Am I ever going to get the hang of this?

jcommie

jcommie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started playing pool in October of 08, after getting acquainted with my campus. I'm a Freshman @ UIUC, and we have a nifty little rec room with 9 foot brunswick GC III's. Back in Oct, I checked the rec room out, saw the tables, and decided I would try to learn how to play pool out of curiosity. After failing at it (first time playing) for about half an hour, another guy comes up and asks me if I wanna play some 9 ball and split the bill on table time. Needless to say I got owned, but at least he taught me the basics (sorta). After that day, we regularly got together, and he would continue to dominate me.

Problem is, I haven't seen a lot of improvement. Heck, these few weeks, I'm actually playing a lot worse than before. I know I don't practice a lot, since I play on and off of an average of 4 hours a week, but it just seems like im not making progress. I remember pocketing tons of shots by aiming, but my aim has been funky lately, stuff that I feel I aimed right just doesn't work out. Straight shots into pockets turn into unintentional cuts. I reckon it may be because I unintentionally give the cue a "twist" at the end of my stroke when I hit hard, but I've been working on correcting that.

Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a good player, maybe it was all beginners luck when I used to somewhat consistently make cross table banks into corner pockets and all sorts of crazy cuts back in November. Has anyone had this kind of experience where you play great for a month or two, but after correcting your stroke, or fixing stuff that was "wrong" with how you play, you end up sucking more?
 
Be patient
This game takes quite a long time to learn and the process can be very frustrating. I just recently came back after a 10 year layoff and my level of frustration was very high because I knew what I used to be able to do. I kept at it and slowly, but surely snapped back into place....well I'm getting closer anyhow.
 
I would recommend taking a lesson if there is a instructor that is close you and within your budget. If this is not a option for you try going to your school libary and looking for some instuctional books and get more table time in.

I just started taking it seriously about a year ago myself and lessons and reading books and this forum has helped my game alot. Also another great thing to do is watch matches that are available on the internet and try to pick up on patterns.
 
I think we can safely assume that your stroke fundamentals are awful, and that because of it, your practice time does nothing more than reinforce bad habits. Lessons would obviously help, but if you have the budget I had when I was in college, taking lessons is out of the question.

If there are any good shooters in your midst, watch them carefully to see what a good stance and stroke look like and try to copy it. If not, try renting or buying a video of pool or sign up for an internet stream of a tournament.

Don 't spend too much time on it, though. Stay focused on your studies.
 
fsarfino said:
I would recommend taking a lesson if there is a instructor that is close you and within your budget. If this is not a option for you try going to your school libary and looking for some instuctional books and get more table time in.

I just started taking it seriously about a year ago myself and lessons and reading books and this forum has helped my game alot. Also another great thing to do is watch matches that are available on the internet and try to pick up on patterns.
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I agree that the library is a great place to start. When I first started to play I took out every book I could on pool I could find at the library. As a matter of fact I should hit the library again and re-read some and get some I haven't seen. I'm sure a book or two has come out in the 15 years since I've read a book on billiards.
 
Studies are no problem, classes haven't been so bad. I'm the kind that MUST concentrate in class or I'm screwed- but if I do concentrate and pay attention during lecture and review sessions, I seldom need to study. Problem is, there's no one around to give lessons, and I find it a little expensive to pay hundreds of dollars for a day's worth of lessons that may or may not help me.

My stroke has gotten a lot better. I started out with an Efren stroke where my arm would come down and I'd whack the ball so hard every shot was like a break. Now I very occasionally twist the cue a little bit when I shoot too hard and my wrist tries to compensate for the sudden acceleration. Problem now is that at the end of my stroke where my wrist is bend downwards to keep the cue straight when my wrist is so far up front, my tip tends to dip down a little and I end up stunning intended follows and drawing intended stuns. I'm not sure how to correct this because there's no other way to extend the cue that far without breaking my wrist.

My biggest problem is that I'm not a technical player- I pot balls and play position based on muscle memory. If I've made a kind of shot before, I can do it again. Instead of calculating angles, in my mind on, for example a cut shot, it goes something like "So I hit it there and based on what happened before and instinct it should go in. Then the cue ball will go this or that way". Ever since I started watching videos and learning about ghost ball I start missing even though I'm aiming at the technically correct spots. This has pushed me towards the possibility that I'm not cut out for pool.
 
You really need to find someone to set you in the right direction. The first few months are very difficult especially if you don't have anyone to help you out. Stuff happens and you have absolutely no idea why, you aim at one spot and you miss thin, so you aim thicker and you miss thinner somehow. You try to put backspin on the cueball and the bloody thing just stops, you send the cue ball straight in to the rail it @#%@ing takes off in a COMPLETELY different direction!!!

