An American disgrace

Earl's behavior brings his own team down. He is embarrassing for America. I hate to see it, having once been a loyal fan. He misses easy shots and then complains the pockets are too generous. It's all too inane for words. He needs professional help. I was glad to see the refs reign him in. Poor Shane has to endure this inanity.. I also saw Shane roll his eyes when directed for position by Rodney. Instructions are seldom needed at this level. One should trust one's team mate to get position his own way most of the time. Hatch seems a bully. I wonder if Shane would flourish with some good guys who were positive and willing to meld as a team. He obviously came from much league success, so we know he can excel at team pool. We need sanity. Congratulations Europe for at least showing us how it should be done.

Alright, here's a team I think would be most interesting....

Landon Shuffet
Hunter Lombardo
Rob Saez
Shane Van Boening
Shannon Daulton as player captain
Chris Bartram as alternate
Danny Diliberto as coach (though he should be announcing for the event)
 
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HawaiianEye said:
Aloha CJ,

You BEAT me to IT!

I was going to ask the SAME question but was trying to figure out how to word it!

What OTHER 5 American players could beat the current USA lineup?

People can sit on here and talk $HIT all day about "XXX would have/could have/may have/etc. done better". I want people to name, BY NAME, the American players who have a PROVEN track record of consistently beating the players that were selected for this team.

Out of our lineup, I would say SVB, Earl, and Johnny are/would be the FAVORITE over almost ANY other US pro playing today. I'm not sure the SAME can be said for Dennis or Rodney.

I'm not blaming the loss totally on the players though. I think the loss was due to a LACK of LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION by "whomever" was considered the "LEADER" of this team.

The team should have been FORCED to stay together/practice together/play together beginning AT LEAST a week (preferably longer) prior to the event being held. They should have had REGULAR practice sessions utilizing all the Mosconi rules on the same type of tables and the breaking restrictions. If the "selected" players were UNABLE/UNWILLING to abide these rules, then they should have been "deselected" LONG before the event began and "new" players selected to replace them.

If the players CAN'T HANDLE "adult supervision", then they maybe should stick TOTALLY to INDIVIDUAL events where they don't need a babysitter.
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This is a team I think would play better in the Mosc cup
Svb
Corey
Mike d
Archer
Last spot could be Oscar or me or Keith Bennett
 
I think Johnny an especially SvB would flourish in a team-environment Europe has. Game of respect. Respect your team, your team-members, the opponents, the ref, the audience, the table, your equipment.. In short respect the game.this will eliminate all distractions and put you on place where you can concentrate on the essentials...ie hitting the damn balls straight.
This is where I see Johan's strength. Let's face it, he can not tell these guys anything about pool they did not already know, but what he can do, and so masterfully does, is to create that environment where the player feels comfortable and can focus on the essentials.
Whether it is small subtle things like posters of the players winning trophies to create a positive vibe, or stepping in mid-match to talk to the ref about Earl's chirping. I am quite sure Daz could have handled it by igniring it, but the point is, he should not have to. All he needed perhaps was to see " ah Johan is on the case and talking to the ref, problem solved, what's next?"
Anywhoooo just my 0.02
 
Kimmo said:
I think Johnny an especially SvB would flourish in a team-environment Europe has. Game of respect. Respect your team, your team-members, the opponents, the ref, the audience, the table, your equipment.. In short respect the game.this will eliminate all distractions and put you on place where you can concentrate on the essentials...ie hitting the damn balls straight.
This is where I see Johan's strength. Let's face it, he can not tell these guys anything about pool they did not already know, but what he can do, and so masterfully does, is to create that environment where the player feels comfortable and can focus on the essentials.
Whether it is small subtle things like posters of the players winning trophies to create a positive vibe, or stepping in mid-match to talk to the ref about Earl's chirping. I am quite sure Daz could have handled it by igniring it, but the point is, he should not have to. All he needed perhaps was to see " ah Johan is on the case and talking to the ref, problem solved, what's next?"
Anywhoooo just my 0.02
Click to expand...

