APA Nationals...like playing at your local tavern

T

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just returned from the National Singles in Vegas. This is not an excuse for getting beat. Been there, done that and I can take losing like a gentleman. But the APA should be embarassed asking us to travel to Vegas to play on equipment so sub par, it's like playing on some of our local bar establishment tables.

Somewhere down the road, without knowing the details, APA switched from Diamonds to Valleys to the detriment of all players who truly understand and appreciate good competition played on good equipment. These (non-Simonis) tables are beat up, have one to two inch unintended cue ball movement, have dead, deader and deadest rails, and the most decrepit balls (with heavy cueball) that appear to have never been cleaned in the last four years (understanding that a ball without any finish is difficult to bring to a shine). This is also not a total knock on Valleys. Our local pool room has way nicer Valleys than those provided in Vegas.

Agree, we are all playing on the same equipment, but that's not my point. I believe a National event should make available the best scenario to flush out the best players across the land...or why bother, when I can drive five minutes up the street and loath the downhill 4x6 Sears replica of a pool table.

Love the game, love the challenges and would like to keep making the effort to get to Vegas...but, wake up APA.
 
Listen, I've been saying the same sh!t for years.

APA puts on the worse national event in any sport every freaking year!

Do you think they care? NOPE. Not one bit. Why don't they care? Because it would eat right into their profits, and stupid APA players will continue to pay and play weekly. Not until all the teams in the APA band together and boycott the APA.

If everyone said starting in may we are not showing up to play weekly APA league, I guarantee you after 6-8 weeks of no money coming in they would give into are request to have either diamond or new valley tables at national events.

Problem is the players, can they hold out? Nope. I could, I could even get my team to hold out, but too many others would fold.

Bact to origional post, APA should be ashamed of themselves.
 
I just got back today and was debating starting a thread about this myself. I was extremely disappointed with the equipment. Here is my list of complaints:

1. Worn Cloth from day 1. These tables clearly have not been reclothed in quite some time. Given they're probably only used for tournaments, I'd say it's been years.

2. Cheap Aramith balls & magnetic cueball. It's the 21 century. We have lasers that can determine which is the cueball and girls like lasers.

3. Soft Plastic Racks. How can I demand a perfect rack when I know it's impossible to do? Slugs were rampant.

4. Old Valley Tables. The rails were mildly inconsistent. I'd find the occasional dead spot. Guys were winning/losing lags from two diamonds out. I mean, c'mon, who wins a lag from the second diamond?
 
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this is a pic from tap nationals the year i went. look at all those beautiful diamond tables!!! cloth was perfect on every one of them!!!
 
I don't play APA but went out last year to try finding a few games. I was appalled at the table conditions. Worst of all, every time I tried to gamble with somebody, they told me that if the APA caught them gambling then they'd be banned. If I didn't have fun drinking with friends & laughing at the lack of dress code (if you have been then you understand), then i'd have had a horrible trip. But the 1982 trailer park beauty pageant & copious amounts of bad booz made it a pretty good time.
 
Sounds like the same horrible Valley tables at the VNEA Indiana state tournament this year. Worn-out cloth and dull lifeless balls.
 
i agree i was at the vnea at indy at the tables were horrible. how can they have a great new table next to a wore out table with a heavy cue ball on it while switching between them playing a team event. it is very sad for a state or national cometiotion to have such bad equipment
 
i had a great time at the NSC event and I want to go back next year. The equipment wasnt consistent but overall I saw quite a few players putting together 3/4/5 packs of both 8 and 9 ball. The equipment wasnt steller but it worked out imo. I had one table with a rail that went "DUNK" when a ball it it and made sure to never bank off that rail.

The seeding of the tournament, where they lump all the killers together and put the lambs all to themselves is one of the problems I have with the event. Alex Olinger struggles in the bracket of 32 at the bottom but let him get out to final 8 and then final 4 and he was just raping and pillaging, beating his opponents like 75-15/75-13. It just seems to me that the system, as designed , will have the guy who out of the "Mad Max Thunderdome" bracket of the top 32 seeds in the event is coasting going into the final day. I wish the event tossed all the 9s together in a blind draw and all the 8s in a blind draw and same with the 6s. Then take the four winners and they play each other blind draw.
 
Jude...I'm amazed that you don't know this already. The APA has nothing to do with the tables. They are farmed out to a third party. Obviously whoever supplied the tables this year brought the "crap" Valley tables...but it's not the APA's doing. Perhaps they will take notice, and use somebody else for the team event in August...but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm pretty sure that APA quit using Diamonds because of disputes between owners of the two companies involved...mostly on APA's end.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Jude Rosenstock said:
I just got back today and was debating starting a thread about this myself. I was extremely disappointed with the equipment. Here is my list of complaints:

1. Worn Cloth from day 1. These tables clearly have not been reclothed in quite some time. Given they're probably only used for tournaments, I'd say it's been years.

2. Cheap Aramith balls & magnetic cueball. It's the 21 century. We have lasers that can determine which is the cueball and girls like lasers.

3. Soft Plastic Racks. How can I demand a perfect rack when I know it's impossible to do? Slugs were rampant.

4. Old Valley Tables. The rails were mildly inconsistent. I'd find the occasional dead spot. Guys were winning/losing lags from two diamonds out. I mean, c'mon, who wins a lag from the second diamond?
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
...I'm pretty sure that APA quit using Diamonds because of disputes between owners of the two companies involved...mostly on APA's end.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

You mean like the fact that the owner of the APA's biggest competitor has an interest in Diamond? :wink:

It chicken sh!t and childish, and it is at the expense of their own rank and file members.
 
