A word on warpage

pescadoman

pescadoman

Randy
Silver Member
I couldn't sleep this morning so I wrote this. I was going to post this next to the cue case at our local pool hall and would appreciate your opinions.

A Few Words On Warpage



When a cue warps it is normally the OWNER'S FAULT:

Custom cue makers go to great lengths to ensure that your cue never warps. This can include taking

8 or more cuts on a shaft over the course of 6 months(some even more) to ensure movement never

occurs. Many will also use sealers to help keep the water(yes there is water in your cue)

content consistent throughout the life of the cue.


Wood WILL move if you don't take care of your cue properly. Next time you are at Home Depot,

have a look at ends of various pieces of Douglas Fir(cut and processed ASAP because of demand) and

notice how many are split at the end or simply not straight. This is because as the wood ages it dries

faster out of the endgrain than other portions of the lumber and why you would see a wax coating on

ends of more expensive wood(like ebony) at a store like Woodcraft. You should NEVER leave your

cue in your car. This is the easiest way to ensure your cue sees an untimely death and the reason it no

longer rolls flat.....anywhere. Remember, your cue contains water, metal, and most likely a few other

materials. Temperature changes the dimensions of every element that resides in your cue and each

reacts differently. Heat makes things expand and cold makes them contract. You can't escape this fact

so don't make a science experiment out of your cue.



This is why very few makers warranty against warpage. I know everyone hates knowing that their

cue is “warped”, but a slight “warp” is nothing to be concerned about. I'm not saying you should

“expect” your cue to warp, only rationalizing that, even with the best of care, some can occur and it

is nothing to worry about.
 
Randy,

I have been full coring all most all of my cues for over 5 years.

Since doing so, life in the no warp world has been good.

Rick

IMG_3207-1.jpg
 
scdiveteam said:
Randy,

I have been full coring all most all of my cues for over 5 years.

Since doing so, life in the no warp world has been good.

Rick
Click to expand...

I was referring mainly to shafts, but I followed your posts regarding full core and plan on doing that myself.

I do remember however, a story about Chris Hightower that involved several butts that were left in his car in Vegas...:(
 
pescadoman said:
I was referring mainly to shafts, but I followed your posts regarding full core and plan on doing that myself.

I do remember however, a story about Chris Hightower that involved several butts that were left in his car in Vegas...:(
Click to expand...

Imo centering is half the job.
Real world seasoning in SoCal works for me.
Somehow, the tighter the grain, the longer it is for wood to season IMHO.
I've finally come to a conclusion, 4 years is the minimum seasoning length for maple dowels to become shafts for me.
 
On shafts, on agree with Joe. At least 4 years of seasoning. The more the time the better.

Ernie at Gina Cue is a minimum of 10 years.

A harmful thing to do is to store a cue vertical on an out side wall in the winter. Cold on one side, heat on the other side.

Rick
 
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pescadoman said:
I was referring mainly to shafts, but I followed your posts regarding full core and plan on doing that myself.

I do remember however, a story about Chris Hightower that involved several butts that were left in his car in Vegas...:(
Click to expand...

I remember that story about butts left in the car in Vegas, Chris also said that the one or two that didnt warp were cored butts. Not that I would wat to put a cue to the test but there is something to be said about stability and coring.

Shafts on the other hand, you can take all the time to season, cut slower that a snail with broken legs and let them sit at finished size (ready for sand) for another two years. If the owner lets them sit in the car for a few hours on a hot summer day, warpage in immenent, shaft wood cant withstand that kind of heat, they might get lucky once or twice but sooner rather than later it will happen.
 
Russell Cues said:
I remember that story about butts left in the car in Vegas, Chris also said that the one or two that didnt warp were cored butts. Not that I would wat to put a cue to the test but there is something to be said about stability and coring.

Shafts on the other hand, you can take all the time to season, cut slower that a snail with broken legs and let them sit at finished size (ready for sand) for another two years. If the owner lets them sit in the car for a few hours on a hot summer day, warpage in immenent, shaft wood cant withstand that kind of heat, they might get lucky once or twice but sooner rather than later it will happen.
Click to expand...

I thought the only one that didn't warp was a Spain.

Kelly <going to look it up...couldn't find it...maybe Chris can repeat the story>
 
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If a properly seasoned shaft warps after exposure to a different environment, such as a hot car, just give it a chance to go back to its happy place which is straight. If you have a cue sitting vertcally in a rack on an outside wall in winter and it ends up being damaged, your heating system needs a lot of work.
 
There's a science to it. Researching how lumber is dried & processed, as well as the effects of turning a tree into dry lumber, would give folks a lot of base knowledge on the subject & take away a lot of the mystique. Even then you're only half way there. Making shafts is infinitely more complex than making lumber. It's all about stress & moisture, nothing to do with age. Learn what causes the stress, how & when to relieve it & when to just trash it, and signs to watch for that give indication of how stable the wood is. The sooner you can get the wood stable, the sooner it can be used as shafts that will stay straight.

