"All Around" Player without One Pocket?
- Thread starter jsp
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I seriously doubt Holmann could get anywhere close to winning a world title in any carom game. Actually, I think you have to be nuts to even suggest the possibility. Have you seen how good carom players play these days? Blomdahl has a hard time winning now and he's as good as anyone who's ever played the game. Sayginer, Jaspers, Forthomme,etc... average 2.0+ for whole tournements sometimes...
Caudron dominates straight rail and balkline and is becoming one of the very best three cushion players but doesn't play pool at any kind of serious level. Only Blomdahl has ever played any kind of pool game at a level that would make people even consider the possiblity of him trying out pool. None of these guys could be considered all round players.
I think Orcullo is the one who can dominate all games if he really applies himself. He ran a 117 in the 14.1 recently and is starting to gamble at one pocket...be afraid, very, very afraid....
Caudron dominates straight rail and balkline and is becoming one of the very best three cushion players but doesn't play pool at any kind of serious level. Only Blomdahl has ever played any kind of pool game at a level that would make people even consider the possiblity of him trying out pool. None of these guys could be considered all round players.
I think Orcullo is the one who can dominate all games if he really applies himself. He ran a 117 in the 14.1 recently and is starting to gamble at one pocket...be afraid, very, very afraid....
The best all around player in the world ever in my opinon was Harold Worst. My grandfather said he could have been the best pool player ever. I know that my opinon of the greatest cueist of today's generation not many people will agree with, but his resume is very impressive and I seen him play a few times.
Torbjorn Blomdahl
1. Many time 3-cushion world champion.
2. In snooker he is a threat to run a century and has achieved a perfect break in practice.
3. Plays 9ball great beat Efren in 9ball exibitions.
4. Has run over 200 balls practicing 14.1
5. Gambled and beat a very well known player at 1pkt getting only money odds. (he plays 1pkt very very well)
6. Plays both American and english 8ball at a very high level.
Flame on
Torbjorn Blomdahl
1. Many time 3-cushion world champion.
2. In snooker he is a threat to run a century and has achieved a perfect break in practice.
3. Plays 9ball great beat Efren in 9ball exibitions.
4. Has run over 200 balls practicing 14.1
5. Gambled and beat a very well known player at 1pkt getting only money odds. (he plays 1pkt very very well)
6. Plays both American and english 8ball at a very high level.
Flame on
All-round player without 1-Pocket??? Not in my book. This may be because 1pkt is my favorite game. Still, my pool heros are all-round players like Varner, Deuel, Orcullo, Reyes and a few others already mentoned.
Just wondering, wasn't Eddie Taylor considered one of the best all-round?
Just wondering, wasn't Eddie Taylor considered one of the best all-round?
8ballEinstein said:
Yes, and how did we all over look Taylor? Good for you in remembering him. I personally think he was the greatest Bank pool player ever. Very strong at 1 pocket also. Decent at 14.1 and 9 ball.
Terry Ardeno said:Blackjack,
As for 9 ball, what major titles does Danny have?
I don't know, but I personally think Daulton has the edge. Unless you guys are thinking that Daulton is not as active as he once was.
QUOTE]
In his very second tournament in mens professional billiards tour Danny harriman was runner up to mike siegal in the tour stop held in maryland in 1993.danny`s first appearence n mens pro tour was in bicycle club invitational.He won the qualifier to play in the pro tour after he was runner up to CJ willey in the california state championships in 1993.
danny did well in 9 ball.shannon was in Mosconi cup and did well in 9 ball.
curiousofpool said:
Thanks Michael. The term "All Around" player originated here in the states over 50 years ago. And it generally refered to players skilled in the most popular games in this country. I am aware that One Pocket and Banks are not popular games anywhere else but here. Surprisingly, even in the Philipines, One Pocket is rarely, if ever played. You would think that with a player like Efren, it would have become popular. NOT!
Maybe now the term All Around player will become more encompassing, to reflect the skills possessed by International stars like Ralf, Thorsten, Dennis and others. In my opinion, any of these great champions could be skilled at One Pocket if they so desired. Even Efren knew little about this game before Freddie and Billy started to school him. He seems to have picked it up okay.
