An American disgrace

[1on1pooltournys]

Like it or not...

The players chosen represent the best we have to offer now. The torch will be passed along soon enough, provided the American pool industry provides the younger generation with opportunities to showcase their talent. These guys (current MC players last few years) are American pool as we know now. Sure you could take a couple out and maybe throw in Corey, Mike D, or a few notable others, but the outcome probably would have been the same. These guys have paid and continue to pay their dues in American cue sports. Some of the young guns mentioned play great pool, but simply put it is a long road to haul before they find themselves on the Mosconi Cup. The current state of our game simply won't allow for it. Europeans are working hard on their game and with good reason. They have opportunities given to them to compete and be rewarded for hard work, not the case here in good ol US of A.

All this discussion about Earl should be thrown out the window. He is who he is, does what he does, and had the shoe been on the other foot here we wouldn't be discussing this. Earl isn't a bad person. He has a competitive fire that burns within him probably more so than any pool player on the planet, and sometimes (due to a mental illness) it shows an ugly face at inappropriate times. This is just how it is. As strange as it may seem, he is probably the most attracting American player to those abroad. One thing about him I'll bet he works harder at his game than any of the other players on that team. SVB is probably a very close second if not in a dead heat, but point being he works hard to be as good as he can be. I would bet Archer practices less than 8 hrs per week.

Point being...this year's MC was just a microcosm of the current state of American Pool. You get back what you put into things. We can't expect to compete and have success on an international level until we are deserving of the reward.

 

[naji]

That's the most extraordinary thing I've ever read on here - and I've paid semi-close attention to Bob Dixon.

In my opinion you cannot quit a team on 1st try, it is just like quit gambling because you lost the 1st game. Common, pool has luck element, even though Europe played better, next time our team will have this ugly defeat on their mind and I bet they will disseminate team Europe next year, watch and see.

 

[jburkm002]

Earl should not play in a team format. Negativity spreads.
If Team USA can't play unless there is more money or they are gambling. Then don't call them TEAM USA.
I was rooting for TEAM USA and it doesn't matter to me that they lost. Losing happens and TEAM EUROPE was strong. I personally enjoyed the format quick play, mic'd players, the break, singles and partners. I don't know how players are picked but maybe they wanted/needed viewership to help American pool. So they went with more recognizable names.
I would certainly watch again.

 

[real bartram]

Yes, the team was correct, they just needed to be trained. I wanted to do extensive training last year, but it's tough when everyone is on all sides of the country.

The Champion players know who is "the real deal" and whom is not. Rodney and Dennis are extremely seasoned and favorites against any other American players (that weren't on this year's team)......Rodney will gamble with anyone if someone wants to put up the money......he can get staked here in Texas and I'm sure he can play in Vegas for a significant amount.

Same goes for Dennis, I would think Mike D. is the only one that may have a good game against Dennis, but his absence from the team was based on his prior year performance. He will be selected again, I'm sure he'd agree that sitting out a year was justified, if nothing else to let him get prepared.

I don't agree that the team was right
Earl is a great player but bad for the team

 

[NYC cue dude]

I don't agree that the team was right
Earl is a great player but bad for the team

And then had the unbridled audacity to say he wouldn't have gone on tilt had his own teammates played better, on an open mic no less. Wtf? Could you ever imagine yourself throwing a teammate under the bus like that Chris? Even if he pissed in your cornflakes, you'd handle it privately.

 

[BeiberLvr]

And then had the unbridled audacity to say he wouldn't have gone on tilt had his own teammates played better, on an open mic no less. Wtf? Could you ever imagine yourself throwing a teammate under the bus like that Chris? Even if he pissed in your cornflakes, you'd handle it privately.

I'm watching all the matches now, and I think my favorite Earl quote so far has to be when he complained how easy the table was when he and Morris were playing Darren and Karl.

Really, Earl? You realize if it plays easy for them, then it plays easy for you as well.

Complaining about how a table plays (as long as it's not really un-level) is something I'll never understand. Whether it's easy or tough shouldn't matter, as it will play the same for either side.

 

[JB Cases]

And then had the unbridled audacity to say he wouldn't have gone on tilt had his own teammates played better, on an open mic no less. Wtf? Could you ever imagine yourself throwing a teammate under the bus like that Chris? Even if he pissed in your cornflakes, you'd handle it privately.

Wow! I missed that. Unreal. I would NEVER play with Earl again after that. The show about him went to his head I think.