One of the two major factors of this is moisture. This is where "seasoning" comes in to play. Most builders understand that something about time makes the shafts more stable. It's moisture. The wood must be purged of all it's own residual moisture, and then equalize with the environmental relative humidity. During this exchange, a lot of the wood will warp, twist, etc. due to stress that is caused from the exchange. It's not unlike a wet t-shirt. As it dries, it shrinks, causing it to curl up & harden, putting the fibers under stress because they are bonded together & some shrink more than others or get harder than others. This where warp comes from. By taking thin cuts over years, you are relieving the stress a little at a time while at the same time the wood is exchanging residual moisture with relative humidity moisture. Basically you are relieving stress as it is created. Even still, it's not a sure thing. You throw away the stuff that won't stabilize & keep those that eventually stay straight. Grain alignment, center, & straightness all play a role as well.

Learning how & why things happen will allow you to create a method that works best for you. Me cutting shafts here in NM isn't going to be the same as Mike Webb cutting shafts in Rhode Island. We both have to have a method that works for our individual shops. Rather than just adopting a method that somebody claims works well for them, learn how & why wood reacts the way it does & then you can create your own specific method.
 
qbilder said:
There's a science to it. Researching how lumber is dried & processed, as well as the effects of turning a tree into dry lumber, would give folks a lot of base knowledge on the subject & take away a lot of the mystique. Even then you're only half way there. Making shafts is infinitely more complex than making lumber. It's all about stress & moisture, nothing to do with age. Learn what causes the stress, how & when to relieve it & when to just trash it, and signs to watch for that give indication of how stable the wood is. The sooner you can get the wood stable, the sooner it can be used as shafts that will stay straight.

One of the two major factors of this is moisture. This is where "seasoning" comes in to play. Most builders understand that something about time makes the shafts more stable. It's moisture. The wood must be purged of all it's own residual moisture, and then equalize with the environmental relative humidity. During this exchange, a lot of the wood will warp, twist, etc. due to stress that is caused from the exchange. It's not unlike a wet t-shirt. As it dries, it shrinks, causing it to curl up & harden, putting the fibers under stress because they are bonded together & some shrink more than others or get harder than others. This where warp comes from. By taking thin cuts over years, you are relieving the stress a little at a time while at the same time the wood is exchanging residual moisture with relative humidity moisture. Basically you are relieving stress as it is created. Even still, it's not a sure thing. You throw away the stuff that won't stabilize & keep those that eventually stay straight. Grain alignment, center, & straightness all play a role as well.

Learning how & why things happen will allow you to create a method that works best for you. Me cutting shafts here in NM isn't going to be the same as Mike Webb cutting shafts in Rhode Island. We both have to have a method that works for our individual shops. Rather than just adopting a method that somebody claims works well for them, learn how & why wood reacts the way it does & then you can create your own specific method.
Click to expand...
Very well explanation!!
 
qbilder said:
There's a science to it. Researching how lumber is dried & processed, as well as the effects of turning a tree into dry lumber, would give folks a lot of base knowledge on the subject & take away a lot of the mystique. Even then you're only half way there. Making shafts is infinitely more complex than making lumber. It's all about stress & moisture, nothing to do with age. Learn what causes the stress, how & when to relieve it & when to just trash it, and signs to watch for that give indication of how stable the wood is. The sooner you can get the wood stable, the sooner it can be used as shafts that will stay straight.

One of the two major factors of this is moisture. This is where "seasoning" comes in to play. Most builders understand that something about time makes the shafts more stable. It's moisture. The wood must be purged of all it's own residual moisture, and then equalize with the environmental relative humidity. During this exchange, a lot of the wood will warp, twist, etc. due to stress that is caused from the exchange. It's not unlike a wet t-shirt. As it dries, it shrinks, causing it to curl up & harden, putting the fibers under stress because they are bonded together & some shrink more than others or get harder than others. This where warp comes from. By taking thin cuts over years, you are relieving the stress a little at a time while at the same time the wood is exchanging residual moisture with relative humidity moisture. Basically you are relieving stress as it is created. Even still, it's not a sure thing. You throw away the stuff that won't stabilize & keep those that eventually stay straight. Grain alignment, center, & straightness all play a role as well.

Learning how & why things happen will allow you to create a method that works best for you. Me cutting shafts here in NM isn't going to be the same as Mike Webb cutting shafts in Rhode Island. We both have to have a method that works for our individual shops. Rather than just adopting a method that somebody claims works well for them, learn how & why wood reacts the way it does & then you can create your own specific method.
Click to expand...

I wrote this for players to read at my local pool hall. Almost everyone here knows more than I do, but I was trying to put in layman's terms basically what you described so eloquently.

I was looking for critique on how well I explained it to someone who thinks their world has come to an end because they can see some light under their cue when they roll it:grin:
 
pescadoman said:
I wrote this for players to read at my local pool hall. Almost everyone here knows more than I do, but I was trying to put in layman's terms basically what you described so eloquently.

I was looking for critique on how well I explained it to someone who thinks their world has come to an end because they can see some light under their cue when they roll it:grin:
Click to expand...

