Article by Badi Nazhat
- Thread starter Houstoer
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The thing Badi has to look over is his promotional "action list".
The thing Badi has to look over is his promotional "action list". Who's responsibility was it to do the following tasks that make up a well executed promotion: The ONLY thing the players were expected to do is show up and play, there was no charity or special event scheduled. When we used to play major tournaments there was always charity events and Pro Ams scheduled.....what's happened to this??? This is not the player's job!
1) Who chose Tunica over Dallas (where it was last time) as the ideal venue to put on this promotional Pocket Billiards Event?
2) Who was hired to take care of the Marketing and Demographic profiles?
3) Who was hired to do the Public Relations ie: Charities, Press Releases, Local Interest Evaluations and Media Promotional strategy.
4) Who was in charge of getting the BIG MEDIA ie: Newspaper Stories, Radio Broadcasts and TV Show negotiations?
5) What was the projection for revenue for the event....did they even have one???
6) Who was in charge of the players and management of the event staff?
7) What was the strategy of the Short Term, and Long Term goals?
8) What would he consider success? Would it be to make a profit, or to generate a certain number of viewers or participants?
9) What was the media of advertising and who was in charge of doing the Advertising....ie: Advertising Director
10) What was the strategy to develop good will within the industry ie: AZbilliards, and other internet sources that connect to the fans?
The thing Badi has to look over is his promotional "action list". Who's responsibility was it to do the following tasks that make up a well executed promotion: The ONLY thing the players were expected to do is show up and play, there was no charity or special event scheduled. When we used to play major tournaments there was always charity events and Pro Ams scheduled.....what's happened to this??? This is not the player's job!
1) Who chose Tunica over Dallas (where it was last time) as the ideal venue to put on this promotional Pocket Billiards Event?
2) Who was hired to take care of the Marketing and Demographic profiles?
3) Who was hired to do the Public Relations ie: Charities, Press Releases, Local Interest Evaluations and Media Promotional strategy.
4) Who was in charge of getting the BIG MEDIA ie: Newspaper Stories, Radio Broadcasts and TV Show negotiations?
5) What was the projection for revenue for the event....did they even have one???
6) Who was in charge of the players and management of the event staff?
7) What was the strategy of the Short Term, and Long Term goals?
8) What would he consider success? Would it be to make a profit, or to generate a certain number of viewers or participants?
9) What was the media of advertising and who was in charge of doing the Advertising....ie: Advertising Director
10) What was the strategy to develop good will within the industry ie: AZbilliards, and other internet sources that connect to the fans?
NYC cue dude
Banned
Ding ding ding
Well written and speaks to many important points. Mr. Nazhat certainly has excellent perspective on the industry.
One thing that I want to express (my take away) is that the players shouldn't be given too much blame here.
They are independent contractors, yes, and are responsible for their own transactions, but many of them have no higher education and sadly enough, I feel don't understand the industry as they could.
They seem generally out of touch with the underpinnings of the business-pool complex—except for JA. But why should that be a player's concern?
A pool player goes to where the work is. He is a mobile worker. It's enough to worry about logistics to make a dollar, let alone try to worry about the business intricacies.
That's not a knock on our fellow players, but a reality check. It's the business people who need to step it up.
I admit, there needs to be a reason for the business people to see dollar potential, e.g. excellent pool player personalities.
We had them (neat personalities) in the 80s and 90s and U.S. pool was pretty good then. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
All I'm saying is two things: 1) Don't blame pool players THAT MUCH for a floundering industry, and
2) Blame them only inasmuch as they should learn to market their "brand" much better so as to attract business.
The pool player is indeed part of the business model, yes, but only to a certain extent.
So, cut our players some slack, Mr. Nazhat, and keep doing what you do well. Thank you for that by the way.
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Article by Badi Nahzat
I have had some inquiries as to my thoughts.
Badi and I have talked a few times over the years and we agree on a lot of things.
My reasons for going to invitational events in the future - and his for electing to not go forward and related - but different.
I will continue to do events for the top level players - but they will be invitational. I will not go into all the reasons here. If you wanna know, go use the search feature.
I agree with most of what Badi says - and in fact have been saying a lot of the same things before.
There is a lot of blame to spread around. I know what we can and cannot do and we will be going forward in a manageable fashion and have some fun. My viewpoints have been pretty loud over the past few years - and that is just how I see it.
