Archer's View on Diamond tables

realkingcobra said:
All Diamond tables used in tournaments, including the DCC, use the Super Aramith Pro balls;)
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You are wrong, rkc. Johnny came in and said "where are those centennials? I want to play with them." I had brought my own set of centennials down. Some people used them and some used the aramith provided by DCC. I know because I am the guy who pulled them out of the closet and put them on the table.

Johnny's balls had been cleaned with Brillianize. They broke out nice and did not skid for at least 146 balls. Maybe something got on them during the run. Maybe something from the pockets. It wasn't really discussed at the time. I watched the entire run.

http://vimeo.com/18324031
 
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FORD vs CHEVY

DIAMOND vs GOLD CROWN

if anyone thinks there is an answer, I do believe you are mistaken

more so in pool as both players are playing on the same table at the same time... so what's the big deal?

kind of like complaining about the wind in a game of golf...

fun to see diehards on either front defend their preferences but not exactly a "death bed memory" deal... oh, if only I had played on a Diamond I would have had a more fulfilling life
 
I would be more apt to blame the cloth rather than the table. Seems skid would be caused by lack of friction between the ball and the cloth. Maybe Simonis has changed their recipe and using too much nylon. Maybe the cloth is being stretched too tight. Whatever... I don't see the table being the problem at all.
 
dmgwalsh said:
You are wrong, rkc. Johnny came in and said "where are those centennials? I want to play with them." I had brought my own set of centennials down. Some people used them and some used the aramith provided by DCC. I know because I am the guy who pulled them out of the closet and put them on the table.

Johnny's balls had been cleaned with Brillianize. They broke out nice and did not skid for at least 146 balls. Maybe something got on them during the run. Maybe something from the pockets. It wasn't really discussed at the time. I watched the entire run.
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Maybe Archer should do what Earl did at CJ's when he put the 10
pack +1 for the million on George Breedlooves best man (Mannino?). After each rack, Earl took a white cloth and wiped off the balls before he broke, mind you that at this time the Gold Crowns had a different composite pocket and the pocket liners were coming off on too the balls much like an eraser. They were great pockets, but not as good as the grey ones on the GCII's that left ZERO debris on to the object balls. Maybe the precedent is, after 100 balls have been pocketed in straight pool they should be cleaned. In tennis they change out balls during the match because of wear and announcers talk about that factor and how it affects play, maybe in pool during the middle of each match the balls should be cleaned, sounds reasonable to me. Keep in mind, our sport is finallly evolving because and its on a world scale now, this too me seems like what every sport probably goes thru when it's evolving, the NFL changes and improves rules every year.
 
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Archers View

A lot of the time when the balls are skidding when I shoot , I have found I am not lining up precisely. Probably not the same fault with Archer.
 
A good number of things mentioned here are contributers to skid, but there is one thing all skids have in common. They are all hit very softly.

But the real question is why does the skid always wait for a critical shot to show itself?
 
dabarbr said:
A good number of things mentioned here are contributers to skid, but there is one thing all skids have in common. They are all hit very softly.

But the real question is why does the skid always wait for a critical shot to show itself?
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LOL, cause if it weren't a funny angle you had to hit soft and maybe even with a touch of inside english, it wouldn't be critical in the first place. It would just be an easy shot. :shrug:
 
For those thinking it's the table -

If you took a Diamond with brand new Simonis 860 cloth (or any cloth for that matter) and shot 1000 balls, and 250 shots skidded...

then...

took the cloth off and placed it on a Gold Crown and shot 1000 balls (same balls), do you honestly think it would skid more or less?

Disregard cloth wear, chalk, dirt, ball wear, etc.

If you honestly think the results would be vastly different under this scenario, you are probably clinically diagnosable as insane. Seek help.

My guess on balls that skid is pretty simple - you hit the cue ball bad. We all do it, even the pros.
 
Moonraker said:
For those thinking it's the table -

If you took a Diamond with brand new Simonis 860 cloth (or any cloth for that matter) and shot 1000 balls, and 250 shots skidded...

then...

took the cloth off and placed it on a Gold Crown and shot 1000 balls (same balls), do you honestly think it would skid more or less?

Disregard cloth wear, chalk, dirt, ball wear, etc.

If you honestly think the results would be vastly different under this scenario, you are probably clinically diagnosable as insane. Seek help.

My guess on balls that skid is pretty simple - you hit the cue ball bad. We all do it, even the pros.
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If one table left marks on the balls from the pockets and the other didn't then I would believe the results could be vastly different.

Did you read the whole thread?
 
I stated disregard all the variables such as the one you mention.

When nothing can be proven, anything can be a cause. Chalk, scuffs, felt, table, cloth, wood, angles, lighting, electricity, humidity, tip, cue maker, alignment of stars, horoscope, weather, camera flash, shelf depth, molecular makeup of balls, etc. etc. etc. Pick whatever excuse you choose that day and no one can prove you wrong. Gotta love it.

