Some people on this website have still got no understanding of this. AMATEUR OR PRO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPEED AT WHICH SOMEONE PLAYS!(contrary to what tour directors will have you believe) It is simply a classification. That is why the Amateur tours are bullshit. Two examples.......... Bobby jones (many people consider the greatest golfer of all time) won all his pro events as an AMATEUR! 2nd exp. All olympic athletes are amateurs and yet they set world records all the time. Meaning they are the best in the world at that event and yet they are amateur. That's why its bullshit to say your too good to play in this amateur event. (because in other sports the amateurs are some of the best in the world). I welcome all responses.
Amateur or Pro has nothing to do with ability
- Thread starter B_White
- Start date
TRue dat.BVal said:
(I see no pic @work)
:deadhorse:
GL Brian.........I get what you are saying but you are spinning your wheels if you think it is gonna change anything. This is the new fad and it is proving to be profitable for the TD's because, face it, there are a lot of people that don't want to draw you in a tournament.
I play in many open events as well but I like these tournaments because I know I don't have to play the best set of my life 2 or 3 times in a row to cash more than 9th-12th.
Daniel
GL Brian.........I get what you are saying but you are spinning your wheels if you think it is gonna change anything. This is the new fad and it is proving to be profitable for the TD's because, face it, there are a lot of people that don't want to draw you in a tournament.
I play in many open events as well but I like these tournaments because I know I don't have to play the best set of my life 2 or 3 times in a row to cash more than 9th-12th.
Daniel
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Ranking status
I'm guessing by your statement you have joined the "masses" that have been told are to good to participate in someones tour. My game sucks so bad I don't have that problem but, IMHO.....this emphasis on Pro vs Amatuer is what is helping destroy pool. There needs to be some way of players being able to decide where they want to play but I don't know what it is! I'm old school.....I believe if you want to play, put your cue together, stand up and go for it.....if not your game NEVER improves. As long as I'm soap boxing.....take the handic apped tournament and throw it as far into thevtrash as possible....continous sandbagging, good old boy ranking etc is BS and does nothing for the game or the player. Whew..I feel better.......have a good one all!
I'm guessing by your statement you have joined the "masses" that have been told are to good to participate in someones tour. My game sucks so bad I don't have that problem but, IMHO.....this emphasis on Pro vs Amatuer is what is helping destroy pool. There needs to be some way of players being able to decide where they want to play but I don't know what it is! I'm old school.....I believe if you want to play, put your cue together, stand up and go for it.....if not your game NEVER improves. As long as I'm soap boxing.....take the handic apped tournament and throw it as far into thevtrash as possible....continous sandbagging, good old boy ranking etc is BS and does nothing for the game or the player. Whew..I feel better.......have a good one all!
BVal said:
And cyclists, and hockeyists...
So if they change the name from Amateur Tour to The Quest Tour you would be okay???
Its just wording. In reality it IS a way of dividing players up into skill groups.
Facts are facts and Quest Tour players spend more money and there is a
notable difference in group sizes. Quest group is probably 10 times the amount of the top groups.
I really don't understand why your that upset about there being more Quest level events. You surely don't think that your allowed to be in them
correct? If your that concerned with Open events going away then ask
yourself why they are reducing. In almost every sport the better you get the less outlets there are to play.
Its just wording. In reality it IS a way of dividing players up into skill groups.
Facts are facts and Quest Tour players spend more money and there is a
notable difference in group sizes. Quest group is probably 10 times the amount of the top groups.
I really don't understand why your that upset about there being more Quest level events. You surely don't think that your allowed to be in them
correct? If your that concerned with Open events going away then ask
yourself why they are reducing. In almost every sport the better you get the less outlets there are to play.
BVal said:
Honestly in todays Amateur scene they are allowed ways to make money.
The Olympics used to be amateur but really only by us. We changed with the times and now allow Pro level athletes to perform in most events.
You are trying to compare the same classifications in different sports, but different sports have different classifications. Amateur and Pro just happen to be 2 classifications in billiards.
I don't know you, have never heard of you, never seen you play, wouldn't know how well you play... but just based on your recent rant about "amateur and pro" levels, and the responses by forum members that know you... I probably wouldn't allow you to participate in any of my events either, not at our "Amateur" level.
What gives? Did you get kicked out of a tournament that you thought you were eligible to play in and "had the nuts" against everyone else?
Please explain...
Zim
I don't know you, have never heard of you, never seen you play, wouldn't know how well you play... but just based on your recent rant about "amateur and pro" levels, and the responses by forum members that know you... I probably wouldn't allow you to participate in any of my events either, not at our "Amateur" level.
What gives? Did you get kicked out of a tournament that you thought you were eligible to play in and "had the nuts" against everyone else?
Please explain...
Zim
Being a professional at anything means that this is how you make a living. Therefore If you are a "Professional you have to enter the events that will make you $$$. US Open, World Summit of Pool etc. This ius where you make your $$ yes you may not be good enough to win so then you have that choice enter or not enter.
Hmmmm....
It would be taboo for Tiger (or any other PGA touring pro) to cherry pick a local mens club tournament.
It is even taboo for a PGA tour pro to cherry pick "PGA Section" events.....(and those are technically professional events)....You must be a Golf Professional (Club Pro and in the PGA Program) and pass a PAT (Player Ability Test) before your allowed to play.