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Scott Lee said:
Jude...I'm amazed that you don't know this already. The APA has nothing to do with the tables. They are farmed out to a third party. Obviously whoever supplied the tables this year brought the "crap" Valley tables...but it's not the APA's doing. Perhaps they will take notice, and use somebody else for the team event in August...but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm pretty sure that APA quit using Diamonds because of disputes between owners of the two companies involved...mostly on APA's end.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, I was commenting on the quality if the equipment, not the business relationships of the APA. That's not my concern. I was disappointed and explained why. My criticism is directed at whomever is responsible whether it be the APA, some third party or Mickey Mouse. I was there and can say first hand that everyone was talking about it.
 
I heard from quite a few ppl how crappy the tables are at the nationals for the last few events they have had. Considering that the cities here in Charlotte use 80+ very nice, very clean Diamond BBs I can understand their complaints. Pretty cruddy to find that the equipment you play on at every local level is far above what you have to play on at the big show.
 
gunzby said:
I heard from quite a few ppl how crappy the tables are at the nationals for the last few events they have had. Considering that the cities here in Charlotte use 80+ very nice, very clean Diamond BBs I can understand their complaints. Pretty cruddy to find that the equipment you play on at every local level is far above what you have to play on at the big show.
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Pool must be huge in North Carolina, I keep hearing about it all the time.
 
Valleys

TeeA said:
Just returned from the National Singles in Vegas. This is not an excuse for getting beat. Been there, done that and I can take losing like a gentleman. But the APA should be embarassed asking us to travel to Vegas to play on equipment so sub par, it's like playing on some of our local bar establishment tables.

Somewhere down the road, without knowing the details, APA switched from Diamonds to Valleys to the detriment of all players who truly understand and appreciate good competition played on good equipment. These (non-Simonis) tables are beat up, have one to two inch unintended cue ball movement, have dead, deader and deadest rails, and the most decrepit balls (with heavy cueball) that appear to have never been cleaned in the last four years (understanding that a ball without any finish is difficult to bring to a shine). This is also not a total knock on Valleys. Our local pool room has way nicer Valleys than those provided in Vegas.

Agree, we are all playing on the same equipment, but that's not my point. I believe a National event should make available the best scenario to flush out the best players across the land...or why bother, when I can drive five minutes up the street and loath the downhill 4x6 Sears replica of a pool table.

Love the game, love the challenges and would like to keep making the effort to get to Vegas...but, wake up APA.
Click to expand...
Its a business! They spend money to hold these events. The more they spend the less they profit. Also keep in mind these tables (Diamonds) are in demand and there are only so many to rent from the Diamond renting people. Maybe they were unavailable maybe not. Obviously a Diamond plays way better than a Valley, but the true beauty is the consistency from table to table. The BCA event in Vegas has almost 200 Diamonds in two rooms and they play much the same table to table. If they don't they shut that table down and mechanics come in and do their magic. You get what you pay for!
 
I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I'll take a WELL MAINTAINED valley over a diamond any day. I'm tired of aiming all my kicks and banks nearly ten degrees past the natural angle of every other table in the world except the diamond bb table. I'm also tired of slow rolling everything because I don't want the CB to go four rails around the table from a short punch shot that normaly affords two rail position on every other table in the world. The diamonds provide the best pockets, balls, and racks in the business but their rails ruin the game. I suppose if you're a younger player and it's all you know, then it's a great table. I was extremely pleased to see the IL state acs tournament played on Valleys despite the cue ball. At least I knew where the cb was going to be after pocketing the OB. Like I said, I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I don't think a table should change the way the game is played. jmho
 
JolietJames said:
I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I'll take a WELL MAINTAINED valley over a diamond any day. I'm tired of aiming all my kicks and banks nearly ten degrees past the natural angle of every other table in the world except the diamond bb table. I'm also tired of slow rolling everything because I don't want the CB to go four rails around the table from a short punch shot that normaly affords two rail position on every other table in the world. The diamonds provide the best pockets, balls, and racks in the business but their rails ruin the game. I suppose if you're a younger player and it's all you know, then it's a great table. I was extremely pleased to see the IL state acs tournament played on Valleys despite the cue ball. At least I knew where the cb was going to be after pocketing the OB. Like I said, I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I don't think a table should change the way the game is played. jmho
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Hey JoiletJames, I think in this instance, the table brand was the least of the concerns. I'll admit, I would prefer Diamonds BUT what I think most people wanted was well-maintained and proper equipment. We were using soft plastic racks and old cloth.
 
Did you also have to pay for the use of the tables? Even in your matches? This is what we had to do the time we went to the team APA tournament. I was amazed. A dollar a game. Who keeps this money? If this is supposed to cover the cost of tables then new cloth should be put on when the tables get to the condition you guys are describing.
At the SBE I think is was only fifty cents for the practice tables and matches for the TAP league matches were free.
 
kaznj said:
Did you also have to pay for the use of the tables? Even in your matches? This is what we had to do the time we went to the team APA tournament. I was amazed. A dollar a game. Who keeps this money? If this is supposed to cover the cost of tables then new cloth should be put on when the tables get to the condition you guys are describing.
At the SBE I think is was only fifty cents for the practice tables and matches for the TAP league matches were free.
Click to expand...

No, we didn't have to pay for games during our matches but I would have been happy to had it meant newer equipment.

For the record though, everyone was playing under the same circumstances and I cannot say the equipment had any impact on the outcome of any of my matches. I was having a difficult time making balls (emphasis on plural) on the break as were my opponents and in barbox 8ball, this matters a lot. In fact, most of the time, it looked like we were breaking 10mph with most of the balls staying downtable.
 
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