Everyone has been there, believe it or not Efren sucked at pool once upon a time.:smile:

Focus on your alignment and stroke. Find the aiming point on the object ball, draw an imaginary line from that point through the centre of the cue ball past into infiniti. Now, try to place your cue on that line, and follow straight through. If you can manage that, you'll make the ball.

While developing your stroke, try to keep your elbow still. In theory if your elbow remains still your forearm can't do anything but move straight back and straight forward.

Another thing to practice is focusing on the cueball during your follow through until you can consistently hit centre ball.
 
soak up info like a sponge....

jcommie said:
I started playing pool in October of 08, after getting acquainted with my campus. I'm a Freshman @ UIUC, and we have a nifty little rec room with 9 foot brunswick GC III's. Back in Oct, I checked the rec room out, saw the tables, and decided I would try to learn how to play pool out of curiosity. After failing at it (first time playing) for about half an hour, another guy comes up and asks me if I wanna play some 9 ball and split the bill on table time. Needless to say I got owned, but at least he taught me the basics (sorta). After that day, we regularly got together, and he would continue to dominate me.

Problem is, I haven't seen a lot of improvement. Heck, these few weeks, I'm actually playing a lot worse than before. I know I don't practice a lot, since I play on and off of an average of 4 hours a week, but it just seems like im not making progress. I remember pocketing tons of shots by aiming, but my aim has been funky lately, stuff that I feel I aimed right just doesn't work out. Straight shots into pockets turn into unintentional cuts. I reckon it may be because I unintentionally give the cue a "twist" at the end of my stroke when I hit hard, but I've been working on correcting that.

Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a good player, maybe it was all beginners luck when I used to somewhat consistently make cross table banks into corner pockets and all sorts of crazy cuts back in November. Has anyone had this kind of experience where you play great for a month or two, but after correcting your stroke, or fixing stuff that was "wrong" with how you play, you end up sucking more?
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If you do searches on this site, you can find all of the info that you should need.

By some of byrne's books if you can't find a good instructor nearby. Tell the forum where you are at and say that you're looking for an instructor.

There are several great instructors here that sometimes travel and put on clinics. Find one and take a good lesson to get the fundamentals.

Then practice.....practice......practice....../

Then practice some more. Practice on your kitchen table on your mechanics. Grab a friggin couple of tennis balls if you have to, but practice all you can.

Learn as much about the game as you can.....

Then practice some more.....

The key is to get the fundamentals down first. That will make it that much easier to get to your best game.

Jaden.
 
I could have sworn that there's another AZ member who's signature has in it a billiards club at the University of Illinois. It might have been Indiana, but I think it was Illinois. Have you checked that out?

Also, you mentioned not having a few hundred for an afternoon or so of lessons. There are plenty of good instructors out there who will work with you for an hour for $40-$70 or so. If you can't find one in Urbana-Champaign, would you venture up to Chicago for an afternoon?
 
Buy 99 Critical Shots in Pool by Ray Martin and you probably will have to up that 4 hours a week up to at least 10 to make it to "B" player. If that takes too much time away from your studies wait until your out of school to put in the hours to get better, I might be wrong but I don't know of anyone that got good at pool ("B" or better) that only played 4 hours a week. Good luck to you. Johnnyt
 
I am a beginner player, and in no means am I in position to criticize anyone. I'm merely trying to help another fellow shooter. So here it is:

Here is what I did:
I started out by finding pool books they have some available online (PM me on this), pool videos (on youtube), finding a good billiard store (one that specializes in it, not a funrniture shop that sells cues) and good pool halls.

A good beginner book that I like is Willie Mosconi's Winning Pocket Billiard. Or Steve Davis's Successful Snooker.

They all have good instructions on the fundementals. Stance, grip, bridge, form, aim, etc. Don't try to advance too fast, just do straight shots, dead in the middle of the ball, worry about english, draw, follow, all of that later. Stick to the basics! DO NOT advance into other advance techniques until you are confident with your basics.

Practice using drills, learn the shots, shoot the same shot multiple times. I will give you a rough estimate, about 15-30 times, until you are constantly making the shot, shot after shot, keep practicing.

Practice by yourself, don't have someone who wants to just shoot game after game with you. You can never get a good practice that way. Unless you have someone who knows what they are doing to sit there, watch you play, and give you pointers (From what I read in your original post, that would be a no), I'd just go practice by myself. Playing with more advanced players make you better, not people who are not as skillful as you.