I agree that some of the 'top players' better figure out where they are 'hanging their hat' - because there are too many factions pulling in too many directions. The players have made some bad decisions and follow bad leaders.
Pool is not going away - it is just changing directions.
I am sure there will be some more stuff coming out my camp in the future - but I don't have the time to get really involved in this debate.
I applaud Badi for his efforts and hope that his statements are not easily dismissed. I also took notice of the 'no chop' clause that Watchez disclosed.
No point is name calling - just time to get back to work.
BTW - CJ - I really hope you can get your 'concept' off the ground. But you have referred to what you guys did 20 years ago. The times have changed. I applaud you for your thoughts but it is time for action - no talk. Concepts are easy - making it work is the trick.
I am not saying Badi (or anyone) has done all they should - but to ignore the non-involvement of the pool player community is just too bizarre to even comment on.
Respectfully,
Mark Griffin
I have had some inquiries as to my thoughts.
Badi and I have talked a few times over the years and we agree on a lot of things.
My reasons for going to invitational events in the future - and his for electing to not go forward and related - but different.
I will continue to do events for the top level players - but they will be invitational. I will not go into all the reasons here. If you wanna know, go use the search feature.
I agree with most of what Badi says - and in fact have been saying a lot of the same things before.
There is a lot of blame to spread around. I know what we can and cannot do and we will be going forward in a manageable fashion and have some fun. My viewpoints have been pretty loud over the past few years - and that is just how I see it.
I agree that some of the 'top players' better figure out where they are 'hanging their hat' - because there are too many factions pulling in too many directions. The players have made some bad decisions and follow bad leaders.
Pool is not going away - it is just changing directions.
I am sure there will be some more stuff coming out my camp in the future - but I don't have the time to get really involved in this debate.
I applaud Badi for his efforts and hope that his statements are not easily dismissed. I also took notice of the 'no chop' clause that Watchez disclosed.
No point is name calling - just time to get back to work.
BTW - CJ - I really hope you can get your 'concept' off the ground. But you have referred to what you guys did 20 years ago. The times have changed. I applaud you for your thoughts but it is time for action - no talk. Concepts are easy - making it work is the trick.
I am not saying Badi (or anyone) has done all they should - but to ignore the non-involvement of the pool player community is just too bizarre to even comment on.
Respectfully,
Mark Griffin
if they had any one in charge of advertising that person did poor job.
i live in memphis which is just 30 minutes north of tunica. memphis is always saturated with ads concerning events in tunica. i am talking about tv, radio , daily nrespapers,monthly magazines , billboards you name it .
every where you look you see ads for this concert or that promo..... except for the derby city classic. nothing , nada , zero , zilch.
pretty sad when you can see or hear ads every day for 2 months about a bike rally down there or for 3 months about a rodeo "non sanctioned at that " but nothing about the biggest pool event to ever be held in this area. we are talking about over one million people in the metro area and no advertising at all.
i posted on here last year and commented about no advertising for the 1st southern classic.
You can slice it anyway you want, but most of the players thought they had the nuts with Bonus Ball and thumbed their noses at a good new tournament and a few that kept them fed for a few years. Get on TV, what a joke. Pool couldn't get on the post office wall at this point. Johnnyt
smh
http://www.ultimate10ball.com/2013/wp/?page_id=46
Your thought on TV may have true in the 90's but in 2013 everything is heading to the internet. TV is scrambling for viewers right now that have left for the internet. The ONLY hope for TV is the internet. All facts.
I just did a search on my Time Warner cable box for CJ Wiley and couldn't find anything. Must be cause he's on the internet.
Yep, TV is gonna save pool.
smh,
Ray
Hopefully that doesn't happen.
I can't imagine ever putting SVB and CW into the same pot. That's just wrong, Hell, I feel guilty putting their names into the same sentence. Francisco, Efren, same thing. Those are people anyone can respect.
But when I look at the number of them that demanded we support bb all the while we were being called names by bb staff, well, they sunk their own ship right then and there. Treat us as if we're not worth your time, and you will find our money goes somewhere else.
There are only a few people that are completely clueless about interacting with others, but sadly those are the people at the helm. Keep sailing right down the tubes, and take a long look at what's been accomplished this year.
