An appropriate apology:

jay helfert said:
I don't know Eddie Wheat either but I would like to hit a few balls with one of his cues. I also don't think a "name" makes a cue play good. There are some well known current cuemakers whose cues I don't happen to like. I just don't believe in knocking their cues, because it is obvious that other people do like them, and will pay high prices for them.

And there is a relatively unknown cuemaker named Chuck Starkey who I think makes a damn good hitting cue, one of the best. I happen to like the way most Szambotis play, but hey that's just me. And Bushkas too have a hit I like. I wish I would never have sold mine years ago.

I was a little offended when Mr. Wheat said he thought Szambotis "hit like shit". I think the way a cue plays is very subjective, and to knock another man's work is a little out of line. Especially one so revered in the same industry. There is something called respect. I guess if I had my choice between a Wheat cue and a Szamboti, I would chose the Szam. Enough said.


Well, you just contradicted yourself, and on top of that you have never hit with one of my cues... if you did than you would automatically know I build them EXACTLY THE WAY YOU WANT IT INCLUDING THE HIT !

So once again I am not competing with any cuemaker out there, living or deceased, becasue what I offer is something 100% completely custom !!!

It doesn't cost anything to pay attention...... is there anyone on here that's not high ?????


- Eddie Wheat
 
Alex Kanapilly said:
Probably with a bunch of messages like I was trying to send you... let it go. He doesn't see how he's coming across, several people have tried to give him advice.


I take advice very well and utilize it, but this is about personal insults, so should I just take it and not retaliate ???


would'nt you ?



- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
I take advice very well and utilize it, but this is about personal insults, so should I just take it and not retaliate ???


would'nt you ?



- Eddie Wheat

I don't know you or Klopek but I thought his initial assesement of your apology was correct. You weren't really apologizing. We get it, you don't like the hit of those cues, but why include the rest of it if not to get a reaction out of people?

I also thought the post suggesting that you use a dictionary was appropriate. I make spelling errors too, we all do, but your posts are difficult to read. I think he was genuinely trying to give you constructive advice, it wasn't a personal attack.

Fred and Jay made good points too. You should take a step back and re-read those posts. If you don't see what everyone is talking about... well, carry on I suppose.
 
manwon said:
This thread is getting pretty good, I just turned off the TV, Radio, and my lathe, the Popcorn is in the microwave and I just opened an Ice Cold Beer!!!!!!!!!!;)


i'm gonna sit here on the rail with you and sweat out this thread...
 
Scott Lee said:
Fatboy...I will second that opinion. It IS one sweet hitting cue! :D I loved mine, and played with it for 17 yrs., before I sold it! Yours hit even better than mine!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


I have let alot of good players hit balls with that cue and I tell them its an old Adams or something so they wont be biased and all but one all say the same thing....thats the sweetest cue I have ever hit a ball with. I have a few other choices in the closet and some of the szams come close but that cue is it, end of story. The other bushkas I have arnt even close, man that cue is something special, problem is I refuse to check it as baggage, even shipping it is dangerous, i dont want an isnurance check if it gets damaged or lost as it cant be replaced. If I had a jet and could take it with me then it would be ok, but I dont have one so I leave it at home. It is a once in a life time hitting cue, the standard all cues should be measured against, in 22 years of playing and studying cues, trying everything notihing cames close to that single cue, not to say something else wont come along, I have a Gus thats close but Barry and Eric have time to come over the top of it. I have one other cue that is close it isnt a known builder but its one hell of a cue....more on that later.


I believe the most talented cue maker is Ernie(Ginacue) his work is amazing, I love the 2 I have but dont care much for the hit of them, but the looks and design are the best. Barry Szam and Eric(Sugartree) are the best cue makers for the best hitting cues IMO. Barry also makes beatiful works of art(I have a couple) Eric's cues are pure horse power all go and a little show if you like beatiful wood-I do so I love the natural beatuie of his wood choices. The CnC guys make nice stuff too.
 