 

[AtLarge]

... Complaining about how a table plays (as long as it's not really un-level) is something I'll never understand. Whether it's easy or tough shouldn't matter, as it will play the same for either side.

The logic is that tougher conditions raise the likelihood of the better player winning. So Earl claims to want 10-foot tables with tight pockets, posturing that his superior shooting skills will be better revealed under those conditions.

 

[SakuJack]

7. the cost of living In Europe and Philippines is drastically different! The average filipino single household makes $2500 to $3000 a year in USA currency! So, they can live off alot less money then team usa with average single household in USA of $28,500! I don't know exact figures for European Households as each country reports separately but you get my point!

KD

Niels Feijen just moved to Denmark. The cost of living there is super high - way more than in the US.

Karl Boyes still lives in the UK, I think, and I assume Souqet is based in Germany. Both countries have a higher cost of living than the US.

And of course Darren and Mika are both US based - and have both said the main reason they moved was that it was too tough to make a living from pool when based in Europe.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Good, Bad, Who Knows?"

I don't agree that the team was right
Earl is a great player but bad for the team

"Good, Bad, Who Knows?"

In old India, there lived a King who loves hunting. One day, he went hunting with his great Doctor. While hunting, the King was *****ed by a strange plant on his middle finger. The finger became swollen and painful. The doctor applied a special ointment to the wound and bandage the King's finger.

The King then asked, "Will my finger be alright?"

The Doctor answered, "Good ? Bad ? Who knows ?"

A few days passed and the King's finger became worse. He summoned the doctor and asked, "Will my finger be alright?"

The Doctor answered, "Good ? Bad ? Who knows ?"

A few days later, the King's finger was badly infected and has to be amputated from his hand. The King was furious and ordered the doctor to be jailed and hang in a month's time.

Meanwhile, after a week's of recovery, the King went hunting again. This time he was more unfortunate. He was captured by a cannibal tribe. Before the tribe can burn him as a human sacrifice, the priest noticed he had only nine fingers. It was the tribe's believe that only a person with a full and perfect body can be used as a sacrifice. So they released the King.

Back to the Kingdom, the King immediately ordered the release of the doctor. The doctor was summoned to the King. The King said: "Great doctor, because of you, I lost my finger but in turn, it saves my life."

The Doctor said, "Good ? Bad ? I know. Great King, if not because of you putting me in jail and thus I cannot go hunting with you. If not, I would have been captured by the tribe and used as the sacrifice. Thank you, you save my life !"

 

[rackemup20]

Dechaine didn't play any better, and maybe worse, than the weak players on this year's team. That doesn't sound like a solution. I don't think rankings mean that someone is the best player. Is the European team selected by tournament or league rankings? I doubt it.

2012 team Europe was chosen by rankings!!

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Sounds like a perfect description of yourself.

Yes, Robert, I HAVE gotten out into the rest of the sporting world, haven't I? Then again, you did have a go at commenting on snooker - memorably - so at least you've tried. Bravo, and better luck next time. You'll pick it up eventually.

 

[CreeDo]

"Good, Bad, Who Knows?"

I get it! it's like, all a matter of perspective.
cuz, maybe it was bad earl helped us lose the match.
but also maybe it was good cuz if he weren't on the team he might have run over some pedestrian
in new york while smoking sour diesel weed.
Hidden silver linings in disguise!

No but seriously, we gotta get this horse to the glue factory.

 

[Ken_4fun]

"Good, Bad, Who Knows?"

In old India, there lived a King who loves hunting. One day, he went hunting with his great Doctor. While hunting, the King was *****ed by a strange plant on his middle finger. The finger became swollen and painful. The doctor applied a special ointment to the wound and bandage the King's finger.

The King then asked, "Will my finger be alright?"

The Doctor answered, "Good ? Bad ? Who knows ?"

A few days passed and the King's finger became worse. He summoned the doctor and asked, "Will my finger be alright?"

The Doctor answered, "Good ? Bad ? Who knows ?"

A few days later, the King's finger was badly infected and has to be amputated from his hand. The King was furious and ordered the doctor to be jailed and hang in a month's time.

Meanwhile, after a week's of recovery, the King went hunting again. This time he was more unfortunate. He was captured by a cannibal tribe. Before the tribe can burn him as a human sacrifice, the priest noticed he had only nine fingers. It was the tribe's believe that only a person with a full and perfect body can be used as a sacrifice. So they released the King.