.success was not even defined or projected, let alone achieved.
Yes, this was obvious at the event, it was doomed to fail before it ever started!!!
Let's make some educated guesses on the questions I presented:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
The thing Badi has to look over is his promotional "action list". Who's responsibility was it to do the following tasks that make up a well executed promotion: The ONLY thing the players were expected to do is show up and play, there was no charity or special event scheduled. When we used to play major tournaments there was always charity events and Pro Ams scheduled.....what's happened to this??? This is not the player's job!
1) Who chose Tunica over Dallas (where it was last time) as the ideal venue to put on this promotional Pocket Billiards Event? No professional marketer would EVER choose Tunica for a promotion, especially over Dallas Texas (Frisco Texas was where the last event took place, which is a northern suberb of Dallas)
2) Who was hired to take care of the Marketing and Demographic profiles? Apparently NO ONE!
3) Who was hired to do the Public Relations ie: Charities, Press Releases, Local Interest Evaluations and Media Promotional strategy. Apparently NO ONE!
4) Who was in charge of getting the BIG MEDIA ie: Newspaper Stories, Radio Broadcasts and TV Show negotiations? Apparently NO ONE!
5) What was the projection for revenue for the event....did they even have one??? Apparently they didn't have one
6) Who was in charge of the players and management of the event staff?
7) What was the strategy of the Short Term, and Long Term goals? Apparently They had no Short Term OR Long Term planning or goals
8) What would he consider success? Would it be to make a profit, or to generate a certain number of viewers or participants? They Apparently had no Planning so these questions could not be answered.
9) What was the media of advertising and who was in charge of doing the Advertising....ie: Advertising Director Apparently they no one doing ANY advertising
10) What was the strategy to develop good will within the industry ie: AZbilliards, and other internet sources that connect to the fans? Apparently no one was in charge of public relations with AZbilliards or any other billiard related internet site/fan base
NO CHARITIES INVOLVED
NO PRESS RELEASES SENT OUT
NO ATTEMPT AT TELEVISING EVENT
NO PUBLIC RELATIONS
NO MARKETING
NO ADVERTISING
NO SHORT OR LONG TERM PLANNING
NO CHANCE FOR SUCCE$$
"When a promoter is not planning for success, they are actually planning for failure" - The Game of Pocket Billiards
These are just guesses, and "apparently" they are pretty accurate. I've been involved in consulting for various businesses and have been directly involved in several 40-80k Promotions.
To "BLAME" the players for this Event not being successful is ludicrous, especially when there was no PRO AM and they didn't have a business plan for the event so there was no chance for success.......success was not even defined or projected, let alone achieved. If this EVENT was a pool match everyone would be swearing it was a "DUMP".....at best it was doomed from the very first day
lorider;4453077[B said:
Yes, this was obvious at the event, it was doomed to fail before it ever started!!!
Let's make some educated guesses on the questions I presented:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
The thing Badi has to look over is his promotional "action list". Who's responsibility was it to do the following tasks that make up a well executed promotion: The ONLY thing the players were expected to do is show up and play, there was no charity or special event scheduled. When we used to play major tournaments there was always charity events and Pro Ams scheduled.....what's happened to this??? This is not the player's job!
1) Who chose Tunica over Dallas (where it was last time) as the ideal venue to put on this promotional Pocket Billiards Event? No professional marketer would EVER choose Tunica for a promotion, especially over Dallas Texas (Frisco Texas was where the last event took place, which is a northern suberb of Dallas)
2) Who was hired to take care of the Marketing and Demographic profiles? Apparently NO ONE!
3) Who was hired to do the Public Relations ie: Charities, Press Releases, Local Interest Evaluations and Media Promotional strategy. Apparently NO ONE!
4) Who was in charge of getting the BIG MEDIA ie: Newspaper Stories, Radio Broadcasts and TV Show negotiations? Apparently NO ONE!
5) What was the projection for revenue for the event....did they even have one??? Apparently they didn't have one
6) Who was in charge of the players and management of the event staff?
7) What was the strategy of the Short Term, and Long Term goals? Apparently They had no Short Term OR Long Term planning or goals
8) What would he consider success? Would it be to make a profit, or to generate a certain number of viewers or participants? They Apparently had no Planning so these questions could not be answered.