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I've owned plenty of vintage cues by the most respected makers and they all played very nicely ... However, the new technology (since the mid-90's or so) seems to produce a consistantly great playing cue when quality materials and expert craftsmanship are employed ...

My simple analogy ... I truly love and have owned several Vintage 12 cyl. Ferrari's from the 1960's and they all performed very well, overall ... Those cars today will command prices from $400k to well over $4m ... However, the current day Ferrari V12 is a far superior car in regards to performance, handling, braking, reliability and, most importantly, craftsmanship ... A pre-owned 550 Maranello or 612 Scaglietti will set you back $100k - $250k and will scare the livin' shit out of you ...

Bushka / Szam vs. Southwest / Searing ... Old Ferrari vs. New Ferrari ...

It is all in the "eyes", "hands", and "minds" of the beholders ...
 
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Fatboy said:
I have let alot of good players hit balls with that cue and I tell them its an old Adams or something so they wont be biased and all but one all say the same thing....thats the sweetest cue I have ever hit a ball with. I have a few other choices in the closet and some of the szams come close but that cue is it, end of story. The other bushkas I have arnt even close, man that cue is something special, problem is I refuse to check it as baggage, even shipping it is dangerous, i dont want an isnurance check if it gets damaged or lost as it cant be replaced. If I had a jet and could take it with me then it would be ok, but I dont have one so I leave it at home. It is a once in a life time hitting cue, the standard all cues should be measured against, in 22 years of playing and studying cues, trying everything notihing cames close to that single cue, not to say something else wont come along, I have a Gus thats close but Barry and Eric have time to come over the top of it. I have one other cue that is close it isnt a known builder but its one hell of a cue....more on that later.




I believe the most talented cue maker is Ernie(Ginacue) his work is amazing, I love the 2 I have but dont care much for the hit of them, but the looks and design are the best. Barry Szam and Eric(Sugartree) are the best cue makers for the best hitting cues IMO. Barry also makes beatiful works of art(I have a couple) Eric's cues are pure horse power all go and a little show if you like beatiful wood-I do so I love the natural beatuie of his wood choices. The CnC guys make nice stuff too.

Just out of curiosity, consideriing 90% of the playability is in the shaft and the rest is divided between the joint pin / joint collar / and forearm wood type...

What have you noticed different about it as far as asthetics compared to the other cues of the same origin ?

Because I can guarantee you that the shaft is the main factor in the equation...


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
Str8PoolPlayer said:
I've owned plenty of vintage cues by the most respected makers and they all played very nicely ... However, the new technology (since the mid-90's or so) seems to produce a consistantly great playing cue when quality materials and expert craftsmanship are employed ...

My simple analogy ... I truly love and have owned several Vintage 12 cyl. Ferrari's from the 1960's and they all performed very well, overall ... Those cars today will command prices from $400k to well over $4m ... However, the current day Ferrari V12 is a far superior car in regards to performance, handling, braking, reliability and, most importantly, craftsmanship ... A pre-owned 550 Maranello or 612 Scaglietti will set you back $100k - $250k and will scare the livin' shit out of you ...

Bushka / Szam vs. Southwest / Searing ... Old Ferrari vs. New Ferrari ...

It is all in the "eyes", "hands", and "minds" of the beholders ...

i have an Enzo but I'm a lambo guy Ferraris are to light for me, the Veyron is the triple nuts.
 
WheatCues said:
Just out of curiosity, consideriing 90% of the playability is in the shaft and the rest is divided between the joint pin / joint collar / and forearm wood type...

What have you noticed different about it as far as asthetics compared to the other cues of the same origin ?

Because I can guarantee you that the shaft is the main factor in the equation...


