Backers are a dime a dozen, the wannabes

SUPERSTAR

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
How many people out there know of a pool player, who basically sucks at pool, who wants the glory and acclaim, but never get it on their own who then decide to back a local players in an attempt to attain higher status?

I'm not talking about backers who have sound business principles who make good business decisions who are in it for the money.

No.

I'm talking about the nobodys who wants to be a somebody, who go about it by becoming a backer.

Someone who the players prey on as it is their free meal ticket, who end up in the gutter because they wanted a little taste of the glory that can come with being a better player, but got crapped on relentlessly in the process.

Are they really that desperate? Does it really mean that much to them?

I mean, i have seen it a million times in pool. Crappy player blows sunshine up good players a.ss and becomes good players backer and personal slave.
Good player KNOWS he has a slave, and abuses the crap out of them, all the while, getting free entry fees and food and travel.


I just can't understand why someone would want to prostitute themselves like this simply to be recognized as better by association, cause we ALL know they don't make a profit in the long run.

They suck at pool, but by hanging with such and such, they feel that they are instantly transformed into a higher class of pool citizen.

I think in my pool career, i have seen about 20 or so of these types of relationships, usually with the same high end players. Who DO play excellent, but see having a slave as an opportunity to go play everyone, even if the game is out of line, without regard for backer cause if they lose their slave, they can always go to the corner pool hall and enlist another one.

It's the players free ride.

The backer still doesn't get the status they want cause if the reasons are really obvious, they get made fun of behind their back by everyone who has seen their kind come and go.

Every single one of these relationships i have seen, has ended.
The player got a free ride, and the backer, goes back to the sidelines, talking about all the bad games the player made, or the stupid shots the player took when playing for the cheese or some glory story, etc etc.

Am i the only one who has seen this?

How many people out there, know of a person who sucks at pool, who then becomes a players backer and slave?
 
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I am not into backing people unless they are my friend and I feel its a good game.I had one friend who wanted me and my partner to back him,so we staked him,he said it was easy action.We go and he decides to play some $40 a rack one hole with the easy action,we decide to leave him with a few hundred as it was a Friday night and we wanted to go out.We come back a few hours later and he breaks even,guess who his easy action was?......Leil Gay,1997 US Open One Pocket Champion! :eek:
 
Ugly as it is, they are a needed part of the ecosystem in the pool room. We are all actors on this big stage and not everyone can be the star, though some of us think they are the star and ham it up.
 
Some of these poor playing bastards you speak of do it because they like action and can't win on their own. I have never been a "player's slave," but I am a horrible player who backs others.

I will assume you are talking about idiots who are staking games that are ridiculous. I have seen plenty of these. One guy from my home area is famous for busting stakehorses (usually young guys firing all they have).

On the other hand, some of us are booking winners (often from the "player's slaves" as you call them). Of all the times I have staked a game which must be over 1,000 I have lost $140, $100, and $300, $50 and $50. Those figures are honest. Every other time was booked either a winner or even after expenses. Some of these backers actually put players in action to win money (funny thought)! Most backers are doing so because the player does not have the money. If the backer doesn't like the game, don't bet it. As proven by my record, you can certainly pick good games and only bet on them. I've come into a pool room with a group of players slightly better than me and had a bet going on every table in the room (small room - 6 tables at 3:00 in the morning). I broke even on only one of them.
 
This thread title really hit home to me. I can relate to both sides of this:

10 years ago I was a D player that gambled all the time, including with open level players. I eventually hooked up with one of the top local open guys and started backing him. We had a 50/50 split of wins, and a 100/0 split of losses. He insisted on this and said: "I don?t play for less than half". We would go to regional tournaments together, and I'd put him in, and I'd also play myself. I'd also put him in gambling action. He would also ask for cash so that if I wasn't around, he could play someone. He said he needed a nicer cue cause a player of his status shouldn't be playing with a plain jane beat up joss. So he picked the cue he wanted and had me pay for it. He would also play "practice sets" with me, and beat me for the occasional 50 or 100 during our partnership. Finally, he would also ask for an occasional loan (not for playing).

I was naive and bought into the guy hook line and sinker. He would tell me he was the best (and he was a legitimate open level player). He would throw me a few tid-bits about gambling, game making, gambling strategies, and maybe even show me a shot or two.

