I don't know but it sure as hell is something to argue about.... LOL
All around best american player??
- Thread starter tony semona
- Start date
I don't know but it sure as hell is something to argue about.... LOL
I'd say that person is a great straight pool player. However, I'd love to know of someone who could get up and play straight pool ten times a year and be able to run over 100 half of the time.
I remember when Archer played in the world straight pool tournament a few years ago and his high run over many matches was really low. I recall something like in the 30's. Now maybe he was having an off week, but that is really bad for someone of that caliber.
At the straight pool challenge at Derby, you had several tries over several days, but to my recollection nobody ran over 200. If I recall, a score of 150 was very good. If you ran over 100, you had a good chance of making the 2nd round.
I watched Thorstan Hohman take four tries at the challenge and he could not get into the 2nd rack. My point being that it is not always easy, even for the great players.
J-Man,
Do you honestly think I would contest you without already doing this?? I've talked to several from the era and some of the peers of these two men. Guess what....they all have a different opinion then you..!!
Are you kidding me? How many World Championships has Sigel won and in what disciplines? Please answer this question..and then compare it to Nick's list of World Champions...
Nick Varner has won several World Championships in every discipline in pocket billiards!!! Not only did he win them, but he did it in different decades, for years and years. Mike Sigel played pool for a short time and retired at a relatively young age..then came back and couldn't run out a rack of 8 ball...!! LOL...Get serious!!
Another factoid for you...Nick beat Sigel and Hubbard Inc. in Dayton back in the late 70s!! He beat Mike playing 9 ball on a tight table cause Mike couldn't hit the pocket like Nick did!!
Also, one year in the early 90s (91 or 92) Nick won something like 13 out of 16 pro tournaments!!
Finally, I believe Nick was the 1st player to win over 100,000 in tournament winnings!!
I understand Sigel was a great player, but it is outlandish to think he was better than Nick in all disciplines!! Also, Jay, if Mike Sigel was such a champion in all games...Why the hell did he quit playing pool?? Maybe he got a little weak in the chest?? I don't know...I'm asking.
Many have said it is tough to judge the past, and they are right. So, I'd like to bet that right now, Nick Varner will beat Mike Sigel in an all around. They are both old and washed up...but if this could go down I'd bet really, really high on Nick.
Mike Sigel won the World 14.1 Championship in 1979, 1981 and 1985.
He won the World 9 ball Championship in 1985 as well as the U.S. Open 9 ball championship in 1976, 1980 and 1983 not to mention many other major titles. In the decade of the 80's alone he won something like 35 or 40 major titles.
While Sigel was playing (1975-1993) he won more titles than any other player in that time, by quite a margin too. My memory of those days is that Sigel was The Man. He was simply a winning machine.
You seemed to be consumed by hatred of him. Why don't you just let it go and move on with your life? John didn't say anything bad about Larry initially in this thread. He implied that some people might confuse power with skill, but that's about it. After that, you went nuts on him and started saying a lot of bad things.
And all you are doing is entertaining John, really. You call him all sorts of names, then he replies with a humorous jab at you or Larry, then you get even angrier and do the same thing, then he replies with another humorous jab, etc. It's like an endless cycle. Just forget about it and move on, dude.
tony semona
cuetip
hey jay, donnie anderson told me clem also lost to taylor at 1 hole getting weight.
Thanks Tony, I never heard about that. Although Clem never played quite as well after his stint in the lock-up. His prime years were the same time as Rags, the 50's. I heard he is still alive, somewhere in Vegas playing cards. He would be in his 80's now.
I'd like to know who told you that. Names please. I'm gonna ask them myself. Nick did have that one big year where he won eleven titles and over 100K. He was Player of the Year that year. I think it was 1989. His only POY, while Sigel won several times.
In their era there were many tournaments to be won, and very few were considered World Championships. In those days, the major championships would usually have a full filed of 64 players, with most of the top guys entered. Tournaments like the Sands, the Rak 'em Up Classic, Caesars Tahoe and Palace, Reds, Classic Cup, Ohio Open and many more. Sigel won more of these tournaments than Nicky did, a lot more. He is credited with 38 major titles in the 80's alone. How many more he won in the 70's and even the early 90's I don't know. I found where he was credited with 102 titles. Did you know that Mike won eleven times in a row when he reached a final! No one could beat him at the end.