Be patient, don't get angry, mad or furious and start cursing the heavens. I understand it happens, but after each shot, think about why you missed or why you made the shot. It you miss, don't get mad, just understand why you miss and move on.

Many people or owners of Pool Hall would be willing to teach you how to shoot if you are willing to learn, never be afraid to ask. Pool halls and billiard supply stores can usually point you in the right direction to find classes and lessons.

I hope this helps you, and I am hoping that you don't give up on this great sport. Good luck and happy shooting.

Chin0
 
chin0 said:
I am a beginner player, and in no means am I in position to criticize anyone. I'm merely trying to help another fellow shooter. So here it is:

Here is what I did:
I started out by finding pool books they have some available online (PM me on this), pool videos (on youtube), finding a good billiard store (one that specializes in it, not a funrniture shop that sells cues) and good pool halls.

A good beginner book that I like is Willie Mosconi's Winning Pocket Billiard. Or Steve Davis's Successful Snooker.

They all have good instructions on the fundementals. Stance, grip, bridge, form, aim, etc. Don't try to advance too fast, just do straight shots, dead in the middle of the ball, worry about english, draw, follow, all of that later. Stick to the basics! DO NOT advance into other advance techniques until you are confident with your basics.

Practice using drills, learn the shots, shoot the same shot multiple times. I will give you a rough estimate, about 15-30 times, until you are constantly making the shot, shot after shot, keep practicing.

Practice by yourself, don't have someone who wants to just shoot game after game with you. You can never get a good practice that way. Unless you have someone who knows what they are doing to sit there, watch you play, and give you pointers (From what I read in your original post, that would be a no), I'd just go practice by myself. Playing with more advanced players make you better, not people who are not as skillful as you.

Be patient, don't get angry, mad or furious and start cursing the heavens. I understand it happens, but after each shot, think about why you missed or why you made the shot. It you miss, don't get mad, just understand why you miss and move on.

Many people or owners of Pool Hall would be willing to teach you how to shoot if you are willing to learn, never be afraid to ask. Pool halls and billiard supply stores can usually point you in the right direction to find classes and lessons.

I hope this helps you, and I am hoping that you don't give up on this great sport. Good luck and happy shooting.

Chin0
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Yes, what he said. YOU CAN DO IT! I've been playing pool for over 20 years and I know exactly what you're talking about, dude. Stay with it. You apparently have been intrigued by this simple, yet strange game. It is something you can do until you die. If you're in college, you have the rest of your life to practice and become great at this game. Just get a good playing stick and get a BCA instructor. That is the absolute first thing you need to do. Not doing so will frustrate you and hurt you more.
 
fellow beginner

jcommie said:
I started playing pool in October of 08, after getting acquainted with my campus. I'm a Freshman @ UIUC, and we have a nifty little rec room with 9 foot brunswick GC III's. Back in Oct, I checked the rec room out, saw the tables, and decided I would try to learn how to play pool out of curiosity. After failing at it (first time playing) for about half an hour, another guy comes up and asks me if I wanna play some 9 ball and split the bill on table time. Needless to say I got owned, but at least he taught me the basics (sorta). After that day, we regularly got together, and he would continue to dominate me.

Problem is, I haven't seen a lot of improvement. Heck, these few weeks, I'm actually playing a lot worse than before. I know I don't practice a lot, since I play on and off of an average of 4 hours a week, but it just seems like im not making progress. I remember pocketing tons of shots by aiming, but my aim has been funky lately, stuff that I feel I aimed right just doesn't work out. Straight shots into pockets turn into unintentional cuts. I reckon it may be because I unintentionally give the cue a "twist" at the end of my stroke when I hit hard, but I've been working on correcting that.

Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a good player, maybe it was all beginners luck when I used to somewhat consistently make cross table banks into corner pockets and all sorts of crazy cuts back in November. Has anyone had this kind of experience where you play great for a month or two, but after correcting your stroke, or fixing stuff that was "wrong" with how you play, you end up sucking more?
Click to expand...

I am also a beginner. I started at age 65. Don't underestimate the complexity of the game. It has so many levels of complexity, one could easily spend a life time on it & still be learning after decades.

Given your limited budget, don't spend a great deal of money on a cue. All of the aesthetics are for collectors & have no function. The shaft is most important. I was fortunate enough to find a store owned by a master pool player with integrity & an interest in helping serious beginners. He let me spend an afternoon trying various cues on his table & I finally purchased a Universal shaft with a cheap Players cue. The Universal shaft goes on the Players cue for playing & the original Players shaft can be used for breaking. You can stick a hard leather tip or phenolic to enhance your break. Again, try both at the store. The phenolic will require patience. Chalk is your best friend.

