An appropriate apology:

WheatCues said:
Just out of curiosity, consideriing 90% of the playability is in the shaft and the rest is divided between the joint pin / joint collar / and forearm wood type...

What have you noticed different about it as far as asthetics compared to the other cues of the same origin ?

Because I can guarantee you that the shaft is the main factor in the equation...


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
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I just had to point this one thing out. You say that the shaft is the MAIN factor of a cue (I agree). What do you think it says about you that you do not play with a shaft that you made? You can duplicate the hit of anyone? Can't you make a shaft that hits like a predator? If so, why do you use a predator?

Also when you say that you can make a cue hit like any other cue out there, wouldn't it be nice to be knowledgeable about what is out there? What if I said I want you to make me a cue, and I want it to hit like a Hercek? How could you possibly do this if you have never heard of hercek? Can you understand that you would get criticism for saying that you know so much about cuemaking that you could duplicate any others out there, then not be able to even name some of the top cuemakers out there?

Just for the record, I responded to you in the other post. I was kinda on your side, and thought you were getting bashed a bit, and maybe people were being a bit harsh to you. Then I found this, and thought, wow, this guy is apologizing and is making an effort to explain and clarify. Good for him. But as this thread went on, you look worse and worse. You need to calm down a bit. Don't take everything too personal. Take a deep breath. I do think that you are missing how some things are coming across.

I will say that I am very opinionated, and will be very sarcastic to make my points. I think that you and I are probably very similar in a lot of ways. If we met in person, I would be willing to bet we would hit it off. I am not trying to bash you. I will not resort to name calling or insults, but I will poke fun in some of your statements. I love to debate and explore different points of view, and I bet you do to. So while I am poking at you, do not feel the need to jump back down my throat. I will welcome your comments, but keep it cival. You will get more people, including myself to actually listen to what you are saying, and not just react emotionally.

You make comments like I never back down, etc. Relax, just a bit. You will find that you will get far more enjoyment on here. You will find I disagree with many people on here, about many things, but you will never find an example of me calling names, etc. I got into debates about very personal things such as religion, etc. I can completely disagree with you, but will still treat you with at least a bit of respect and civility. As someone else said on here, this is words on a page, it is very easy for someone to read something differently than you typed it. Be extra careful about how it MAY come across to someone else.

Bottom Line, I think you are probably an okay guy, but you are coming across as something else. That said, let the games begin!! If you are looking for a conversation discussing cues, and differing opinions... then bring it on! If you are looking to challenge everyone who disagrees with you into a my CUE is bigger than your CUE, count me out.
 
Yeah I played with a predator for a while...

Fatboy said:
Additionally i agree with you "Hit" is 100% subjective, ugly girls get pregnant too. :eek:


I would love to try one of your cues, I try every cue I can I like to learn, there are very few cues that I dont like and I would say that I could learn to play with 80% of the custom cue's made by real dedicated cue makers, Chinese stuff, fiberglass stuff etc dosent count... Some cues I cnat play with fat ass cues I cant play with no matter who makes them, or a cue with a 314 shaft because I cant feel the hit and that feeling is why I love pool, the tatcile sensation of a cue the sound of the shot and potting the ball, getting shape is whats its al about, a shaft with novicaine in it so I cant feel it takes a big part of the enjoyment of pool away from me.

i drank a coffee for the first time in weeks and its almost 2 am and i cant stop typing
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I played with a predator for a little while and now I use it as my break cue... I didn't like that it didn't have the feel that I was used to. ( I played with a Frank Paradise from the early seventies for about 12 years) so what I did was cut off the ferrule and drilled out the foam core, placed a new tenon and ferrule and that eliminated the dead feel and increased the squirt (more end mass) but kept a lot of the accuracy and consistency. I use BHE so I need to have a closer pivot point than standard 314's.....
 
I was similar when I first started posting....

poolpro said:
I just had to point this one thing out. You say that the shaft is the MAIN factor of a cue (I agree). What do you think it says about you that you do not play with a shaft that you made? You can duplicate the hit of anyone? Can't you make a shaft that hits like a predator? If so, why do you use a predator?

Also when you say that you can make a cue hit like any other cue out there, wouldn't it be nice to be knowledgeable about what is out there? What if I said I want you to make me a cue, and I want it to hit like a Hercek? How could you possibly do this if you have never heard of hercek? Can you understand that you would get criticism for saying that you know so much about cuemaking that you could duplicate any others out there, then not be able to even name some of the top cuemakers out there?