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat


i agree that the shaft is is the main factor in a cue second to the joint and lastly the butt,

old wood shafts feel better than new wood, and dont warp, there is nothing nicer than a 40 year old shaft that was made out of old wood 40 years ago, green wood so to speak can warp, I have seen this time and time again with newer wood, but as you know its hard enough to get good wood and to get old good wood is more difficult then to take a cut a month taes along time to build up a pipe line of shafts so you have good shafts comming up every month, it took Jerry Franklin along time to do that at SW he told me all about it, its dry here in vegas and I dont know how many cuts or frequency he did but I saw piles of shafts in different stages, you cant rush that. I have some old Szam shafts that have dings that can be soaked out the wood is so hard, they need to be spun on a lathe and warmed with friction and dampened to get the dings out, I have had shafts so soft a ding would soak out in 12 hours. Old wood rules!!!
 
Alex Kanapilly said:
I don't know you or Klopek but I thought his initial assesement of your apology was correct. You weren't really apologizing. We get it, you don't like the hit of those cues, but why include the rest of it if not to get a reaction out of people?

I also thought the post suggesting that you use a dictionary was appropriate. I make spelling errors too, we all do, but your posts are difficult to read. I think he was genuinely trying to give you constructive advice, it wasn't a personal attack.

Fred and Jay made good points too. You should take a step back and re-read those posts. If you don't see what everyone is talking about... well, carry on I suppose.


ok, but I took that personal just as you guys did with mine, so you see we are all wrong here and even after all of these posts, nothing has really been accomplished as a matter of fact we might even have regressed abit as humans... lol !

But seriously, I don't need a dictionary, I just type too fast for my own good then I have to go back and correct the errors... I'm sponteaneous with my remarks and posts, I do not sit back and think them out, so type it all out then go back and make corrections as needed !

I'm not bragging but I do have college degree so I am educated and honestly have a pretty good vocabulary so out of respect to all of you, I treat you with the same education and utilize a respectable vocabulary rather than talking down to you like a bunch of rejects from the hood !

Like I said before, to know me is to really like me, but I simply don't take crap from anyone, if I did then I wouldn't be plain old me !!!

I have no problems or ill will toward any of you including klopek, but you can't fire at me and expect me to back down, I have too much heart for that, and if you think that's heart, you should see me play, I'm a tough one to beat for the money, I'll play for hours even days, and as long as theres money in my pocket you won't win becasue I WILL wear you down !

I simply wanted to offer the same quality work at a practical realistic price... if I can replicate every single hit on the market then how am I wrong ??? if I give you exactly 100% everything you want in a cue how am I inferior ????

This cuemaking business is alot of smoke and mirrors, let's cut the fat off "price" and analyze the principles:

Wood costs/joint pin/collars/wrap/shaft/ferrule/tip/rubber bumper... theses prices are the same across the board.. for example : do you think kercek or searing or motti pays more or less for there wood than I do ???? we all buy the same woods we just have different suppliers but the majority of us buy from the same companies ... so what justifies the severe price increase... the labor ????? hell no it only takes a few days to put an elaborate cue together given that the wood is aged and at it's ready stage for assembly, you honestly believe that a 2/3 or 4 yr. waiting list is comprised of hundreds of people waiting to get a cue and that this cuemaker is working ridiculous hours to attain his goal ???? if you really believe that you have be bamboozled !!!!

Most cuemakers do not want to work that hard, so they put a few hours in a day turning woods and some assembly.... most of you are so consumed by the hype that you think the longer you wait for a cue that he must be doing something really special.... sorry ! isn't true... he's gone fishing !!!

I don't mean to rain on anyones parade but I think certain issues need to brought to light, there isn't some old guy with gray hair sitting in front of a 1940's lathe with bi-focal magnifying glassed strapped to his forehead with a light on it using an exacto-knife and a wood chisel building your cue !

We all use machines now ! this is the 21st century there are mabey 2 tatoo artists left in the industry the rest are using state of the art 15000.00 CNC milling machines like the one I have and even more expensive ones to do all those intricate inlays...

But still the cue must be assembled by hand and that is where the difference lies, but still does not justify jacking up the price of a cue to ridiculous price tags.... unless there are diamonds and rubies in that cue anything over 1000.00 is silly... because all the inlays in the world won't help you play any better !

There are some very expensive woods out there and I'll be more than happy to provide all of you with realistic market prices of exotic hardwoods and then let you determine how many mortgage and car payments these notorious cuemakers are making off of you !