We had a few scores, and also a few losses. I ended up net down maybe 4K over our approximate year long partnership in games, and then down about 1K additional in loans that I was supposed to be repaid. Of course the gambling losses would not be repaid in a backing situation.

We would go out to eat together, and I did feel like I was part of the "in crowd" of the "players". Now I was always a gambler myself, but now I felt like I could be in action with anyone because I had my horse on my side who was a jam up player.

I even remember one night he SAID TO ME: "Backer are a dime a dozen". He knew he had me, and in fact he was controlling me, not me controlling him, even though I was the one with the cash.

So anyway, our relationship ended and he quit pool for a while.

So we are done, and I am feeling salty, but I also learned an important lesson: Not to ever back again. The percentage is just too strong to fade. Now keep in mind, I?m talking about for all bets, not just the once in a while sure things from suckers.

So fast forward a few years and the player comes back. I'm much wiser now, and he has no power over me anymore. He asks me to back him again. I tell him to get on his knees and I'll think about it. So that ended that. But he finds ANOTHER guy, who is new to the scene, and this guy goes through the same routine I went through. I even tried to WARN this new guy, but he wouldn't hear it. He was in awe, just like I was. Same thing happened, and the player quit pool again after a short while.


Now, I see ANOTHER player who is also open speed stringing along a C player as his backer. It is just amazing. The backer takes him everywhere, pays all his expenses, and is being totally abused by the player. I recognize it because I have been through it PERSONALLY. The EXPERIENCED people in the rooms also see it. The only ones who don't see it is the backer himself, and the new and clueless gamblers on the scene, who WISH they could be his backer.

I will say there is no point in trying to protect the backers or warning them. They won't believe you. The ONLY way they will learn is when they get abused enough and learn it themselves. In the mean time, it is fun as an outsider watching them getting abused.

Edit: For some reason all my apostrophes and quotation marks were question marks on my original post. Fixed now.
 
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iusedtoberich said:
This thread title really hit home to me. I can relate to both sides of this:

10 years ago I was a D player that gambled all the time, including with open level players. I eventually hooked up with one of the top local open guys and started backing him. We had a 50/50 split of wins, and a 100/0 split of losses. He insisted on this and said ?I don?t play for less than half?. We would go to regional tournaments together, and I?d put him in, and I?d also play myself. I?d also put him in gambling action. He would also ask for cash so that if I wasn?t around, he could play someone. He said he needed a nicer cue cause a player of his status shouldn?t be playing with a plain jane beat up joss. So he picked the cue he wanted and had me pay for it. He would also play ?practice sets? with me, and beat me for the occasional 50 or 100 during our partnership. Finally, he would also ask for an occasional loan (not for playing).

I was naive and bought into the guy hook line and sinker. He would tell me he was the best (and he was a legitimate open level player). He would throw me a few tid-bits about gambling, game making, gambling strategies, and maybe even show me a shot or two.

We had a few scores, and also a few losses. I ended up net down maybe 4K over our approximate year long partnership in games, and then down about 1K additional in loans that I was supposed to be repaid. Of course the gambling losses would not be repaid in a backing situation.

We would go out to eat together, and I did feel like I was part of the ?in crowd? of the ?players?. Now I was always a gambler myself, but now I felt like I could be in action with anyone because I had my horse on my side who was a jam up player.

I even remember one night he SAID TO ME: ?Backer are a dime a dozen?. He knew he had me, and in fact he was controlling me, not me controlling him, even though I was the one with the cash.

So anyway, our relationship ended and he quit pool for a while.

So we are done, and I am feeling salty, but I also learned an important lesson: Not to ever back again. The percentage is just too strong to fade. Now keep in mind, I?m talking about for all bets, not just the once in a while sure things from suckers.

So fast forward a few years and the player comes back. I?m much wiser now, and he has no power over me anymore. He asks me to back him again. I tell him to get on his knees and I?ll think about it. So that ended that. But he finds ANOTHER guy, who is new to the scene, and this guy goes through the same routine I went through. I even tried to WARN this new guy, but he wouldn?t hear it. He was in awe, just like I was. Same thing happened, and the player quit pool again after a short while.