Just for the record, I responded to you in the other post. I was kinda on your side, and thought you were getting bashed a bit, and maybe people were being a bit harsh to you. Then I found this, and thought, wow, this guy is apologizing and is making an effort to explain and clarify. Good for him. But as this thread went on, you look worse and worse. You need to calm down a bit. Don't take everything too personal. Take a deep breath. I do think that you are missing how some things are coming across.

I will say that I am very opinionated, and will be very sarcastic to make my points. I think that you and I are probably very similar in a lot of ways. If we met in person, I would be willing to bet we would hit it off. I am not trying to bash you. I will not resort to name calling or insults, but I will poke fun in some of your statements. I love to debate and explore different points of view, and I bet you do to. So while I am poking at you, do not feel the need to jump back down my throat. I will welcome your comments, but keep it cival. You will get more people, including myself to actually listen to what you are saying, and not just react emotionally.

You make comments like I never back down, etc. Relax, just a bit. You will find that you will get far more enjoyment on here. You will find I disagree with many people on here, about many things, but you will never find an example of me calling names, etc. I got into debates about very personal things such as religion, etc. I can completely disagree with you, but will still treat you with at least a bit of respect and civility. As someone else said on here, this is words on a page, it is very easy for someone to read something differently than you typed it. Be extra careful about how it MAY come across to someone else.

Bottom Line, I think you are probably an okay guy, but you are coming across as something else. That said, let the games begin!! If you are looking for a conversation discussing cues, and differing opinions... then bring it on! If you are looking to challenge everyone who disagrees with you into a my CUE is bigger than your CUE, count me out.
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I got into some heated arguments with some posters and me and Colin had several disagreements about what is happening on the table... (don't argue with Colin, even when you know that you are right, he is usually right) Most of the time it turned out we were thinking the same thing but describing it differently...

That can happen a lot on a forum where everything is typed and sometimes difficult to illustrate. Some people have different ways of and levels of communicating and you have to be careful in a limited environment like this one... It is always best I have discovered to use limited extremes of description on the forum...

For instance like was pointed out Mr. Wheat, don't say they hit like $h!t, say I don't prefer the way they hit.... It's a little late for that now, you've already let out the preverbial cat in the bag, but to continue with a diatribe masquerading as an apology is only making things worse. You need to quit while you're behind and just think about this thing in the future... As an aspiring professional cuemaker, this is the wrong forum to rub people the wrong way.... Just about everyone who's anyone in the pool world either directly views and or posts on this site or has contact with someone who does...


P.S. If you see this as an attack on you, then you should seriously consider not posting online anymore because you will make some enemies, (not me, yet, BTW)...
 
unfortunately, the custom cuemakers have bamboozled the general public, the reality is the mass market guys like Meucci and Predator have been doing actual research to make cues better while the custom guys want to believe in hocus pocus like magical properties of hardwood soaked in the brazillian rainforest or some othewr such crap

YES, THIS MEANS EVERY CUEMAKER ON THIS BOARD TOO!!!
 
it's the truth, i'll subtract from that list any cuemaker than can provide evidence of increased performance or any cuemaker that does not claim increased performance

art, craftsmanship, pride of ownership, etc.... all good things and valid reasons for a custom, not bs performance claims

how many titles did Earl and Allison win with their China specials again?
 
Sure I can give you plenty of reasons....

smashmouth said:
unfortunately, the custom cuemakers have bamboozled the general public, the reality is the mass market guys like Meucci and Predator have been doing actual research to make cues better while the custom guys want to believe in hocus pocus like magical properties of hardwood soaked in the brazillian rainforest or some othewr such crap

YES, THIS MEANS EVERY CUEMAKER ON THIS BOARD TOO!!!
Click to expand...


One, these so called tests that they do are measured by what standard? Low deflection? So what, ask the philipino players if they want a cue with low deflection.... Ask anyone who uses BHE if they want a cue with low deflection... If you ask me it's the other way around,, all of these mass production cue makers who tout their miracle low deflection scientifically proven increased accuracy, sure they may have increased accuracy when aiming at the CP on the OB, but that doesn't mean increased performance...

Hell all that does is make a player not understand what is going on and will decrease their overall performance if they ever switch to a higher end custom cue or it will force them to sacrifice the increased feel of response from the custom cue makers aged or other wise treated shaft by using one of the "miracle" low deflection shafts to maintain some semblance of their game.

Yo uwant a low deflection shaft, just cut off the ferrule, drill a two inch hole in the front of the shaft, fill it with foam, and viola, miracle, low deflection shaft that takes "scientific engineering and testing to achieve" wow.... It's front end mass that causes deflection....