8ballEinstein said:
YES, YES and YES! He belongs on any list of great All Around players. Jam up at 9-Ball, great at One Pocket and only the best ever at Banks (along with Bugs). Most people don't know he was a 100 ball runner at 14.1 as well.
huckster said:
I won't argue with your assertion. This guy is obviously a great player. We just have seen so little of him over here, except playing Three Cushion.
Agreed, Jay
In an earlier post I contended that Dave Matlock has as many all-round skills as virtually anyone here in the USA. Danny H and I have played for years. DH, send me a PM.
I also contend that Danny Harriman is the best 14.1/banks player in the world. Danny and I tried at DCC to get someone to play him a combination of these two games without success. Danny was considered unbeatable.
I love Danny, but in my opinion, Dave has the best all-round game to bet for the dough when you consider his world class bar table/bank/3C skills.
In an earlier post I contended that Dave Matlock has as many all-round skills as virtually anyone here in the USA. Danny H and I have played for years. DH, send me a PM.
I also contend that Danny Harriman is the best 14.1/banks player in the world. Danny and I tried at DCC to get someone to play him a combination of these two games without success. Danny was considered unbeatable.
I love Danny, but in my opinion, Dave has the best all-round game to bet for the dough when you consider his world class bar table/bank/3C skills.
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Long post. Didn't get the point of of everything....
Wimpy was the best at all games for the money.
Wimpy was the best at all games for the money.
Love The Game said:
Not One Pocket. Not even close. 9-Ball and 14.1 you may be right though. I doubt that Mosconi would have played Wimpy Straight Pool for the cash. And I'm sure Wimpy would have loved to play him.
Jay,
Agreed. Really appreciate all you contribute to this forum. When I heard Matlock's interview referencing Jerry Finley, a stone cold gambling champion that died when he was about 20, I was really moved.
I played everyone in MO and considered Matlock the very best for the money on any table....
Agreed. Really appreciate all you contribute to this forum. When I heard Matlock's interview referencing Jerry Finley, a stone cold gambling champion that died when he was about 20, I was really moved.
I played everyone in MO and considered Matlock the very best for the money on any table....
With Dennis beating Corey even in one pocket 5-3, and also with his very respectable finish in the World Straights losing to the eventual champion, maybe you can say that Dennis is the best all around player...after Efren.jsp said:
...and maybe in 3-4 years, you might even possibly say he's the best all around player...period. I'm guessing that we'll be hearing a lot of Orcullo vs. Efren one pocket matches in the years to come.
Really good...
Markus,
I waited a couple of days to comment on this question, since it was addressed to Jay. Perhaps he missed it.
If someone put a gun to my head and I had to come up with my one and only all time favorite player, it would be Luther Lassiter. I personally believe he was the greatest 9 Ball player ever. I can make just as strong a case for Strickland being the best 9 baller ever because when Strickland was winning all those tournaments, the field was deper. But all things being equal, I would still say Lassiter was the better over all player.
Lassiter was a 6 time World 9 Ball Champion (1962, 1963, 1964, 1967,1969 & 1971) He would have won a slew more in the 1950's but there were no 9 ball championships prior to 1962. He also was a 4 time World 14.1 Champion (1963, 1964, 1966, 1967) besides also winning the 1969 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship. He also finished 2nd twice to Steve Mizerak in the 1970 & 1973 U.S. Open 14.1 Championships. In the famous Johnston City World AllAround Championships in the 1960's, Lassiter won the "All-Around" Championship and incredible 4 times (1962, 1963, 1967 & 1969)
Some of his cronies that he beat for these titles were Joe Balsis, Danny DiLiberto, Ed Kelly, Jim Rempe, Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson, Harold Worst, Eddie Taylor, Irving Crane and Ronnie Allen. That's an all time "Murderer's Row" lineup in my book.