9) What was the media of advertising and who was in charge of doing the Advertising....ie: Advertising Director Apparently they no one doing ANY advertising
10) What was the strategy to develop good will within the industry ie: AZbilliards, and other internet sources that connect to the fans? Apparently no one was in charge of public relations with AZbilliards or any other billiard related internet site/fan base
NO CHARITIES INVOLVED
NO PRESS RELEASES SENT OUT
NO ATTEMPT AT TELEVISING EVENT
NO PUBLIC RELATIONS
NO MARKETING
NO ADVERTISING
NO SHORT OR LONG TERM PLANNING
NO CHANCE FOR SUCCE$$
"When a promoter is not planning for success, they are actually planning for failure" - The Game of Pocket Billiards
These are just guesses, and "apparently" they are pretty accurate. I've been involved in consulting for various businesses and have been directly involved in several 40-80k Promotions.
To "BLAME" the players for this Event not being successful is ludicrous, especially when there was no PRO AM and they didn't have a business plan for the event so there was no chance for success.......success was not even defined or projected, let alone achieved. If this EVENT was a pool match everyone would be swearing it was a "DUMP".....at best it was doomed from the very first day
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what the players don't realize, is that this is part of the economy (has been @ 6 yrs) & they can be replaced w/ cheaper labor. business, is business. (no offense!)
in my business, we lease @ $30/sf/show to vendors @ 12Msf - factor that.
47 shows/yr @ 2-7 days - Greensboro, Vegas, Atlanta, NYC, Dallas, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Miami, Toronto.
cost @ $4K/wk, per person - vendor or dealer.
since 2012, it's down to 14 shows.
for 2014, it's @ 7 shows @ 2Millionsf/show.
because no one can afford to come/exhibit anymore. not the players. not the vendors. not the fans. too many shows & too long & not enough "draw" & not enough $$$$$$ to market.
not cost-effective.
so when the players don't commit - it's a trickle-down effect, that will eventually affect them directly.
and when i walk into every city above w/ all my men who shoot, and no one knows WHO JA, SVB, Efren, etc - or WHAT Mosconi, US Open 9-ball, US Open 10/8/1-ball, Tunica, etc - are....
the consumer dictates the outcome.
and it takes money, to make money.
.
in my business, we lease @ $30/sf/show to vendors @ 12Msf - factor that.
47 shows/yr @ 2-7 days - Greensboro, Vegas, Atlanta, NYC, Dallas, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Miami, Toronto.
cost @ $4K/wk, per person - vendor or dealer.
since 2012, it's down to 14 shows.
for 2014, it's @ 7 shows @ 2Millionsf/show.
because no one can afford to come/exhibit anymore. not the players. not the vendors. not the fans. too many shows & too long & not enough "draw" & not enough $$$$$$ to market.
not cost-effective.
so when the players don't commit - it's a trickle-down effect, that will eventually affect them directly.
and when i walk into every city above w/ all my men who shoot, and no one knows WHO JA, SVB, Efren, etc - or WHAT Mosconi, US Open 9-ball, US Open 10/8/1-ball, Tunica, etc - are....
the consumer dictates the outcome.
and it takes money, to make money.
.
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Easy to Monday-morning quarterback and quote basic B-School business planning. If you have the answers why not grow a pair and show us all how it is done right?
Enough with the "I have the answer but not the balls" posts
Yes CJ, it's really getting old. Johnnyt
When a promoter is not planning for success, they are actually planning for failure"
20 years ago??? I have no idea what you're talking about, my business didn't even start until 2000.
The pool player community had absolutely NOTHING to do with the failure in Tunica......it's bizarre that you would even think about taking that position. Would you like to debate this subject? I would think not, read carefully the bullet points below.
NO CHARITIES INVOLVED
NO PRESS RELEASES SENT OUT
NO ATTEMPT AT TELEVISING EVENT
NO PUBLIC RELATIONS
NO MARKETING
NO ADVERTISING
NO SHORT OR LONG TERM PLANNING
NO CHANCE FOR SUCCE$$
"When a promoter is not planning for success, they are actually planning for failure" - The Game of Pocket Billiards
20 years ago??? I have no idea what you're talking about, my business didn't even start until 2000.