The advantages of custom cue manufacturing are; 1. aged woods that are properly treated and taken down slowly to decrease warping ,2. increased feel so that you can develop better speed control by being able to better feel how hard you're hitting the ball,3. not having to take off the shelf designs and patterns, being able to customize them, similar to getting an airbrushed car paint job, 4. social status, having those hard to get much sought after cues that have those long waiting lists...5. They are extremely beautiful, and the craftsmanship and skill and generations of knowledge that goes into their design is something wonderful to behold... The fact that I have a thirty three year old cue that is straight as an arrow and hits as solid as ever is a testament to their superior construction....

My question for you would be, "What is in it for you for knocking these custom cue makers?" There's nothing in it for me for standing up for them. So what, do you sell these miracle scientifically marketed cues and shafts or what?????
 
I have to wonder how many Buskas' you hit with to make that determination. I played with one that hit awful. About 15 years before that I was at Johnston City and hit some balls with a much earlier Buska, it was ebony points, ivory and mother of pearl inlays, it played like no other cue I have ever played with, and I have owned Zams/Gina/Early SWest and many others, but its design and weight distribution seem to be a perfect fit for straight pool. The amount of follow through with a soft swing was quite amazing, today cues are designed for a different game, and NO two cues will ever hit the same unless you have the same wood, now thats a difficult/impossible thing to find when every piece of wood is different that the other.
 
I've said this before but I'll say it again. It never ceases to amaze me that people who are in business - i.e.: Mr. Wheat - would get into an open, public talk forum that is directly related to his business and verbalize in such a way that can alienate his potential customers. Mr. Wheat is in business and talks down about a competitor?s product. Yes he has said he has no competitors but no matter what business you are in you have competition, especially today. We as consumers can buy near anything we want from any country on this planet. Google pool cues or custom pool cues and you will soon see what a formidable array of cues and cue products that are available. It is always in poor taste to degrade your competition to your customers or potential customers. Once you start employing these types of tactics people soon begin to wonder why you need to knock another product to sell your own. And yes your product may be superior on its own merits but once the trash talk starts many people will back away from you. Negativity will never land you a customer or client.

In addition knowing your industry, some history, artistry, and your fellow cue makers both present and past will greatly enhance your chances of selling a cue. We are the cue buying public. Many of the posters here have a vast array of knowledge of our sport and those who have contributed to the sport. As buyers we can speak of other cue makers and their products. You should be able to converse on this subject. If you can't, most likely you will have lost potential customers.
 
smashmouth said:
unfortunately, the custom cuemakers have bamboozled the general public, the reality is the mass market guys like Meucci and Predator have been doing actual research to make cues better while the custom guys want to believe in hocus pocus like magical properties of hardwood soaked in the brazillian rainforest or some othewr such crap

YES, THIS MEANS EVERY CUEMAKER ON THIS BOARD TOO!!!
Click to expand...

You are a very angry person, I will bet you hate your life, your job, and even what you see in the mirror. If I were you I would find something to make myself happy:), you know like Transcendental Meditation, Religion, or hell maybe even sex would work for you.

Relax dude, and take a deep breath, stick your head out the nearest window and scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D You will feel better when your throat stops hurting!!!!!:D

Happy New Year, and before your next post do some research that way just maybe you can taken seriously.;)
 
Craig, you seem pretty bitter yourself there partner

is it because you cannot disprove my claim that you're a con artist and everything else the term implies?

thus far my remarks have been made without naming individual cuemakers but if you want to get personal, fine, I'll see to it to remind everyone about you and your deceptive practices
 
smashmouth said:
unfortunately, the custom cuemakers have bamboozled the general public, the reality is the mass market guys like Meucci and Predator have been doing actual research to make cues better while the custom guys want to believe in hocus pocus like magical properties of hardwood soaked in the brazillian rainforest or some othewr such crap

YES, THIS MEANS EVERY CUEMAKER ON THIS BOARD TOO!!!
Click to expand...

Brazil is a long ways away from Missouri. Can I substitute the Ozark Mountains?
 
What a Joke!!!!!!

smashmouth said:
Craig, you seem pretty bitter yourself there partner

is it because you cannot disprove my claim that you're a con artist and everything else the term implies?

thus far my remarks have been made without naming individual cuemakers but if you want to get personal, fine, I'll see to it to remind everyone about you and your deceptive practices
Click to expand...


Yeah, and you can't prove that "Scientifically" , what a friggin joke!!!,tested and manufactured cues outperform custom cues. It kind of goes against all logic... I mean it's kind of like saying " well, one piece cues that are straight shoot and feel better than jointed cues....

