An open conversation on what pool in North America needs and can support.

Ok, so now we've talked about some of the awesome prizes that would be available . Let's talk about the money again. While this may not be absolutely necessary , it does seem reasonable . Weekly dues would be something like $15 per player. With this $15 you would receive a ticket for one drink. That drink would be supplied by the bar. Any bar, and I do mean any bar will gladly give away one free draft, bottle, rail drink for free to get someone in the door and have them in the seat for 2+ hours , week after week. Customer acquisition costs are HUGE! The actual out of pocket money for that free beer is the best money they could ever possibly spend and here is why - you are GARANTEED that customer WILL BE COMING IN and patronizing your establishment. The next biggest thing after actually getting them in the door is keeping them there. Time = $$$$$$. With average stays in bars are probably around 50 minutes or so, how awesome is it to keep them there for 2-3 hours ( we all know how long league nights go for ). Also coming out of that $15 is your kick up to the governing organization ( you know the one we have createdbecause BCA & WPA ain't shit! ( Yes I think it would be a great idear for the governing body that was created and the " new league " to be one in the same - a be a different division or whatever. A portion of the money goes to the " pro division " to help fund pro events and pro initiatives. A portion goes to the League Operator too if that is how it is set up ( which I would assume it would be ). Anything left over could be used by LO to give back in some way to each of his local teams in some way.

Tables - So, as many others have said I do believe while not set in stone - the bar boxes should be designated as amateur and league only tables. I believe the standard for the pros should be thrown 4.5x9 footers. I say " not set in stone " for a couple reasons. One is just out of necessity. There is no real way I can think of to control all equipment - just not realistic in any way. Also, if a league team only has the 9 footers to play on so be it , good for them - they are ahead of the game imo. But yes , same as many others, I do believe the standard for the pros should be the 4.5x9. I wouldn't want to completely want to do away with pro events on BB's, as a little variety is always fun and welcomed. The same could be said for the 5x10 big foots - it would be fun to occasionally see them play on those as well. I know most of what I have written deals with leagues and that is because I believe this is the best, most realistic path to having a viable , sustainable pro tour. It's also the best way to grow the sport IMO. While probably 99% of the Hu dress of thousands of league players can't name 3 pros, they sure do love playing their pool every week! As with ANY BUSINESS , the first and most important step is " YA GOTTA GET THEM IN THE DOOR"!

A few other random thoughts I have on the subject - IMO , getting Jeanette Lee heavily involved from the ground floor is probably one of the smartest things one could do. She already has face and brand recognition heads and shoulders and unlike ANY other person involved with pool. Aside from that, she just has " it ". She can draw a crowd and interest lime none other. She gets the guys & and the gals - The gals wanna be like her, the guys wanna be with her lol. Win-win! Back to the Miller Lite sponsorship - see how that fits perfectly into this business plan? They are already in ( and very visibly advertising ) in just about any bar you walk in so this seems like a " no brainer" to me as well. Predator - this seems self explanatory. Already with a heavy presence in the pool world, but can you imagine them in as a major sponsor on something like this? I'm no expert on there line of products but think about a " league special cue " that retails for around $200 bucks? The upside to them is tremendous ! Think about putting a predator in each and every hand of those couple hundred thousand leaguers that are out there fighting the good fight each and every week ? Think of the sales and added money possible! Not to mention each and every one of those leaguers that just got their new $200 Predators that now need cases too lol!

I KNOW this all could work, the upside is unbelievable! What's needed is companies with deep pockets to get it rolling and competent leadership with the drive and dedication to make it happen! Everything else is already there ready for the taking. Mike H, this was just a brief overview of my vision. I have many specifics I didn't release and I also have plenty of ideas for the pros as well. If you have any questions or care to hear any more just let me know, I would love to help however/ wherever possible. BTW, I nominate Mike Howerton to run the business side of things and CJ WILES to represent the players 😉
 
Maybe Jay Helfert would come out of retirement to run the show. He would get my vote if I was a pro. Johnnyt
 
$15 a week!