Back to the Kingdom, the King immediately ordered the release of the doctor. The doctor was summoned to the King. The King said: "Great doctor, because of you, I lost my finger but in turn, it saves my life."

The Doctor said, "Good ? Bad ? I know. Great King, if not because of you putting me in jail and thus I cannot go hunting with you. If not, I would have been captured by the tribe and used as the sacrifice. Thank you, you save my life !"

Sometimes its the teacher that needs to learn a lesson.

Ken

 

[CJ Wiley]

there was a Code of Conduct and REAL consequences for bad behavior.

I get it! it's like, all a matter of perspective.
cuz, maybe it was bad earl helped us lose the match.
but also maybe it was good cuz if he weren't on the team he might have run over some pedestrian
in new york while smoking sour diesel weed.
Hidden silver linings in disguise!

No but seriously, we gotta get this horse to the glue factory.

All I know is the worst things that happen sometimes end up being the best things. This doesn't necessarily apply to the Mosconi Cup, I didn't watch one second of it this year....or last year for that matter.

I've said all along that "all we need to change about Pro pool is everything!" - this means total reorganization.

And, yes, when I was the Director of Operations with the Pro PCA Tour there was a Code of Conduct and REAL consequences for bad behavior just like with any other sport....this is a "no brainer". 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[arps]

they could have chosen world #1 Thorsten Hohmann, and maybe Jason Shaw (just for fun), and it would have been the same outcome. We must admit that team Europe is a much stronger team - each traveling and playing consistently in tournaments for the past year. i think the more exposure to different opponents, different tables, different playing conditions (climate, humidity, etc) different timezone, different audience prepares you to battle any time thus making you a more "experienced" player.

 

[Dunnn51]

Sad, but necessary

Well, I just got done watching a bunch of the MC cup matches. I have not read all of the responses here, save the last page here I am typing to add to the thread.

Here is what I got out of it from taking a step back and using some hindsight.......

!- TEAM USA was woefully unprepared. They weren't shooting their best, they weren't ready mentally , and to TEAM EUROPE's credit they were the EXACT opposite. I was not surprised to see this as they had a permanent non-playing coach who was supportive at every turn. Quite frankly, I seen JA giving ra-ra ,and fundamental observations. TEAM usa was a collection of 5 individuals, not a TEAM. (TEAMS have cohesion: they work , live ,eat ,sleep,and face the heat of battle TOGETHER.) <---- Hell, I seen TEAM EUROPE team-mates giving each other shoulder rubs to loosen them up when they thought a player was getting tight in their chair.

2- TEAM USA's over-enthusiasm when there was some hint of positive momentum was a clear "tell" that they were tight, and things were amiss. Keep it quiet - whisper.

3- The lively oration of TEAM USA's players was unprofessional. In hindsight, the swearing and talking to ones-self may have been a result of their frustration. I like Earl, BUT HIS BEHAVIOR WAS OVER THE TOP ! He had no business talking while his opp was shooting. He has no business telling the world how "lucky" a shot his opp made. Earl was playing well though, gotta give him that much, Even when he was B****'in, he made it look easy.

4- TEAM EUROPE was quiet and professional, for the most part, and when they got loud , it was mostly b/c of Earl. :frown:

5 - I honestly don't think Earl should EVER be allowed to play MC again. :angry: he's NOT a TEAM player.

That's my critique: now to offer a few (possible) solutions.

1- I wouldn't make an entire team of PRO players from the gambling ranks. (nothing personal here). Gambling and tournament play requires a different mindset. You don't "get it back later," as with gambling in tournament play. One chance: That's it ! IF you get more than 1, it is because your opp messed up. Seldom happens in tourney play.

2- Pull Tournament players that are short-stop speed and put them in to play. They will handle the pressure just as good as gamblers given the experience factor. They will also fair better from a tactical standpoint. (I think this is why Hatch does well in MC). Would be nice to see Tretault, or Casanzio or peops of that caliber taking a shot which is exactly what the Europeans are currently doing.

3- A sole independent coach, that has the time to coach with the players gathering at set times around the year to practice and bond. This would establish that team cohesion. The current "yahtzee" approach of having an idea who will play in summer, then picking at Haloween is frought with failure.

4- TEAM EUROPE had a plan, and executed that plan to near perfection. KUDOS to them for doing so !! :thumbup:

I have learned a lot from crushing defeat so that it (hopefully) can never happen again.
TEAM USA needs to learn from MC cup 2013,in order to improve and win in the future.