It's ok to get paid well for your time, but this is pool... it's the most poverished sport in the U.S. so why should the the cues be so overpriced when theres no way to reimburse yourself through playing, unless you are a top pro and then they get them for free anyways, you have no need to spend that kind of money on art, unless you are a collector and image means more to you than reality... even professional hustlers understand this concept and do not buy flashy cues !

I'm not knocking any cuemaker in particular, I'm just saying prices of cues have gotten way out of hand and it's nobody's fault but the consumers, you agree to pay these outrageous prices for wood and want to be a status symbol and this why we a forced to spend 1500.00 dollars for a 500.00 cue.....

Unless you are absolutely the rolls-royce of cue makers, you shouldnt be commanding prices that only art collectors can afford, becasue there are more blue-collar players in this game than there ever will be of any other class and it's not fair to highroll the main body that supports the cuemakers and makes this game as competitive and wonderful as it is !


- Eddie Wheat
 
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Fatboy said:
i agree that the shaft is is the main factor in a cue second to the joint and lastly the butt,

old wood shafts feel better than new wood, and dont warp, there is nothing nicer than a 40 year old shaft that was made out of old wood 40 years ago, green wood so to speak can warp, I have seen this time and time again with newer wood, but as you know its hard enough to get good wood and to get old good wood is more difficult then to take a cut a month taes along time to build up a pipe line of shafts so you have good shafts comming up every month, it took Jerry Franklin along time to do that at SW he told me all about it, its dry here in vegas and I dont know how many cuts or frequency he did but I saw piles of shafts in different stages, you cant rush that. I have some old Szam shafts that have dings that can be soaked out the wood is so hard, they need to be spun on a lathe and warmed with friction and dampened to get the dings out, I have had shafts so soft a ding would soak out in 12 hours. Old wood rules!!!


I agree... nothing compares to a well seasoned and aged shaft but you can achieve that too by excessive playing for many months and the oils and friction from your hand it hones the shaft and over times makes it denser and harder... there isn't a better hitting shafts in the world than an aged one .... and that my friend is what all custoom cues a 1000.00 or better should have on them regardless ! "you have to justify the price somehow" !


- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
I agree... nothing compares to a well seasoned and aged shaft but you can achieve that too by excessive playing for many months and the oils and friction from your hand it hones the shaft and over times makes it denser and harder... there isn't a better hitting shafts in the world than an aged one .... and that my friend is what all custoom cues a 1000.00 or better should have on them regardless ! "you have to justify the price somehow" !


- Eddie Wheat


I agree 100%. Sadly you either have to have alot of $$$ or good friends to get a good shaft. The maunfactored shafts are a good subistute because there isnt enough good shafts to go around. your right you can accellerate the ageing process of a shaft with alot of play, my hands are so wet i have to powder them constantly so my shafts dont get that oil. I have some shafts that I used from new to well seasoned wood, it was old wood when I got the cue and man it just got better and better. I have played with some shafts so long that I noticed them change, you get better feed back when they season up over time, I dont sand shafts so they only wear down from play but thats minimal, SVB's shaft has been used as much as any single shaft he has used it since he was 9, his mom used it before that and he playes 5 hours a day with it for 15 years, you do the math, and there is some sigh of wear it is a bit skinnier than the ferrel but what a piece of wood, it is similar to the good Bushka I have. If your ever in Vegas you can try that cue, forget who made it try it with an open mind-you'll like it.