So who exactly is paying this $15 a week? and where do you live?

Are you talking about a new league system?
 
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This is a great conversation and a lot of good ideas and information floating around. I disagree with a lot of people on one thing though - TV.

While I think TV is a key thing down the road, I think the initial focus needs to be on getting the players engaged and involved and paying regularly to belong and compete.

It's all about eyes. If you have 100K people following you on twitter you can leverage that into income. If you have 100K pool players competing every week and paying a little for the privilege you can leverage that into money. The more of a base you build the more excitement you'll build and it will snowball. And then it'll be easy to find sponsors and tv time - if tv still exists then.

Streaming might be more the future than tv - if you generate the interest. Imagine if players from leagues all over can have a beer and watch real time on the tv in the bar league matches from around the country and watch results from leagues across the nation be tallied and they can see if their national ranking went up or down that night.

If you had a national show with good hosts that could tap into live streams at bars across the country and do a highlight show similar to an NFL halftime show. Bars could then carry that feed and it would give players incentive to hang out for a bit after their leagues to see how everyone else did.

We do something similar every month when we put on live streamed training. The technology is there and not too expensive.
 
A league system

I'm sure but I would be a league system would take an awful lot of work to set up. While the concept I think might work, I cant imagine that the league systems across the country that are already in place are just going to roll over for the new system.

APA teams in my area pay $8 a week. Then the room owner does well to get them to spend another $8 in the room.

Not only are you talking about rolling out a new league but you are also going to be competing with the room owner for a big portion of his profit.

Its a great idea but I wouldn't give that a large likelihood of success. That's just my opinion but I do agree that a self sustaining model has to exist otherwise you cant count on anyone to do anything for you.

 
I have no idea how to make the money work but I do know what I like to watch. I don't have time for the current formats. When I do, I would much rather be playing. If I play in weekend tourneys, I'll miss a good portion of events. I only get 3 weekends out of every five off. They can't be designated for pool unless I wish to be single.

1) I would like to see a format that doesn't take all weekend much less all day. A 2-4 hour block of time would be great.

2) Give us fans something to relate to. Give us regional teams including International teams. Bonus Ball had some things correct.

3) Make viewing easily accesible to include standings, charts, dates, times, rules and whatever else. Make info available in one location. Live up to date info is a must. A fan shouldn't have to be an internet detective to follow the game he loves. It's sad when a fan resorts to following a forum thread to find out what's happening.

4) I love 10 ball on a 9 ft table. I fully understand if this isn't the game of choice. The IPT had some things right.

5) The Mosconi Cup is exciting. Short race matches, short viewing days. The format changes (singles, team, doubles). Something could be learned from this. Maybe 3 man teams, 1 single, 1 double, 1 team match against the opponents team each week. Top teams meet for championships.

6) Shot-freaking-clock. Slow play is a knife to the liver of pool. In fact, after 3 shot clock violations, I believe the opposing team should be allowed to club the offenders "live on the stream". :thumbup: Just joking. But, keep the game fluid and moving to keep it interesting.

Did I mention time or the lack of it? Even golf recently has been promoting the nine hole golf day. This is an attempt to get people out to the links. Nobody has time.

A short, fast burst of non-stop excitement. No, the best player doesn't have to be the winner each week. The absolute best wasn't fully established playing races to 100 (I loved those when I had time). So, don't try, place efforts toward entertainment. These short races build parody. Side show challenges could be allowed to break out afterward and be streamed at a later date.

Thanks for asking for input.
 
chevybob20 said:
I have no idea how to make the money work but I do know what I like to watch. I don't have time for the current formats. When I do, I would much rather be playing. If I play in weekend tourneys, I'll miss a good portion of events. I only get 3 weekends out of every five off. They can't be designated for pool unless I wish to be single.

1) I would like to see a format that doesn't take all weekend much less all day. A 2-4 hour block of time would be great.

2) Give us fans something to relate to. Give us regional teams including International teams. Bonus Ball had some things correct.