Browse the pool section of the library or a good pool store before making a purchase. You can also drink a cup of coffee at Barnes & Noble & browse $100s of dollars worth of books for nothing. Byrne or Chappelle provide comprehensive introductory texts. Martin's 99 Critical Shots is also quite useful. I have been told that Mosconi's book was ghost written & he started so young that he could not articulate his technique.

You-Tube permits you to watch the masters & rewind to study technique & position play. If you have Tivo & set it to record "billiards" you will get at least 5 tournaments per day. Again, you can rewind & freeze with your remote. I found Allison Fisher particularly useful to watch. The commentary & diagrams are also useful.

Your limited practice time should be made efficient by practicing drills & resisting the temptation to merely bang the balls around. Although you need to be cautious about getting hustled, pool players are generally fine working class people who will be generous with their knowledge. Playing better players might be demoralizing as they will overwhelm you & frustrate you with their safety plays, but you will learn from the experience.

Professional instruction will shave years off your learning curve. I was fortunate enough to study with Stan Shuffett in Kentucky. He is extremely skilled, scientific in his pedagogy, & if he perceives you as serious, he will treat you with the same respect as he would Efren or Strickland. He also communicates by e-mail after you complete the course & have more questions. His instruction manual is also useful. Check out his website. If you can't get to Kentucky, make sure you find an instructor who meets these criteria. It is best to get recommendations from people who know these instructors.

As arthritis sets in my joints & my vision deteriorates, I am quite envious of you starting young.

The game should be a source of joy & a change of pace which invigorates you for your scholarly work. I have found that, unlike the martial arts & powerlifting, pool is something you can play hard without injury. It also continues to provide a mental challenge.
 
In my experience...

Every time you get ALOT worse....

you are about to get ALOT better..

every slump I have ever had .. I come out the other end better than before...

I think you ride a wave till you learn something new.. then the wave crashes

and you swim around for a while..

then you get a new wave that that reaches higher farther and faster than the one before...

yadda yadda yadda...



getting better means incorporating new things ... that takes time...there has never been an overnight success in pocket billiards... EVER!!!

you learn something you shoot like crap till you digest it.. then it becomes part of your game...

Rinse...

Repeat..

that IS how you get good at pool..

Best of luck to you..
 
If you want to play and get better and are fascinated by the actions of the balls on the table, NOTHING will stop you from getting there. On the other hand, if you are very casual about it, don't pay attention to detail, only play to be social ... NOTHING will make you get much better!:)

For my part, when I first picked up Phil Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool," I couldn't put it down and must have read it back and forth a few times. Same goes for his book on 9 ball ... and a handful of other ones. On the other hand, I have lent these books to a few friends who SEEMED to be taking an interest in the game, and well, I never saw the copies of the book again, or them on the table! So dive in and see how it appeals to you.

If you've ever fallen into dead stroke, where whatever you imagine, for at least a little while, cannot fail, you'll know. And if you can't stand to leave while shooting lousy, then when you start running out, you can't stand to leave because you're shooting well ... and suddenly 6 or 7 hours have gone by, then you'll know that you might be "cut out for pool."
 
jcommie said:
I started playing pool in October of 08, after getting acquainted with my campus. I'm a Freshman @ UIUC, and we have a nifty little rec room with 9 foot brunswick GC III's. Back in Oct, I checked the rec room out, saw the tables, and decided I would try to learn how to play pool out of curiosity. After failing at it (first time playing) for about half an hour, another guy comes up and asks me if I wanna play some 9 ball and split the bill on table time. Needless to say I got owned, but at least he taught me the basics (sorta). After that day, we regularly got together, and he would continue to dominate me.

Problem is, I haven't seen a lot of improvement. Heck, these few weeks, I'm actually playing a lot worse than before. I know I don't practice a lot, since I play on and off of an average of 4 hours a week, but it just seems like im not making progress. I remember pocketing tons of shots by aiming, but my aim has been funky lately, stuff that I feel I aimed right just doesn't work out. Straight shots into pockets turn into unintentional cuts. I reckon it may be because I unintentionally give the cue a "twist" at the end of my stroke when I hit hard, but I've been working on correcting that.

Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a good player, maybe it was all beginners luck when I used to somewhat consistently make cross table banks into corner pockets and all sorts of crazy cuts back in November. Has anyone had this kind of experience where you play great for a month or two, but after correcting your stroke, or fixing stuff that was "wrong" with how you play, you end up sucking more?
Click to expand...

sounds like you're thinking too much. i think scott lee said something ( i can't remember exactly but the jist of it was ) think while you practice, do while you play.

keep hitting 'em around for now and later on check out some accustats (anything with grady mathews doing the commentary) and really listen to what he's saying.
 
Sara Rousey, a pro on the ladies tour, is just down the road a piece in Bloomington, at Ride The Nine. Call her and see what you can do about a lesson there or in Champaign. She posts here. Pm her.

You need to get a start in the right direction and she can do it or she can recommend a player in Champaign/Urbana that can help.
 
This is the some of the best free stuff on the web for snooker instruction.

As others have suggested, the first improvement needed is probably in delivering the cue. Take a look at the third Steve Davis clip, where he suggests using a mirror. The alternative is to set up a video camera and record yourself from front, rear and side. Use frame by frame analysis to check head, grip, delivery, end position of the cue tip, shoulder, elbow and all that good stuff.

Do the drills for straight shooting down the centre of the table until you can get the ball to return to your cue tip consistently, that is, without putting side spin on it.

Understanding Modern Snooker ? Jack Karnehm
Part 1 ? Manufacturing and assembling a snooker table
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v2dQfwYIAw
Part 2 ? Marking, Installing Rails
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE0PQBY6d0Q
Part 3 ? Straight Cueing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sttfG5StNE
Part 4 ? Centre Ball Hit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoTCoCR_Ysk
Part 5 ? Alignment Feet Bridge Hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJfHoXnUIiI
Part 6 ? Cue Hand Bridge Hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8D8ZcWuiGE
Part 7 - Bridge Hand Equipment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwquMHaI5E
Part 8 - Equipment Stance Drill Choosing A Cue Retipping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6vrkz0zvT4
Part 9 - Cues Retipping Draw Shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm6gnu0oioM
Part 10 ? Draw Follow Drag Stun English
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSDhurY1APA
Part 11 - English
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5cAtxVDF2I
Part 12 ? Massee Break Shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg1neRJmXI
Part 13 ? Controlling The Cue Ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYO-Acw1QAU
Part 14 - Cue Ball Control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-dQJfFU6dE
Part 15 ? Cue Ball Control Aiming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWQgCxHLIB4
Part 16 ? Aiming Geography Etiquette
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aayiShDGiEs
Part 17 ? Etiquette Billiards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnVWAMXFsqE
Part 18 ? Billiards Trickshots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9oSAicPbI

Snooker ? Champions Way With Steve Davis
Cues Cueing Aim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8JxEFj2-aw
Aim Exercises Cueing Grip Stance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mwmXqZqdis
Stance Bridge Cueing Action Mirror
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7PLst6aZQ
Cueing Spins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8uzDaJA72k
Spins Positional Play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5A7Ru5buA4
Controlling Cue Ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm89GZQrnHA
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s90yKP45FJ4
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE87mfcEJKM
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3GtPgU8lAY
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sae8MPh-Huo
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vyt2ST3Kyw
Game Strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ8JLnnQdX4
 
I agree with Travis that the Phil Capelle books are great. Start with Play Your Best Pool, and then check out his 8 ball, 9 ball and straight pool books. Bear in mind that the 8 ball book is focused more on playing on bar tables, though.

I think that anyone here who says that they have never gotten really, really frustrated with pool and their slow progress would be lying. Speaking for myself, my progress has been very, very slow, and I also go through periods of anger and frustration. I try to keep the positive attitude and realize that I am playing pool for a distraction and relief from my stressful job and the rigors of being a responsible adult. If pool adds stress instead of taking it away, I'm going to stop playing.

One more thing. I had some buddies who basically failed out of college because they were playing too much pool. Illinois is a great school, and many would kill to trade places with you. The pool world will be out there when you graduate. I don't want to sound preachy or anything, but I strongly advise that you don't let pool (or partying) get in the way of your education.
 
Welcome to our house!

You will find this guy is a wise dude:
sjm said:
I think we can safely assume that your stroke fundamentals are awful, and that because of it, your practice time does nothing more than reinforce bad habits. Lessons would obviously help, but if you have the budget I had when I was in college, taking lessons is out of the question.

If there are any good shooters in your midst, watch them carefully to see what a good stance and stroke look like and try to copy it. If not, try renting or buying a video of pool or sign up for an internet stream of a tournament.

Don 't spend too much time on it, though. Stay focused on your studies.
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