A+

Say what you will but I think that they would have been better off if CJ had been the coach/captain this year.

The Europeans also do have much more experience as team players. You would think that perhaps the Bonus Ball time the US players had this year would have made a difference but it didn't.
 
I don't think there's any disgrace here, quite simply, the far superior team won. Currently the best players in this event are European. Add to that the short races and run of the ball and this result was very possible.

I agree its disappointing that the American team showed so little fight but to call it "a disgrace" is not giving Europe the credit for being what they were, the better team.
 
Americans looked more amateur against Europeans. I watched the entire match and a lot of their decisions were wrong. They are supposed to be top pros, the best of the USA. If all of them will be replaced for next year, then better end the Mosconi cup. it's no contest. It's just embarrassing. And Earl is talking too much nonsense as if he is playing pool in a mental institution.
 
real bartram said:
This is a team I think would play better in the Mosc cup
Svb
Corey
Mike d
Archer
Last spot could be Oscar or me or Keith Bennett
Click to expand...

Keith Bennett is a killer. I bet that guy would hold up great under the pressure. Same for Bartrum! Oscar is also a great choice.

KMRUNOUT
 
Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I think Johnny an especially SvB would flourish in a team-environment Europe has. Game of respect. Respect your team, your team-members, the opponents, the ref, the audience, the table, your equipment.. In short respect the game.this will eliminate all distractions and put you on place where you can concentrate on the essentials...ie hitting the damn balls straight.
This is where I see Johan's strength. Let's face it, he can not tell these guys anything about pool they did not already know, but what he can do, and so masterfully does, is to create that environment where the player feels comfortable and can focus on the essentials.
Whether it is small subtle things like posters of the players winning trophies to create a positive vibe, or stepping in mid-match to talk to the ref about Earl's chirping. I am quite sure Daz could have handled it by igniring it, but the point is, he should not have to. All he needed perhaps was to see " ah Johan is on the case and talking to the ref, problem solved, what's next?"
Anywhoooo just my 0.02
A+

Say what you will but I think that they would have been better off if CJ had been the coach/captain this year.

The Europeans also do have much more experience as team players. You would think that perhaps the Bonus Ball time the US players had this year would have made a difference but it didn't.

There you have it - If the USA are seeking a quick fix for 2014!
CJ - Team Capt.
CJ - to create a positive environment
CJ - to lead by example
CJ - to use his years of experience, knowledge and maturity to analyse players, match ups, rules, conduct and synergy.
CJ - to conduct 3-5 sessions with the team running up to the build up of next years MC.
CJ - to liaise with the like of Diamond Tables, BCA and other experts (didn't want to drop names - I might get them wrong :)
CJ & USA to bring the noise in 2014

"NOT ONLY WILL GEORGE FORMAN FALL, BUT THE MOUNTAINS WILL FALL!"
The Greatest

Or at least - USA would put up a better fight in 2014...
I'll leave you to it :thumbup:
 
real bartram said:
This is a team I think would play better in the Mosc cup
Svb
Corey
Mike d
Archer
Last spot could be Oscar or me or Keith Bennett
Click to expand...

My Keith and I were talking about this last night, and he also agreed that a younger team for USA would be something to consider for next year, if there is one. :(

He mentioned a name "SKYLER," who I'm not sure who that is, but he said young guns like this have fire power and zeal. That's a good mix for Team USA.

A captain with experience doing only captain duties and not playing may also is be a good strategy.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that name in the mix: SKYLER. Who is this kid?
 
real bartram said:
This is a team I think would play better in the Mosc cup
Svb
Corey
Mike d
Archer
Last spot could be Oscar or me or Keith Bennett
Click to expand...

Or a wild card pick of One player over fifty, each team, blind draw pick from a hat. Give em a year to plan and work out to get ready. Rempe works for me, if he's got enough pre planned time.
 
bowiebill said:
None of this years members of the Mosconi cup American team should be allowed to return next year. This is a disgrace.
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Really?