I have some old well used shafts that have that oil and the age-thats the one that I couldnt soak the ding out of, in 5 days I put a drop of water on it 4 or 5 times a day-its dry here and evorapates fast and the ding never moved, i have soaked alot of dings and never saw one like that one.
 
one More Thing

Additionally i agree with you "Hit" is 100% subjective, ugly girls get pregnant too. :eek:


I would love to try one of your cues, I try every cue I can I like to learn, there are very few cues that I dont like and I would say that I could learn to play with 80% of the custom cue's made by real dedicated cue makers, Chinese stuff, fiberglass stuff etc dosent count... Some cues I cnat play with fat ass cues I cant play with no matter who makes them, or a cue with a 314 shaft because I cant feel the hit and that feeling is why I love pool, the tatcile sensation of a cue the sound of the shot and potting the ball, getting shape is whats its al about, a shaft with novicaine in it so I cant feel it takes a big part of the enjoyment of pool away from me.

i drank a coffee for the first time in weeks and its almost 2 am and i cant stop typing
 
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Fatboy said:
I agree 100%. Sadly you either have to have alot of $$$ or good friends to get a good shaft. The maunfactored shafts are a good subistute because there isnt enough good shafts to go around. your right you can accellerate the ageing process of a shaft with alot of play, my hands are so wet i have to powder them constantly so my shafts dont get that oil. I have some shafts that I used from new to well seasoned wood, it was old wood when I got the cue and man it just got better and better. I have played with some shafts so long that I noticed them change, you get better feed back when they season up over time, I dont sand shafts so they only wear down from play but thats minimal, SVB's shaft has been used as much as any single shaft he has used it since he was 9, his mom used it before that and he playes 5 hours a day with it for 15 years, you do the math, and there is some sigh of wear it is a bit skinnier than the ferrel but what a piece of wood, it is similar to the good Bushka I have. If your ever in Vegas you can try that cue, forget who made it try it with an open mind-you'll like it.



I have some old well used shafts that have that oil and the age-thats the one that I couldnt soak the ding out of, in 5 days I put a drop of water on it 4 or 5 times a day-its dry here and evorapates fast and the ding never moved, i have soaked alot of dings and never saw one like that one.


another interesting way to achieve the aged shaft feel is on a lathe using small amounts of linseed oil and burnishing it into the wood @ 1500-2000rpms, it is a quite impressive result and is hard to tell the difference becasue of the honed glossy dark look of the wood and the playability, however, the sound can not be replicated of a truly aged shaft....

I divulge this techique becasue I don't believe you should have to pay through the nose just get a good shaft....


- Eddie Wheat
 
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WheatCues said:
another interesting way to achieve the aged shaft feel is on a lathe using small amounts of linseed oil and burnishing it into the wood @ 1500-2000rpms, it is a quite impressive result and is hard to tell the difference becasue of the honed glossy dark look of the wood and the playability, however, the sound can not be replicated of a truly aged shaft....

I divulge this techique becasue I don't believe you should have to pay through the nose just get a good shaft....


- Eddie Wheat


yet again i 100% agree with you, most people who dont agree with us, i believe havent had the pleasant experience of special rare wood or have the years of experience of being around the trade, i know a fair bit about cue consturction ect, and more about wood and the effects of age has on wood, i'm not an expert but I did my homework and was lucky enough to have the grandmasters take time with me on the topic of some woods, i'm a accomplished player but far from being a great player, but i can run a 3 pack now and then and a 4 pack on a Diamond table once in a blue moon thus-i'm not a rookie, i wish I could play pool as good as my knowlege of woods/cues are, lol , i gotta go to bed, nice to meet you best of luck, i'm gonna go dream about shaft wood, let me know if your in vegas I'll show you some great shafts some are just plain wore out others are mint condition, you could teach me alot and have fun. stay intouch


best

fatboy

ps in in 30hrs and 10 mins i'll be 41, i'm just an old shaft.....:( now


gotta sleep
 
Fatboy said:
yet again i 100% agree with you, most people who dont agree with us, i believe havent had the pleasant experience of special rare wood or have the years of experience of being around the trade, i know a fair bit about cue consturction ect, and more about wood and the effects of age has on wood, i'm not an expert but I did my homework and was lucky enough to have the grandmasters take time with me on the topic of some woods, i'm a accomplished player but far from being a great player, but i can run a 3 pack now and then and a 4 pack on a Diamond table once in a blue moon thus-i'm not a rookie, i wish I could play pool as good as my knowlege of woods/cues are, lol , i gotta go to bed, nice to meet you best of luck, i'm gonna go dream about shaft wood, let me know if your in vegas I'll show you some great shafts some are just plain wore out others are mint condition, you could teach me alot and have fun. stay intouch


best

fatboy

ps in in 30hrs and 10 mins i'll be 41, i'm just an old shaft.....:( now


gotta sleep



Thanks and HAPPY 41ST BIRTHDAY !


- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
Well, you just contradicted yourself, and on top of that you have never hit with one of my cues... if you did than you would automatically know I build them EXACTLY THE WAY YOU WANT IT INCLUDING THE HIT !

So once again I am not competing with any cuemaker out there, living or deceased, becasue what I offer is something 100% completely custom !!!

It doesn't cost anything to pay attention...... is there anyone on here that's not high ?????


- Eddie Wheat


You're wound up a little too tight buddy. Maybe you should be smoking something. :)
 
WheatCues said:
With all due respect to you, I don't go around looking for trouble... the sarcastic responses were provoked by the intial post I was responding to, if you feel the need to critique me atleast take all of it in consideration before passing judgement on me !
Then you should understand by fully reading my post to you that I indeed read all of your posts in the other thread and in this thread. It should be pretty obvious.

Eddie, you're fairly new to this board. You should understand that. Understand that there are also several cuemakers that post to these boards. Your benediction on cue making, it's all good information, but you're preaching to the wrong crowd. Maybe you need to give us a little more credit?You many not think so, but your words look like you are trying to talk down to us. As if you know things about buying cues that we couldn't possibly have known about (for years). Sure, there are going to be newbies at buying cues, but because of the internet, these boards are going to be more educated and in the know than our peers who aren't on the internet.

Anyway, in case you didn't know, the cuemaking discussion boards is just two clicks away:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

Maybe you'd like to focus in on those threads and discuss philosophy on cuemaking with the other fine cuemakers on this board?

Fred
 
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WheatCues said:
I agree... nothing compares to a well seasoned and aged shaft but you can achieve that too by excessive playing for many months and the oils and friction from your hand it hones the shaft and over times makes it denser and harder... there isn't a better hitting shafts in the world than an aged one .... and that my friend is what all custoom cues a 1000.00 or better should have on them regardless ! "you have to justify the price somehow" !


- Eddie Wheat

I was following along pretty well until this, and now I'm confused. You say Bushkas have a lousy hit and yet you say nothing compares to the hit of old shaft wood. I notice in your avatar that you play with a 314 shaft.
 
This site is just like opening a Play Boy

Same Spreads different girls.


Wasn't it about 7 months ago a NEW(ish) CueMaker was posting how his cues were "The Shit" and others "Hit Like Shit"????

From my perspective.....I hope he has another 15K to spend on PR (Damage Control)

I think the (suggestions) on forum ettiquite (that you knida asked for in an earlier post in this thread) should include the following...

Re-Read the thread you just typed before posting and ask your self "How much trouble am I going to stir up with my comments" If you can live with that then "Submit Reply"

Touting yourself as a "Player" or Guru of any kind is pretty much useless and only leads others to take pot shots at you to check your "Real Status"....Just post your opinions and thoughts and your "level of status" will be determined by that....(Especially when it comes to Cue Making Ability)....There are literally TONS of people that can and are turning out cues these days that I am sure you as a cue maker have not even heard of.....From my experience....most people that come on here and try and blow up their "abilities" usually are no where near what they claim (At the table or on the lathe)....

Also....There are quit a few "lurkers" that rarely if ever post that are household name "World Beaters" and have close ties with the entire pool industry...IMO damageing your reputation here is a lot bigger damgage in the industry than you might first think.

Sometimes a simple re-word of your post can make a huge difference in others perception of you...(Example: Change your comment of "It hits like Shit" to "I don't like the hit of X cue" and your perception across the board would have been totally different)

Just some friendly advice since I get the impression that you probably are a really nice guy, but may be a little on the "easlily triggered" side....:)
 
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