Yes,, Mike never did play well after he retired and tried to come back. And I would agree that Nick could beat him today. But for a good 15+ years he reigned on the tournament circuit, along with Buddy and Earl. He retired in his early 40's, mainly because he felt like he could make a better living doing something else, like making and selling cues. I remember sitting at the Chicago airport with him in the mid 80's after he won the Classic Cup. First place was $6,000. He was lamenting the fact that he just won $6,000 and a golfer won $50,000 the same day. Little did he know it would get worse and not better.
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Duplicate post??
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At the SBE they had a similar type of challenge. The only one who ran over 200 was....anyone want to take a guess?
There were many very good players in the era. Sigel, Earl, Buddy, Miz, Nick, Hopkins and Rempe head the list. I would rank Nicky fourth overall here, maybe just ahead of Hopkins. In the 70's, the Miz was still the Man, but when Earl came along all that started to change. In the 70's Mizerak and Buddy were the two top dogs, along with Sigel and Varner coming up fast. Buddy and Nick had the longest careers as champions. Buddy from the early 70's to the early 2000's. Nick from the late 70's to mid 2000's.
The tournaments were just as hard to win back then. In a 64 player field you might have 40-50 very good players. Those mentioned above plus guys like Mataya, Little David, Jeff Carter, Ray Martin, Mike Massey, Keith, Grady, Louie Roberts, Lebron, Lisciotti, Efren and Jose, Kim, Hubbart, Fusco, Bell, Bollman and many more good ones. A shortstop like me was at the bottom of the field. I remember going two and two in several tournaments I played in, sometimes getting into the money. That was about it for me.
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Nothing against my favorite player Nick Varner, but Sigel has won over 100 legitimate tier one titles (where every top player plays). That's more than anyone by a long margin.
They include titles in 9-ball, 8-ball, 14.1 and One-Pocket. Yes, Mike Sigel has championships in one pocket. I'm sure someone can find a bank tournament he's won.
Mike was the dominant player in the 70's and 80's and still won tournaments as a part-timer in the early 90's
It was 1989.
Actually, Mike Sigel was the first to win over 100K in a year. Nick was the second. In the year that Sigel won over 100K in tournament winnings, the 100th ranked golfer also had won over 100K in golfing tournament winnings. Brutal and sick.
It's not outlandish. I think you just never saw Mike at his prime. Sigel quit pool because he no longer loved it. Mike and Nick were close friends and had three or so business ventures together. While Nick wanted to play pool and practice, Mike wanted to fish.
Fred
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I gotta go with Harold Worst. IMHO
He did become the dominant player in the mid 60's for a short period before he died. Who knows what he would have achieved. He seemed to be getting better every year - at all games!
Be careful Donny. Some day you'll be an old man!
Jays right. We both remember Ronnie in his prime, and trust me,
he was 'da man'.
Hey John, there is a very useful function on AZB called the ignore list. I think Supernova would make a great 1st entry to your list.
Saying 14.1 isn't a game because you don't like it is like saying Italian food isn't really food because it doesn't suit your taste. Everybody on this board can see the ignorance (and I'm being generous by using the word ignorance) in that statement. There is no need to point it out further, and it will only result in more arguments. So put that ignore list to work
Hey John, there is a very useful function on AZB called the ignore list. I think Supernova would make a great 1st entry to your list.
Saying 14.1 isn't a game because you don't like it is like saying Italian food isn't really food because it doesn't suit your taste. Everybody on this board can see the ignorance (and I'm being generous by using the word ignorance) in that statement. There is no need to point it out further, and it will only result in more arguments. So put that ignore list to work
Everybody, huh? What about the people that agree with me that are members of the AZ forums? Chris Bartram agrees with me so I guess he is ignorant too. Larry doesn't post often, but he's on the forums and he agrees with me so there's another ignorant one for ya. What about the people that have given me positive rep for my views on 14.1? And the others in this thread that have agreed with me? Oh yeah, it sure looks like EVERYBODY can see the ignorance.
Please people, think before you post.
Ok..so Sigel won 4 world titles?? Nick has won like 11 and won them over several decades and several disciplines....including 14.1.
Also...Sigel played in way more tournaments than Nick did in the 70s and early 80s. He started digressing in the late 80s and early 90s.
Nick was the better player and had more heart. He never quits or gives up..even to this day.
I would like to see their tournament record and will take 7 to 5 on the money that Nick has beat Sigel at least 50% of the time they played. Can anybody get this information and prove it?