Sometimes a team has its worst weak against another team that has its best ... think PATRIOTS VS GIANTS or COLTS VS JETS ... it happens.
 
I think the USA fielded a great team. If anything was lacking, it was probably motivation and the desire to win.

So, for the 2014 Mosconi Cup, I would hire Lou Holz to captain the team. Get the team together a couple of weeks ahead of time and have daily meetings with motivational speeches by Lou. If he can't do it, then you would know that you definitely are facing a better team.
 
dougster26 said:
I think the USA fielded a great team. If anything was lacking, it was probably motivation and the desire to win.

So, for the 2014 Mosconi Cup, I would hire Lou Holz to captain the team. Get the team together a couple of weeks ahead of time and have daily meetings with motivational speeches by Lou. If he can't do it, then you would know that you definitely are facing a better team.
Click to expand...

These are short races, US Team needed luck nothing else, sure one or two matches Europeans skill dominated. I would keep the same team to give chance for "revenge" to motivate them for next year.
 
naji said:
These are short races, US Team needed luck nothing else, sure one or two matches Europeans skill dominated. I would keep the same team to give chance for "revenge" to motivate them for next year.
Click to expand...

Naji, I must respectfully disagree. There were several members of this year's Team USA who didn't seem to put ALL THEIR EFFORT into the Mosconi Cup. :embarrassed2:

I don't like writing anything negtive on a forum that is filled with hatred and loathing today, the day after the Mosconi Cup ends. It's brutal to read, and I don't like reading it. Some of the comments are unwarranted, and some are definintely right on the money. :(

I observed several areas on the Team USA's makeup this year that were flawed, the most obvious being the team unison. There was none. Compare the way the team members interacted with their captain on Team Europe and Team USA, and it tells the story of the "2013 Mosconi Cup: "The Legends Edition." Legends, indeed. The concept was a good one for the 20th anniversary. Unfortunately, Team USA's legends did not band together.

Say what you want about Earl, as you either love him or hate him, but as far as I'm concerned, he played the best out of all five Team USA members. I don't see how anyone can argue that he did not have the best performance, aside from the so-called "Earlisms" or antics. :p

Johnny Archer, having his family there, this meant a lot to him. It was obvious that he is a proud man to have accomplished as much as he has in the pool world, and for him to want to share this with his family is understandable. I may be wrong, but from what I observed in the audience while he was actively engaged in a match, they may have been a distraction to him. This distraction did not afford him to put 100 percent of his concentration on the task at hand.

As far as consistency, that has to go to Shane Van Boening. Whenever he was in the pit, I was comfortable, win or lose. Yes, he did miss some shots, but he also made some good shots. His dedication to this celebration and his professionalism as a member are noteworthy.

Dennis and Rodney definitely had the spirit of Team USA, but they didn't seem to bring the strength that I know each one of them is capable of. It just seemed like their minds were in other places when they were in the pit. I know they wanted to win, no question, but they did not deliver this year, as they have in previous years.

Is Team USA a disgrace? No. I am sure each member feels like crap today. I am quite sure that Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland may feel the sting the worst. Shane has nothing to feel bad about. He delivered.

In pool, there can only be one winner, and this year, it was Team Europe. Hopefully, Team USA, as Barry Hearn pointed out, will bring it on next year, and I hope they learned from this year's mistakes, because there were many. And in the words of a European by birth, Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Well be back." :grin:
 
What I find most amazing is the bashing of team USA by their fans many talking about the unsportsmanlike manor in which they behaved
practice what you preach ,, tip your hat to the Eruo's they played great and they deserve the credit
This may be a us against them but most of those guys play here and represent the good side of pool in this country and are long time friends of many of our players they deserve to be complemented and our players surly feel bad about losing but what is a bigger disgrace is how their treated in their loss


1
 
JAM said:
My Keith and I were talking about this last night, and he also agreed that a younger team for USA would be something to consider for next year, if there is one. :(

He mentioned a name "SKYLER," who I'm not sure who that is, but he said young guns like this have fire power and zeal. That's a good mix for Team USA.