So I'm changing my reason for skidded balls from "badly hit cue ball" to "photon deflection from the cue ball to the object ball because of incandescent lighting". Feel free to use my excuse and change the lighting type to your pool room.


Luxury said:
If one table left marks on the balls from the pockets and the other didn't then I would believe the results could be vastly different.

Did you read the whole thread?
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If shooting pool creates static electricity could we possibly convince the White House that pool is the answer to our energy needs and somehow get our hands on some stimulus money?

This could save pool in America.
 
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He hit that ball hard and it didn't seem to skid to me. In MHO, I think he just plain missed it. He said, how did I not hit the 11, which from my point of view, he hit too much of the object ball and didn't cut it enough.

On another note.....He is a great player and I'm not taking anything away from his play, but the man can put you to sleep playing 9 ball, let alone 14:1. Just sayin:grin:
 
I don't think he used inside English. Putting inside while against the rail when there isn't any real benefit from the inside seems unlikely but I could be wrong.

When I first read the original post I visualized Johnny saying that in an interview or loudly for everyone to hear. Watching the video it seemed more like he said it under his breath to just a couple of people if not just muttering to himself.

Also I can see why the op brought it up way after the fact as the video was just posted recently.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Well, I had a somewhat similar question for RKC concening his statement that the Super Pros and Centennials have different compositions, at least in terms of the finish. Just because they are both made by Saluc in and of itself doesn't mean much since Saluc makes many different balls at different price points that differ in quality. But in regard to the Super Pros and Centennials it says right on Saluc's website that these two are the same ball:

"As the top of the line, the Super Aramith PRO set distinguishes itself by its beautiful design and numbers and the maximized in-depth vitrification of its More importantly, it is a fully matched professional set, where precise calibration of each ball guarantees maximum consistency within the set. The Super Aramith PRO also exists in the Centennial design produced for Brunswick."

BTW, that is a paste of the quote. I know it doesn't read quite right. It appears that first sentence is unfinished.

RKC, may I ask where you got this info on the difference in these balls? I'd like to find out more about this because I always thought the difference was just in the graphics. Thanks. :thumbup:
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All you have to do is look at the finish of the Super Aramith Pro balls after playing with them for a couple of weeks vs the Brunswick Centennials, the balls don't have a shine left on them, the Centennials do.
 
spktur said:
The 'Earl" comments were recent and all I hear are comments by your followers is about Diamondizing a table. I haave looked at your work and it is definitely first class as to workmanship but this cutting the pocket angles at the wrong angles and such to make the pockets spit out balls is wrong. The pockets should accept the balls snapped down the rails.
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Wrong angles???...well then do this little test. Line up 3 balls in a frozen combination playing the first ball into the corner pocket...shoot the combo, if it goes in...the pockets fine, but if you can't shoot that same shot with just the cue ball and one object ball...and pocket the ball...then YOUR aim is off...how's that?
 
OKAYLETSPLAY said:
A company that supports itself, is what you should say, they are in it for advertisment hence to sell more tables, tell M.G. he makes a great table but he must support pool and donate the tables to use , cant make a profit on them and i bet he sells cars the next day..........it is always about the money.
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Why don't you give up your job...and support yourself playing pool?;)
 
Things are not always what they seem...

A question for those of you blaming the black spots caused by the Diamond pockets:
Have you actually tested whether the spots cause increased friction between balls, or are you merely assuming that they do?​
I also made the same assumption initially. But as I reported a year ago, I found in my testing that the spots either had no effect on friction or even slightly reduced it! I don't like the spots either, but they (fortunately) appear to be an aesthetic issue only.

Robert
 
Wow! I don't know what an "on topic post" would be in this thread.

Back to skids.

I don't know what causes them but I can make them happen more frequently. This is my cleaning method.

1) Vacuum using a Black and Decker Dust Buster.

2) Wipe table surface (Simonis), rails and cushions with lightly damp cloth.

3) Clean balls with Aramith ball cleaner by hand. (I'm too cheap to buy or make a washer)

I promise that you will have plenty skids. They will last for about 4 hours of play before the number of skids reduces.

I have been using Mothers Cleaning Carnauba Wax over the last year. The skids don't seem to be as prevalent as with the Aramith cleaner but it takes a few games before the cue ball stops sliding. The balls stay cleaner longer with the wax. I do use Aramith balls (the top of the line ones but not the tourny edition ones. I'm too lazy to look it up)

Dmwalsh, where did you buy Brillinize. I would like to try it. Sounds like you experience less skids than I do.

If I get lazy and let my table go without cleaning, the skids almost completely go away. I'm talking dirty enough to start to have a slightly blue hand.

I hope someone figures out what causes the phenomenon so we can figure out how to prevent it. I believe it is static electricity picking up dirt/chalk on the cue ball.
 
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