Bill.

But just like you, when challenged just a tiny bit, he clammed up. Here in St. Louis, a few years ago I had a discussion with the late Harry Sims about ascending and descending strokes, and it was very illuminating. I think even Harry got a little something out of the talk. But at least he was open minded when it came to talking about his ideas and theories. And he was happy to discuss and demonstrate what and why he believed what he believed. It seems to me that you (and Bill) could actually learn something if you threw some of these ideas on the table and participated in a discussion of them. But you (and apparently Bill) want to claim infallibility. Sorry, some of us choose not to sign up for that.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Somehow Lou brings out the best in me.

You are welcome.

Lou Figueroa
I think

 

[lfigueroa]

This thread started off crummy and is turning good. Jay, I want to know that spot shot!!! That would be very useful. Then you said you could make them both in your pocket?!?!

Jay, you shouldn't allow this shot to be openly discussed like this. It might give Freddy the wrong idea ;-)

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Wow. 2 Friends references in back to back posts. And here I thought Lou wasn't adding much to AZ.

lol.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I have no doubt you can Jay. I'm just trying to figure out your way of making it. I also tried caroming into the 2nd ball, but that didn't work so good for me.

STOP THIS SHOT DISCUSSION! IT IS VERBOTEN!

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Party pooper

Now he's gone and done it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Please wait until you are willing and able to contribute something positive before posting. Thanks.

I just read your post a couple of times (just to make sure I didn't miss anything of value ;-) and all I can say is: right back at you.

By the way, you sound like you'd enjoy being a member of the AZ Taliban. I hear they're taking sign ups right about now. See Al.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

If it's on page 138 of Byrne's Treasury of Trick Shots in Pool and Billiards, it's a double kiss.

Knocker

Lou Figueroa
hi, Bob
how you been?

 

[JoeW]

A man who is not able to express himself eloquently is no less wise as evidenced by Forest Gump, Karl Childers in "Sling Blade," and Raymond in "Rain Man." These are good stories that suggest that everyone has a story to tell. Sometimes we just need to listen closely.

Oh -- and I would suggest that it would not be wise to tick off Karl ! Hmm Hm and that is all I have to say about that!

 

[Luxury]

Neil, I know you play good, but I will bet you that on your table (or any table) I can make that shot twice as many times as you. We each take ten tries and you go first. Now if I show you how to make it all bets are off. Once you see it the first time, it won't be hard for you to learn how to do it just as good as me.

I went and worked on it and found a clever way to make the second ball with ball in hand, without touching the first ball, straight into the pocket with no rails. I would bet that I could make it 10 out of 10 tries.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I went and worked on it and found a clever way to make the second ball with ball in hand, without touching the first ball, straight into the pocket with no rails. I would bet that I could make it 10 out of 10 tries.

I can think of four ways to make the second spotted ball straight in (as in one pocket):

Jump shot -- Mike Massey likes to demo this.

Carom with follow -- you kind of "herd" the second ball towards the pocket after shooting the front ball to the side with a nearly full shot.

Intentional skid -- either gaffed or not. I've made it once without the gaff.

Poke it in with your stick on the follow through in a close cluster shot.

 

[freddy the beard]

That's what he says...

A man who is not able to express himself eloquently is no less wise as evidenced by Forest Gump, Karl Childers in "Sling Blade," and Raymond in "Rain Man." These are good stories that suggest that everyone has a story to tell. Sometimes we just need to listen closely.

Oh -- and I would suggest that it would not be wise to tick off Karl ! Hmm Hm and that is all I have to say about that!

Who says I cant explain it? Lou? I never said I couldnt. What I have always said is I dont like being bullied into releasing. I have always done the opposite of what people tried to get me to do. That is the sociopath in me.

Beard
Joe, I know youre trying to be helpful, but the comparisons possibly linked to me are brutal. Rain man? Forest Gump? Sheez. How about Albert Einstein? Up until 1920 nobody knew what he was talking about either. (No, I am really not that vain)

 

[CrossSideLarry]

I believe I know how the science works.

I'm going to give the science guys something to ponder on right now. I learned a shot from Buddy about 25 years ago, and I still have no idea how it works. But it does. He showed me two balls frozen together with a third ball frozen on the bottom of the second ball. This last ball was also frozen on the rail. These three balls were about a diamond away from the corner pocket. Now he shot straight on at the first ball and made the ball come backwards into the corner pocket! HELLO! What just happened?

Jay: I saw "Indian Joe" make a variation of this shot at Frick's Bar in Midland, Michigan about twenty years ago. He managed to get about every railbird in the place to give him odds on it being impossible (myself included)

After he drilled the shot on the first try, he made another bet that no one in the house could come within ten inches of making the ball and this time he gave odds. No one took the bet!

I belive what I witnessed was a perfect example of what you are saying. One thing is for certain, that shot is probably known to a very few number of pool players and has probably not been seen very often. I would like to know how much money Indian Joe made during his life shooting it?

Cross-Side-Larry

 

[CrossSideLarry]

I'm going to give the science guys something to ponder on right now. I learned a shot from Buddy about 25 years ago, and I still have no idea how it works. But it does. He showed me two balls frozen together with a third ball frozen on the bottom of the second ball. This last ball was also frozen on the rail. These three balls were about a diamond away from the corner pocket. Now he shot straight on at the first ball and made the ball come backwards into the corner pocket! HELLO! What just happened?

Jay: I saw "Indian Joe" make a variation of this shot at Frick's Bar in Midland, Michigan about twenty years ago. He managed to get about every railbird in the place to give him odds on it being impossible (myself included)

After he drilled the shot on the first try, he made another bet that no one in the house could come within ten inches of making the ball and this time he gave odds. No one took the bet!

I belive what I witnessed was a perfect example of what you are saying. One thing is for certain, that shot is probably known to a very few number of pool players and has probably not been seen very often. I would like to know how much money Indian Joe made during his life shooting it?

Cross-Side-Larry

After watching the video of Jay's three frozen balls shot, the shot I saw Indian Joe make is not at all similar. Sorry about that!

Cross-Side-Larry

 

[dabarbr]

After all these years Frank, I'm going to have to show you too!

I'm always willing to learn something new. Show me at the Swanee. Merry Chrstmas to all!!

 

[JoeW]

Who says I cant explain it? Lou? I never said I couldnt. What I have always said is I dont like being bullied into releasing. I have always done the opposite of what people tried to get me to do. That is the sociopath in me.

Beard
Joe, I know youre trying to be helpful, but the comparisons possibly linked to me are brutal. Rain man? Forest Gump? Sheez. How about Albert Einstein? Up until 1920 nobody knew what he was talking about either. (No, I am really not that vain)

My apologies, I was not comparing you or anyone else to any of these people. I was suggesting that you can't judge a book by its cover. :sorry:

BTW your books have their own elequoence in the way you set the stage and describe techniques, at least in my opinion. Yes I have them and I have studied (not read) them.

 

[freddy the beard]

Just kidding, Joe

My apologies, I was not comparing you or anyone else to any of these people. I was sugesting that you can't judge a book by its cover. :sorry:

Just barking, Joe. You know how much I love my sarcasm.

Beard