3) Make viewing easily accesible to include standings, charts, dates, times, rules and whatever else. Make info available in one location. Live up to date info is a must. A fan shouldn't have to be an internet detective to follow the game he loves. It's sad when a fan resorts to following a forum thread to find out what's happening.

4) I love 10 ball on a 9 ft table. I fully understand if this isn't the game of choice. The IPT had some things right.

5) The Mosconi Cup is exciting. Short race matches, short viewing days. The format changes (singles, team, doubles). Something could be learned from this. Maybe 3 man teams, 1 single, 1 double, 1 team match against the opponents team each week. Top teams meet for championships.

6) Shot-freaking-clock. Slow play is a knife to the liver of pool. In fact, after 3 shot clock violations, I believe the opposing team should be allowed to club the offenders "live on the stream". :thumbup: Just joking. But, keep the game fluid and moving to keep it interesting.

Did I mention time or the lack of it? Even golf recently has been promoting the nine hole golf day. This is an attempt to get people out to the links. Nobody has time.

A short, fast burst of non-stop excitement. No, the best player doesn't have to be the winner each week. The absolute best wasn't fully established playing races to 100 (I loved those when I had time). So, don't try, place efforts toward entertainment. These short races build parody. Side show challenges could be allowed to break out afterward and be streamed at a later date.

Thanks for asking for input.
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I think this has some of the better ideas so far, IMHO. I'll add one that I think goes with it nicely: good production and editing. Golf on TV is made interesting by showing multiple groups, with a small number of focal groups. If they just showed every minute of play for a single grouping for 4 hours, it would be boring too. But that's how pool is almost always presented.

The same structure could be adapted to pool: use two hours of clock time to show one full match but with breakaways during downtime to other matches of interest. "Tom, over on Table 3, Earl just played a lockup safe and Corey had an amazing escape, let's take a look!" "Tom, let's take a look at Bustamante's break shot on Table 5, he dropped 5 balls and got shape."

This way the audience doesn't have to watch players dithering with the rack, arguing about said dithering, thinking for a full minute, etc.

Like others, I think a team format would be best for generating excitement.

Cory
 
How I see it working.

If I were doing it. I would think its time to test a model whereby the the People of Pool decide if it makes it or not. I would want a new membership body to support the tour and let the numbers of the membership speak to the sponsors. Then we can get sponsorship based on something concrete. Read the below. Its not perfect but I think you will get the idea based on what it took me 5 min to type out.


Here is how it could work

500k on its own plus...Sale of Memberships=Total amount in the Program

You could have a string of events based solely on the yearly income of the program. A bunch of 10k added money events and let it grow depending on sponsorship.

If You handle this well and you get membership to an appropriate level then sponsors start to wake up to your numbers. Then you can add in their monies.

plus

Trade Shows to raise funds, spread the good word among the world of Pool and grow memberships in the new organization for lack of a better name we will it the APP the American Pool Players Partnership.

APP membership would be cheap enough that people would be ok with joining and would come in levels.

The benefits of the different membership levels would have to be worked out and in order to get into the events you would have to at least have the $10 a year membership. We get your address, email address, phone number and you will be asked to join each year via email and we mail you a membership card.

If an event is $40 to get into you get to deduct your regular membership from the 40 so now it's only $30 to get into for the day. This would get you into the arena first come first served seating. Everyone has a chance to see the players.


Regular APP membership is $10 a year
Silver APP membership is $20 a year
Gold APP memberships is $30 a year
Platinum membership is $40 a year
Diamond APP membership is $50 a year
World Class Individual Membership is $100 a year
Life time Member Individual is $2000.00 one time donation

Business Membership
Silver=$50
Gold=$100
Platinum=$300
World Class Business=$ 500.00
Lifetime Member Business is $4000 one time donation

If you got 20k members with an average of $15 per the 20k that is

300,000 dollars of yearly income that is coming in.

You dont work real hard for it. Youre selling memberships they come in yearly

Your numbers will determine who is interested in being sponsors.