Ok but find one that's straight and carry it with you to all the pool halls. Fine, find a "technologically crafted" cue that hits perfect and use it, but to claim that custom cue makers use deceptive marketing practices is a friggin joke...

It is a FACT that old wood that happens to be more expensive and not used by these mass marketed pool cue manufacturers that you refer to is denser and will provide more response or feel... What makes good feel can be subjective, which is exactly the point. You can't say someone uses deceptive practices in an art that is exactly subjective...

Different woods will feel and respond differently when used in different combinations... Some cue manufacturers get around this by coring the cues and using a single piece of a specific type of wood in the core of the cue, usually hard rock maple... SOme people; however, like the feel of certain woods in combination and this is where custom cue making comes into play...

It is absolutely ridiculous for you to be under the impression that stating that custom cues provide varying feels and for a cuemaker to believe that his has a superior feel is deceptive.. It is belief, you couldn't prove someone believed a certain thing if you wanted to....
 
smashmouth said:
unfortunately, the custom cuemakers have bamboozled the general public, the reality is the mass market guys like Meucci and Predator have been doing actual research to make cues better while the custom guys want to believe in hocus pocus like magical properties of hardwood soaked in the brazillian rainforest or some othewr such crap

YES, THIS MEANS EVERY CUEMAKER ON THIS BOARD TOO!!!
Click to expand...


Wow Smash, where is this coming from? Are you in a bad mood today?

My experience has been that many top cuemakers go to great lengths to improve the playability of their cues. I would agree that many high end cues are designed more for looks and appearance, but certainly not all.

I have personally found expensive cues that I thought played quite well (and some that didn't imo), and some very inexpensive cues that I liked just as much.

In my opinion, it is caveat emptor when buying a cue. I prefer to try before I buy. With a few exceptions of course. Man, do I want to get my hands on a Sugartree! :D
 
jay helfert said:
Wow Smash, where is this coming from? Are you in a bad mood today?

My experience has been that many top cuemakers go to great lengths to improve the playability of their cues. I would agree that many high end cues are designed more for looks and appearance, but certainly not all.

I have personally found expensive cues that I thought played quite well (and some that didn't imo), and some very inexpensive cues that I liked just as much.

In my opinion, it is caveat emptor when buying a cue. I prefer to try before I buy. With a few exceptions of course. Man, do I want to get my hands on a Sugartree! :D
Click to expand...

You can find 2 of those right now on For Sale section. :)
 
Dawgie Hit A Homer

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are in business - i.e.: Mr. Wheat - would get into an open, public talk forum that is directly related to his business and verbalize in such a way that can alienate his potential customers. Mr. Wheat is in business and talks down about a competitor?s product. This is exactly the reason that Dennis Searing has such a loyal following. He has been a member of this forum for many years and very seldom posts unless he can offer advice to help cue builders advance their knowledge and would never participate in any form of bashing another persons cuemaking ability or playing ability. He has too much class to lower himself to the level that has been portrayed in the last several days. I personnaly know of two cuemakers new to the craft that Dennis invited into his shop to help them gain knowledge. He also helps a few well knowns with their issues from time to time. Dennis is truly passionate with his chosen profession and his door is always open and he is always willing to share all he knows to help out. Anyone that truly knows Dennis will say the same thing. As a business man myself, the best thing I can tell Mr. Wheat is, it takes many years to build up your good reputation but only takes a few days to screw it all up by pissing people off. If I am ever in the same pool hall as you or if we happen to meet in a tournament, I would like to hit a few racks with your cue but only if you have an OB-1 to fit it. Oh, by the way, I would love the last three.:D :D :D
 
:D
smashmouth said:
Craig, you seem pretty bitter yourself there partner

is it because you cannot disprove my claim that you're a con artist and everything else the term implies?

thus far my remarks have been made without naming individual cuemakers but if you want to get personal, fine, I'll see to it to remind everyone about you and your deceptive practices
Click to expand...

Sweet Heart, I go with my REAL name, I do not hide behind a COMPUTER, and I have nothing to prove to you. I also do not sell anything on this forum, I give my opinion, and you have given your's which proves your complete ignorance of this topic.

Where I come from people do not need to make accusations that they can not prove and that are based only on an opinion with no fact what so ever to base it upon.

Do you believe everything that you read, and even if you do, do you also take what ever is written as fact?:confused:

You will have to do better than that lame attempt above Sweet Heart, but I will give you some credit for what it is worth, you are certainly a MASTER BAITER!!!!!!:eek: :D

Happy New Years Sweets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)
 
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