Prior to the 1960's, Lassiter was a renowned money player, often traveling with the also great Don Willis. There only 14.1 tournaments in the 1940's and 1950's when Lassiter was in his prime, so there's no telling how many other victories he may have had. He was born on Nov 5, 1918 and died on Oct 25, 1988. Lastly, his number one forte was shotmaking. If you get a chance to watch any of the "Legends" series that were filmed in the 1980's, you can watch him still come with some great shotmaking. The purists will argue that he didn't play patterns right, ala Reyes & Ortmann in 141, but it didn't matter much because he "shot the lights out" anyway.
Marvel said:
Markus,
I waited a couple of days to comment on this question, since it was addressed to Jay. Perhaps he missed it.
If someone put a gun to my head and I had to come up with my one and only all time favorite player, it would be Luther Lassiter. I personally believe he was the greatest 9 Ball player ever. I can make just as strong a case for Strickland being the best 9 baller ever because when Strickland was winning all those tournaments, the field was deper. But all things being equal, I would still say Lassiter was the better over all player.
Lassiter was a 6 time World 9 Ball Champion (1962, 1963, 1964, 1967,1969 & 1971) He would have won a slew more in the 1950's but there were no 9 ball championships prior to 1962. He also was a 4 time World 14.1 Champion (1963, 1964, 1966, 1967) besides also winning the 1969 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship. He also finished 2nd twice to Steve Mizerak in the 1970 & 1973 U.S. Open 14.1 Championships. In the famous Johnston City World AllAround Championships in the 1960's, Lassiter won the "All-Around" Championship and incredible 4 times (1962, 1963, 1967 & 1969)
Some of his cronies that he beat for these titles were Joe Balsis, Danny DiLiberto, Ed Kelly, Jim Rempe, Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson, Harold Worst, Eddie Taylor, Irving Crane and Ronnie Allen. That's an all time "Murderer's Row" lineup in my book.
Prior to the 1960's, Lassiter was a renowned money player, often traveling with the also great Don Willis. There only 14.1 tournaments in the 1940's and 1950's when Lassiter was in his prime, so there's no telling how many other victories he may have had. He was born on Nov 5, 1918 and died on Oct 25, 1988. Lastly, his number one forte was shotmaking. If you get a chance to watch any of the "Legends" series that were filmed in the 1980's, you can watch him still come with some great shotmaking. The purists will argue that he didn't play patterns right, ala Reyes & Ortmann in 141, but it didn't matter much because he "shot the lights out" anyway.
Marvel said:
REAL REAL GOOD! No one wanted to mess with him, even when he was in his 50's. He just didn't miss any balls. Kind of an earlier version of Mike Sigel. But Luther was honed on money games, and he would gamble, and bet the ranch! He was widely and universally respected because he was a tournament champion and a great money player. Not too many like that have come along.
I distinctly remember him sittting in the back room at Jansco's night after night, and nodding out while waiting and hoping for someone to come along and challenge him. One time, Ed Kelly walked in and made an open challenge to anyone to play 9-Ball. Wimpy woke up, and began to stand up. Kelly looked right at him and said "Not you MR. Lassiter".
Only Harold Worst challenged him to a money game after Lassiter beat him in the tournament. It never happened. It might have been the end of an era if it did. Wimpy had reigned supreme in 9-Ball for nearly 20 years. Similar to Efren today in One Pocket. Only his buddies Don Willis and George Rood were a match for him all those years. The other great 9-Ballers of that era had already gotten the Wimpy cure. Don Watson, Jimmy Moore, Detroit Whitey, Shorty, Jersey Red, Cornbread, and U.J. had already seen enough.
I asked U.J. once why he never tried to match up with Lassiter. U.J. said to me and Ronnie, "Why do I want to mess with that man?"
How would he compare with today's top players? I would say he played about Buddy's top speed. And Buddy was the best money player of his era.
Very similar game. Methodical, careful and well planned shots. Precise postion and error free ball making. Lassister's stroke was more reminiscent of Allen Hopkins though. It was short and compact, but he could let it out if he had to, which was rare. He always stayed so close to the ball. Kind of like the way Mosconi played Straight Pool. Close, tight position shot after shot.
I suspect Luther had an influence on Buddy. He plays so much like him. I never asked him that.