 

[justadub]

All I know is the worst things that happen sometimes end up being the best things. This doesn't necessarily apply to the Mosconi Cup, I didn't watch one second of it this year....or last year for that matter.

You didn't watch a second of it last year, when you were the coach?

 

[oldplayer]

Well, I just got done watching a bunch of the MC cup matches. I have not read all of the responses here, save the last page here I am typing to add to the thread.

Here is what I got out of it from taking a step back and using some hindsight.......

!- TEAM USA was woefully unprepared. They weren't shooting their best, they weren't ready mentally , and to TEAM EUROPE's credit they were the EXACT opposite. I was not surprised to see this as they had a permanent non-playing coach who was supportive at every turn. Quite frankly, I seen JA giving ra-ra ,and fundamental observations. TEAM usa was a collection of 5 individuals, not a TEAM. (TEAMS have cohesion: they work , live ,eat ,sleep,and face the heat of battle TOGETHER.) <---- Hell, I seen TEAM EUROPE team-mates giving each other shoulder rubs to loosen them up when they thought a player was getting tight in their chair.

2- TEAM USA's over-enthusiasm when there was some hint of positive momentum was a clear "tell" that they were tight, and things were amiss. Keep it quiet - whisper.

3- The lively oration of TEAM USA's players was unprofessional. In hindsight, the swearing and talking to ones-self may have been a result of their frustration. I like Earl, BUT HIS BEHAVIOR WAS OVER THE TOP ! He had no business talking while his opp was shooting. He has no business telling the world how "lucky" a shot his opp made. Earl was playing well though, gotta give him that much, Even when he was B****'in, he made it look easy.

4- TEAM EUROPE was quiet and professional, for the most part, and when they got loud , it was mostly b/c of Earl. :frown:

5 - I honestly don't think Earl should EVER be allowed to play MC again. :angry: he's NOT a TEAM player.

That's my critique: now to offer a few (possible) solutions.

1- I wouldn't make an entire team of PRO players from the gambling ranks. (nothing personal here). Gambling and tournament play requires a different mindset. You don't "get it back later," as with gambling in tournament play. One chance: That's it ! IF you get more than 1, it is because your opp messed up. Seldom happens in tourney play.

2- Pull Tournament players that are short-stop speed and put them in to play. They will handle the pressure just as good as gamblers given the experience factor. They will also fair better from a tactical standpoint. (I think this is why Hatch does well in MC). Would be nice to see Tretault, or Casanzio or peops of that caliber taking a shot which is exactly what the Europeans are currently doing.

3- A sole independent coach, that has the time to coach with the players gathering at set times around the year to practice and bond. This would establish that team cohesion. The current "yahtzee" approach of having an idea who will play in summer, then picking at Haloween is frought with failure.

4- TEAM EUROPE had a plan, and executed that plan to near perfection. KUDOS to them for doing so !! :thumbup:

I have learned a lot from crushing defeat so that it (hopefully) can never happen again.
TEAM USA needs to learn from MC cup 2013,in order to improve and win in the future.

my having watched most of the MC, I would say that you nailed it here sir......

 

[HawaiianEye]

Well, I just got done watching a bunch of the MC cup matches. I have not read all of the responses here, save the last page here I am typing to add to the thread.

Here is what I got out of it from taking a step back and using some hindsight.......

!- TEAM USA was woefully unprepared. They weren't shooting their best, they weren't ready mentally , and to TEAM EUROPE's credit they were the EXACT opposite. I was not surprised to see this as they had a permanent non-playing coach who was supportive at every turn. Quite frankly, I seen JA giving ra-ra ,and fundamental observations. TEAM usa was a collection of 5 individuals, not a TEAM. (TEAMS have cohesion: they work , live ,eat ,sleep,and face the heat of battle TOGETHER.) <---- Hell, I seen TEAM EUROPE team-mates giving each other shoulder rubs to loosen them up when they thought a player was getting tight in their chair.

NOW WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION!

I was WONDERING "what" set Earl off! Earl was pissed because he DIDN'T get a back rub from his team boys. Hell, I'd of been pissed off too! LOL!

I don't think these boys needed any back rubs. If you ask me, I think they needed an "ass kicking" from a REAL coach a month or so before the match was even held.

They should have been molded into a "team" LONG before they even got there.

Aloha.