A captain with experience doing only captain duties and not playing may also is be a good strategy.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that name in the mix: SKYLER. Who is this kid?
Click to expand...

He is good player but I don't think he's quite ready for this stage.
 
JAM said:
Naji, I must respectfully disagree. There were several members of this year's Team USA who didn't seem to put ALL THEIR EFFORT into the Mosconi Cup. :embarrassed2:

I don't like writing anything negtive on a forum that is filled with hatred and loathing today, the day after the Mosconi Cup ends. It's brutal to read, and I don't like reading it. Some of the comments are unwarranted, and some are definintely right on the money. :(

I observed several areas on the Team USA's makeup this year that were flawed, the most obvious being the team unison. There was none. Compare the way the team members interacted with there captain on Team Europe and Team USA, and it tells the story of the "2013 Mosconi Cup: "The Legends Edition." Legends, indeed. The concept was a good one for the 20th anniversary. Unfortunately, Team USA's legends did not band together.

Say what you want about Earl, as you either love him or hate him, but as far as I'm concerned, he played the best out of all five Team USA members. I don't see how anyone can argue that he did not have the best performance, aside from the so-called "Earlisms" or antics. :p

Johnny Archer, having his family there, this meant a lot to him. It was obvious that he is a proud man to have accomplished as much as he has in the pool world, and for him to want to share this with his family is understandable. I may be wrong, but from what I observed in the audience while he was actively engaged in a match, they may have been a distraction to him. This distraction did not afford him to put 100 percent of his concentration on the task at hand.

As far as consistency, that has to go to Shane Van Boening. Whenever he was in the pit, I was comfortable, win or lose. Yes, he did miss some shots, but he also made some good shots. His dedication to this celebration and his professionalism as a member are noteworthy.

Dennis and Rodney definitely had the spirit of Team USA, but they didn't seem to bring the strength that I know each one of them is capable of. It just seemed like their minds were in other places when they were in the pit. I know they wanted to win, no question, but they did not deliver this year, as they have in previous years.

Is Team USA a disgrace? No. I am sure each member feels like crap today. I am quite sure that Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland may feel the sting the worst. Shane has nothing to feel bad about. He delivered.

In pool, there can only be one winner, and this year, it was Team Europe. Hopefully, Team USA, as Barry Hearn pointed out, will bring it on next year, and I hope they learned from this year's mistakes, because there were many. And in the words of a European by birth, Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Well be back." :grin:
Click to expand...

You are missing some key POINTS!

1. you can't make them practice and reports say only 1 player was on the practice table.
2. you can't make them eat together and they went their separate ways.
3. the team was built on a false pretense and no one could say they earned their spot TRULY except for SVB.
4. As team captain Archer/HALL failed to motivate! I.E. change pay structure to pay for each win! Change to dollar amounts based on win percentage or some other performance metric. The days of "Pennies from heaven" should be gone! The guys don't rise to the occasion when NOTHING is on the line. Cover the guys expenses there and after that the "PIE" gets chopped 100% based on performance!
5. The USA players are more rhythmic players and the format is all stop and go with doubles and short races with TV BREAKS! Its like being a relief pitcher vs. starting pitcher!
6. The European countries support MIKA, NEILS Fiejen & etc. with expenses to attend international events under their countries Olympic committees! While usa players are on their OWN dime.
7. the cost of living In Europe and Philippines is drastically different! The average filipino single household makes $2500 to $3000 a year in USA currency! So, they can live off alot less money then team usa with average single household in USA of $28,500! I don't know exact figures for European Households as each country reports separately but you get my point!

KD
 
naji said:
These are short races, US Team needed luck nothing else, sure one or two matches Europeans skill dominated. I would keep the same team to give chance for "revenge" to motivate them for next year.
Click to expand...

That's the most extraordinary thing I've ever read on here - and I've paid semi-close attention to Bob Dixon.
 
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