You have to make it work on your own, you cannot rely on anyone else. Everything in Pool is based on standalone business models. So this has to work on its own.

If you have 500k you risk 20k of it to set up an effective membership program. This way if it doesn't work. You send people their money back who bought Lifetime memberships and close it up and you save yourself 480k.

The rest of us we get to know we tried to make something work. The idea is that this is a partnership and its up to us to make it grow. If it doesn't work then we failed but at least we tried.

 
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Again, who's the target market for the business model? The WPBA?, men pros? Amateurs?, beginners?, or is there some other motivation?

What I want ta know, what are the true intentions of the supposed investor? What drives him or her to want to get involved?

If it's money and not the sport, then count me out, that's the dagger pools been dealing with for too long.

There's a GOOD reason why the PGA will NOT ALLOW their announcers to EVER talk about payouts.
 
Has anyone ever thought of running a snooker tour in America? I know it would take time, and might not even be possible to bring in a bunch of 12' tables.

But Aramith does make a set of 2.25" snooker balls that could be used on 9' tables.
 
Island Drive said:
Again, who's the target market for the business model? The WPBA?, men pros? Amateurs?, beginners?, or is there some other motivation?

What I want ta know, what are the true intentions of the supposed investor? What drives him or her to want to get involved?

If it's money and not the sport, then count me out, that's the dagger pools been dealing with for too long.

There's a GOOD reason why the PGA will NOT ALLOW their announcers to EVER talk about payouts.
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I see your point but I have to disagree, Money begots money . There have been countless people that have a true love for the game. That and a couple bucks will get you a cup of coffee. Regardless of motivation, the capital needs to be there.
 
I've read through all the responses posted so far and have come to one conclusion, no one gets the picture as to how to fix pool as a sport. Everyone seems to miss who the most reliable sponsor is, and all these ideas that have been thrown out there so far....still INSIST pool players MUST be handicapped so that ALL can have a chance at winning some money.....what a joke! It's no wonder why pool has never became a real sport.....even the Titanic as BIG as it was built, was still not big enough to carry all those that would want to get on board for for the maiden voyage just because they felt they belonged with everyone else because afterall, ALL pool players are created equal....with the right handicap right?.....and if not....adjust the handicap until they are!!!
 
Ok so what?

realkingcobra said:
I've read through all the responses posted so far and have come to one conclusion, no one gets the picture as to how to fix pool as a sport.

Do you mind explaining?

Everyone seems to miss who the most reliable sponsor is, and all these ideas that have been thrown out there so far....still INSIST pool players MUST be handicapped so that ALL can have a chance at winning some money.....what a joke!

I dont necessarily think so but Id like to hear your ideas. With some backing you sure dont have to give in to handicapping.

It's no wonder why pool has never became a real sport.....even the Titanic as BIG as it was built, was still not big enough to carry all those that would want to get on board for for the maiden voyage just because they felt they belonged with everyone else because afterall, ALL pool players are created equal....with the right handicap right?.....and if not....adjust the handicap until they are!!!
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Id like to hear a little more information please and not have guess.
 
Just one man's observation....last week it was our turn to host the varsity football dinner for our local high school. We had 50 high school juniors and seniors at our house. After they ate they all went to the basement and beat up on air hockey and ping pong. ONE kid was playing on my 9 foot GC IV, and I had other kids tell me that if I moved that 'Big Table' there woiuld be a lot more room for more 'Fun' stuff. A lot different now then when I was a kid!
 