I "expect" it would have been taboo for Andre Agassi or Pete Sampress to show up for local mens club type events as well.
Pool is actually more liberal in that respect (in many cases).....I think in many cases it is actually a draw for the tournament field if Earl or Efren play in the event....
However...I do see some cases where it would be a detrament to the tournament in the long run....and should be "taboo" for those type players to "cherry pick".
It would be taboo for Tiger (or any other PGA touring pro) to cherry pick a local mens club tournament.
It is even taboo for a PGA tour pro to cherry pick "PGA Section" events.....(and those are technically professional events)....You must be a Golf Professional (Club Pro and in the PGA Program) and pass a PAT (Player Ability Test) before your allowed to play.
I "expect" it would have been taboo for Andre Agassi or Pete Sampress to show up for local mens club type events as well.
Pool is actually more liberal in that respect (in many cases).....I think in many cases it is actually a draw for the tournament field if Earl or Efren play in the event....
However...I do see some cases where it would be a detrament to the tournament in the long run....and should be "taboo" for those type players to "cherry pick".
Brian, right now there are:
Rated tournaments that are based on HCP's
Amateur Only Events
Open Events
and Professional/Open events
You fit right into the Open and Pro/Open or HCP event categories.
There are plenty of tournament categories/opportunities (3 of the 4) for you to participate in.
Now, quite your stalling, get on your game and get out there and win a few Pro events.
Mj
Rated tournaments that are based on HCP's
Amateur Only Events
Open Events
and Professional/Open events
You fit right into the Open and Pro/Open or HCP event categories.
There are plenty of tournament categories/opportunities (3 of the 4) for you to participate in.
Now, quite your stalling, get on your game and get out there and win a few Pro events.
Mj
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I agree. throw handicapped tourneys out the window.
On Monday, I played in a tourney that both me and Louis Ulrich were put on the losers side by the same player that we had to give up the eight to. It's not that either or both of us shouldn't have won even giving up the eight, but it just shows that handicapped tourneys make it easy for players to get spots that they probably have no business getting.
Now. playing devil's advocate, there are many players that are just starting to play or are at a certain level that would get discouraged if they felt that they were SOOO outmatched that it just wouldn't make sense for them to play in the tourneys and we won't have as many people playing in the local tourneys.
This is a local weekly tourney though, it's not a small tour event, so I don't know if I would think that the same reasoning applies to small regional tour events. I think it should be open. Hell the people that are playing in regional tour events should feel lucky if they get to draw a top player that plays in their event. Then they should know that they have to play their best, it gives encouragement to play better.
No one complains that they have to play Dan Wallace or Louis Ulrich or Sam Manole or Vic Castro in our weekly tournament.
Although we have a lot of strong players in our weekly tournament and I sometimes feel sorry for the newer players that don't know what they are in for playing in our weekly.
Jaden
Race2-9 said:
On Monday, I played in a tourney that both me and Louis Ulrich were put on the losers side by the same player that we had to give up the eight to. It's not that either or both of us shouldn't have won even giving up the eight, but it just shows that handicapped tourneys make it easy for players to get spots that they probably have no business getting.
Now. playing devil's advocate, there are many players that are just starting to play or are at a certain level that would get discouraged if they felt that they were SOOO outmatched that it just wouldn't make sense for them to play in the tourneys and we won't have as many people playing in the local tourneys.
This is a local weekly tourney though, it's not a small tour event, so I don't know if I would think that the same reasoning applies to small regional tour events. I think it should be open. Hell the people that are playing in regional tour events should feel lucky if they get to draw a top player that plays in their event. Then they should know that they have to play their best, it gives encouragement to play better.
No one complains that they have to play Dan Wallace or Louis Ulrich or Sam Manole or Vic Castro in our weekly tournament.
Although we have a lot of strong players in our weekly tournament and I sometimes feel sorry for the newer players that don't know what they are in for playing in our weekly.
Jaden
We need ONE organization first before we can have a list of who is an amateur and who is a pro. Right now it's you is friends with who. Whe has the name to draw more into the tournament and draw fans to watch.
Someone with money and know how needs to start a tour and say, "this is what MY Tours rules are." If the purses are the largest in the US players will play and follow the rules. The person that starts this tour will be hated by a lot of people, but in the years ahead he will be a hero for saving pro tournament pool. The IPT had a lot of it right. Johnnyt
Someone with money and know how needs to start a tour and say, "this is what MY Tours rules are." If the purses are the largest in the US players will play and follow the rules. The person that starts this tour will be hated by a lot of people, but in the years ahead he will be a hero for saving pro tournament pool. The IPT had a lot of it right. Johnnyt
Big Nasty
Registered
I think Brian and many other player are not mad because they can not play in these tournaments. They are concerned that in a couple of years their will be all amatuer tournaments and only a few open tournaments. It makes sense for the lesser players to want to be more competative but at the same rate there will always be the a class of player which is at the top of amatuer division and will win the majority of these amatuer events. Just like the top players in open tournaments. I guess my point is that if the tournaments are not open to everyone there will always be the arguements about who should or shouldn't be allowed to play. Personally I like the open tournaments because I could care less about watching the finals of any of the amatuer events I have went to.