The pool player community had absolutely NOTHING to do with the failure in Tunica......it's bizarre that you would even think about taking that position. Would you like to debate this subject? I would think not, read carefully the bullet points below.
NO CHARITIES INVOLVED
NO PRESS RELEASES SENT OUT
NO ATTEMPT AT TELEVISING EVENT
NO PUBLIC RELATIONS
NO MARKETING
NO ADVERTISING
NO SHORT OR LONG TERM PLANNING
NO CHANCE FOR SUCCE$$
"When a promoter is not planning for success, they are actually planning for failure" - The Game of Pocket Billiards
yes yes..all of these things are missing..I talked to players and they said back in the day they used to do charity events and go to childrens hospitals and things like that..They say it was great publicity(obviously the fact that is a good thing to do for ppl in general is 1st though)..
I will also be willing to bet that Badi is back involved with a pool event in the next 3 years..I will bet up to 500..
For some reason, you seem to keep overlooking the obvious. It doesn't matter how much Nadi promoted it. Bottom line is, the players knew about it, and chose to go to Bonus Ball instead. If Nadi had spent more dollars like you want him to, he would have lost even more.
It's not the promotion or place of venue that killed it. The players blindly following their leader after a quick paycheck is what killed it. There's no getting over that no matter how much one wants to.
Right now, BB is doing what you are saying. They are trying to get it sold on t.v. When and if that fails, which it most likely will, BB will be officially dead. And, the current player leaders will have to answer to all their followers why there is nothing else to attend anymore. Next year, the top player will have to do very well to make $100,000 from tournaments.
If no new major tournaments are added in 2014 not even SVB will make 100k. Johnnyt
Everything is not always about money!!!
I meet Badi Nazhat at DCC and played socially for hours. I got to know the guy and was introduced by Charlie Williams. Charlie and I go back to junior championships!
Badi is very smart and highly educated! He is a graduate of Baylor University which is one of the most expensive schools in America! All the shots at the promotor and the promotional efforts and advertising of the event are not appropriate! He is not leaving because of poor financial return! He is leaving because of being treated poorly!
His article does not touch on the year the Secret Service came to the event after some pool players paid their entry fee with funny money! His article does not touch on the near scuffle with Hatch and Pinegar at a event he attended. He explained how that kind of thing was a big No-No in his culture and his middle eastern financial backers could never be associated with anything like that. The sport needed a squeaky clean image and the financial backing is there!
His assessment is/was that "they are not ready" when talking about pro players. He insisted on a dress code and a code of conduct and sportsmanship at his event. He could not get the guys to follow the dress code and Mike Dechaine won the event that year in a sweater vest and Earl Strickland was dragged kicking and screaming to the store for a vest after playing the first round with out one! Rule was disqualification and they made an exception for his first match but all following matches the rule was in effect.
I saw the low spectator turn out at Ultimate 10 ball #2 in Texas. We discussed the reasons ranging from location choice to BCA pool league and APA pool league REFUSING to work with his event and spread the word or purchase bulk tickets as prizes for league reps and promotional gifts for signing up a friend!
He did not care about the money then and I doubt he does now! He cares about the IMAGE of the game he has chosen to associate himself with.
Yacht racing, Sailing & Polo have the support of the SUPER rich with no financial return to match the money spent! But, its a rich mans toy! If Badi Nazhat wants his SUPER rich toy to be Pro Pool and all he is asking for is "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" then pro pool players are fools to not shed the UNDERWORLD vibe they hold on to like a badge of honor and embrace change.
I wrote about this issue previously hoping someone was listening but I guess not! He finally posted the letter he told me about years ago.
The sultan of Brunei loves pool so much he bought Efren's famous cue and this kind of money is chump change and nothing to the MEGA rich! The world pool championships in Manilla he actually played in! The security and stuff was something to behold. He bought out the Best hotel in Manilla for his family and staff. I will never forget that trip to Manilla. Pool has some fans that are trying to help the game and have the MONEY to fund it! The only question is the Pro Pool Players and Industry Ready!!!!!!
KD
Michael Wilson
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That is one of the biggest issues. The current leaders NEVER have to answer to their followers.
They just keep leading the players into an alley, where they get mugged. They say "That's too bad that you got mugged" and then lead them into the next alley.
The players never stop to ask why the muggers are meeting up with the leaders later.
Interesting insight Michael.