There'll always be those who don't or won't understand. Unfortunately, our target market is pool players. And with that you get a load of scoundrels mixed with good folks mixed with absolute trash, and they all talk & communicate as peers. The low lifes tell everybody how their cue isn't worth crap because it has a little warp, and of course even though most people should be smart enough to know better & would never believe anything that low life says, they believe him on this. I don't know why but they do. And before you know it, it's gospel. The low life ends up buying the cue for pennies on the dollar & now that he owns it, it's worth gold and that warp is now only "taper roll" that doesn't affect value at all.

Sorry to break it down like that but it's unfortunately how things work in the pool room.
 
Burton Spain

Hi,

I grew up in Chicago in the 50s and 60s and had the pleasure of knowing Burton as an acquaintance at The Campus Room on Sheridan Rd. and Chris's Billiards. I could have bought a fancy cue from him at the time for $ 225.00. I chose a Joss West instead for $ 250.00 because Wendell Weir & Joey Gold played with one. What ever decision I made was a winner!!!

Burton was a very smart serious guy and was all about the full splice construction. He explained to me and my friend Harry that the glued structure of the FS was far superior to the A-Joint method of joining woods because of the stability produced from the increased glued surface area in the prong geometry.

At the time I did not even understand what an A-Joint was or where it was in the cue.

At any rate, Burton's cues where and are awesome and I am not surprised to learn his cue was the one that did not warp in the trunk.

IMO, Burton, Bill Stroud and DPK where the guys that raised the bar in modern cue making. There where many others and I don't wish to dismiss anyone but these guys where my favorites during my lifetime and their work inspired me to become a cue maker when I grew up or should I say if I ever grow up. :bow-down:

Rick G
 
Cue butt warpage

I acquired a cue a many years ago, and unfortunately, it has a very minor roll at the joint. The cue is an "unknown maker", and until last week while watching a few ebay cues, I had never seen another like it. The cue on ebay was in very,very rough condition, "drug through the creek", in my opinion. Nonetheless, the cue had the original ivory ferrel, cortland wrap, and the seller pulled the item within a few minutes of the end of auction, and the price had gotten up to $300, and was going up quickly! My same cue is in very good condition, but the joint roll, really disturbs me. Is there any hope for my cue? I'd be more than happy to pay for this repair, assuming it can be repaired! I will attach pics for all to see. Also, Greg Howard has had this cue in his hands, and had a few ideas, but nothing concrete!
 
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pescadoman,

The points you made in the sign to place by your cue case make sense.

However, I think the tone you used is almost attacking the customers, and could alienate some of them. I'd suggest rephrasing what you wrote from the angle of "this is how to care for your new personal cue for years of enjoyment" as opposed to the way it reads now which to me is "its your fault if the cue warps because the cue maker did everything perfectly when he made the cue"

I'm not a cuemaker, but am giving my 2 cents from the perspective of a customer.

Best regards.
 
Nice...

scdiveteam said:
IMO, Burton, Bill Stroud and DPK where the guys that raised the bar in modern cue making. There where many others and I don't wish to dismiss anyone but these guys where my favorites during my lifetime and their work inspired me to become a cue maker when I grew up or should I say if I ever grow up. :bow-down:

Rick G
Click to expand...

Nice...and your mention of Joe Gold too...

Warpage is something that worries us all, I talked to a big time collector, had a 5-6K cue in his collection, not played with for a decade, stored properly, in a case and controlled environment...and it was warped (well just one shaft) anyway...wood is natural and it is NOT ALWAYS the customer's fault, the great cuemakers out there will do their best to not only season out the lumber and to cut it down properly to minimize the potential of warpage and maximize stability, BUT it is the greats that select the right wood from the start to work with too.
 
Russell Cues said:
I remember that story about butts left in the car in Vegas, Chris also said that the one or two that didnt warp were cored butts. Not that I would wat to put a cue to the test but there is something to be said about stability and coring.

Shafts on the other hand, you can take all the time to season, cut slower that a snail with broken legs and let them sit at finished size (ready for sand) for another two years. If the owner lets them sit in the car for a few hours on a hot summer day, warpage in immenent, shaft wood cant withstand that kind of heat, they might get lucky once or twice but sooner rather than later it will happen.
Click to expand...
The one that didn't warp was not cored, but was made from a Burton Spain Full Splice blank. That was mid 1990s.
 
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paulybatz said:
Nice...and your mention of Joe Gold too...

Warpage is something that worries us all, I talked to a big time collector, had a 5-6K cue in his collection, not played with for a decade, stored properly, in a case and controlled environment...and it was warped (well just one shaft) anyway...wood is natural and it is NOT ALWAYS the customer's fault, the great cuemakers out there will do their best to not only season out the lumber and to cut it down properly to minimize the potential of warpage and maximize stability, BUT it is the greats that select the right wood from the start to work with too.
Click to expand...

1. I've never been terribly diplomatic, but maybe this time

2. Yes it isn't always the customer's fault...stuff happens. The article was to reinforce the fact that mistreatment typically gets punished..
 
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