realkingcobra said:
I've read through all the responses posted so far and have come to one conclusion, no one gets the picture as to how to fix pool as a sport. Everyone seems to miss who the most reliable sponsor is, and all these ideas that have been thrown out there so far....still INSIST pool players MUST be handicapped so that ALL can have a chance at winning some money.....what a joke! It's no wonder why pool has never became a real sport.....even the Titanic as BIG as it was built, was still not big enough to carry all those that would want to get on board for for the maiden voyage just because they felt they belonged with everyone else because afterall, ALL pool players are created equal....with the right handicap right?.....and if not....adjust the handicap until they are!!!
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RKC, in no way am I suggesting that the pros should be handicapped in any way, for, or fashion. That would just be silly to say the least. What I am proposing is using league as a catalyst to generate the money, the interest, the sponsors, the exposure, and the foundation to be able to create a viable, sustainable pro tour and pro events that generate enough money for them to actually be able to live off of if not even thrive. Now with that said, we must be honest and realize without handicaps league would cease to exist , at least as we know them today. You can forget about growing them, they wouldn't have 10% of their current participation levels today, if even that much. There might be some kind of Masters league and that's it . Remember, the biggest draw for a league for the vast majority of the players is to have fun. Most are not " pool people " like us here on AZ. Gping to league week in and week out getting their brains beat in would not be fun at all and how long do you think that would lasf? Not long.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Has anyone ever thought of running a snooker tour in America? I know it would take time, and might not even be possible to bring in a bunch of 12' tables.

But Aramith does make a set of 2.25" snooker balls that could be used on 9' tables.
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I'm serious.

It's just a better game for spectators. There's a reason it's viewership is in the millions.
 
Suggestions for this person/persons:

1st: Set up a “Trust” in Delaware or Vegas to house the money and incorporate. Since, those 2 states have “NO” state taxes.

2nd: Have the “Trust” buy a corporate bond of his or her choice with a 5% annual yield that will provide operating income with out touching the principle. 5% on the 1,000,000.00 = 50,000.00 a year for “Many” years. Below are corporate bond rates as of today!

http://markets.on.nytimes.com/research/markets/bonds/bonds.asp

3rd: Use the interest payments to fund the project and never touch the principle.

4th: Get expenses very “Low” by chosing one of the 2 options below
• Must decide to use existing pool rooms and have the rooms bid on being the host site each year to generate revenue and keep cost low.
• Must wait 2 years to generate enough revenue from the bonds yielding $50,000.00 a year on the 1 million. To purchase 20 tables at $2000 a table totaling $40,000.00 in infrastructure to put in storage for each yearly event . Year one 50,000-40,000 = 10,000 plus year 2 yielding another $50,000 for year 2 interest payments = $60,000 operating fund for a event in beginning of year 3!!!
5th: Find a venue and Date that does not compete with existing events and a location with a strong pool market. Maybe partner with a casino like Derby! Maybe Atlantic city or one of the many “new” casinos in “Maryland” or the Seminole tribe locations.

Hope this helps and gives "Whomever" some good ideas!

KD
 
A real good start would be the acknowledgement that the industry needs professionals from outside the industry. Professional business development, accounting, financing, marketing, sales, promotion, and organization individuals who have experience with other major professional sports models would be a great start. Avoid pool "insiders", they have proven their inability.
 
In my opinion,(and of course it will get deleted) I unfortunately honestly believe pool in America is dead!

I don't think it can be revived. I think technology, the pussification of America, and the bad rap pool in general has will not let it come back!

As I say this, I want everyone to understand that I hate writing these words. But we all have to face reality. Pool is all but done with in America! Like life, it comes and then it goes!

I love pool!!! But this post started out with any post "not" contributing to the idea will be deleted! There is 75% of the problem, its been already presumed that any ideas that people on the decision making committee dont agree with will be deleted!

I know why the op wrote that and that's unfortunate, but that's what's wrong!

The op said 500k donation with a matched donation from the pool world? Are you serious about that? What does 1 mil buy today???

It's gonna take ALOT more that a mil to get this off the ground! Reason being is you really need to think what your up against! When you realize what the downfall of pool is, then you can begin to understand, adapt, and overcome the dilemma!

There is a lot more than 1 or 2 things wrong with pool! When you "fix" the players, the tournies, and the advertisement, then you can deal with the most difficult problem of all,,,, the game and the "how" to get more involved!

I mean this with all sincerity, good luck and God bless

Eli
 
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