Now, I see ANOTHER player who is also open speed stringing along a C player as his backer. It is just amazing. The backer takes him everywhere, pays all his expenses, and is being totally abused by the player. I recognize it because I have been through it PERSONALLY. The EXPERIENCED people in the rooms also see it. The only ones who don?t see it is the backer himself, and the new and clueless gamblers on the scene, who WISH they could be his backer.

I will say there is no point in trying to protect the backers or warning them. They won?t believe you. The ONLY way they will learn is when they get abused enough and learn it themselves. In the mean time, it is fun as an outsider watching them getting abused.
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Now I know how you got your nickname iusedtoberich,lol.Well its an honest story you told us and its good you wised up.I have to say when I back someone we add up our wins and losses,the tabs and then make the split,that is the only way to do it IMO. :)
 
Some folks need status in anything they do. Some are willing to pay for it rather than earn it.
 
Now, I'm actually glad this happened to me. One, it only cost me a few thousand. I could have easily gone off for tens of thousands during that time. Two, I learned a lot about one type of backing and backer relationship. Three, it made me a stronger person. Four, I can now laugh at others in the same situation and make my pool experience more enjoyable.
 
iba7467 said:
Some of these poor playing bastards you speak of do it because they like action and can't win on their own. I have never been a "player's slave," but I am a horrible player who backs others.

I will assume you are talking about idiots who are staking games that are ridiculous. I have seen plenty of these. One guy from my home area is famous for busting stakehorses (usually young guys firing all they have).

On the other hand, some of us are booking winners (often from the "player's slaves" as you call them). Of all the times I have staked a game which must be over 1,000 I have lost $140, $100, and $300, $50 and $50. Those figures are honest. Every other time was booked either a winner or even after expenses. Some of these backers actually put players in action to win money (funny thought)! Most backers are doing so because the player does not have the money. If the backer doesn't like the game, don't bet it. As proven by my record, you can certainly pick good games and only bet on them. I've come into a pool room with a group of players slightly better than me and had a bet going on every table in the room (small room - 6 tables at 3:00 in the morning). I broke even on only one of them.
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I think what your doing is ok,there are times when my friend who might be a stronger player can get action and I want a piece of it so I back him or go half.I like action and to gamble on people who are good players because then I get to sweat it,I could care less about the social status and pecking order in the poolhall,when people get to know me they respect me and if they dont......fuggetaboutit! :)
 
There are different reasons though.

There are the guys who strictly want some of the glory, and then you have the other type.
People who are kind of low in the self esteem department who want friends and want to fit in, and they feel that the players actions fulfill that criteria even though they are getting used.

I have seen naive innocent kids come into the pool room, and i have seen them deliberating their choices as to which group they might want to associate with.

In particular, i remember this one kid who came into the room who wanted to get better, so he started hanging around with the better players, which took him around to some of the weekly tournaments, where he was introduced to other high level players from the city.

It was there, that that whole animosity rivalry situation started as it always does, where someone is always going off about how they are the best, and how no one can beat them, and how they play rock solid for the cash, what are you doing with that guy, and i watched this kid get seduced into that.

So as it turned out, this kid was rich, and when i say rich, i mean RICH, so these guys were all over him.

So of course, he goes with this one crowd against everyones better judgment, becomes a slave, and gets involved with drugs as they all did drugs when they played pool, and later on when he's all washed up and effectively out of the pool scene, he gets arrested for drugs, and is killed in jail.
All because he wanted some of the limelight.

But that's one particular case.
For those types, i truly feel bad for them.

But the others, who after becoming slaves and having a player in their corner, that become arrogant, and obnoxious once the association is formed like they are now somehow special people...
YOU LOOK RIDICULOUS!!! EVERYONE KNOWS YOUR BEING USED BUT YOU!!!!!
 
And then you have the other kind that backs both male and female players to help them out because they love pool. Most don't even go to the event. They like to stay under the radar. If they break even for the year or lose a few bucks their more than happy knowing they might have helped someone that might not been able to come up with th money on their own. A lot of backers don't even want anyone to know their staking someone. Johnnyt
 
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SUPERSTAR said:
So of course, he goes with this one crowd against everyones better judgment, becomes a slave, and gets involved with drugs as they all did drugs when they played pool, and later on when he's all washed up and effectively out of the pool scene, he gets arrested for drugs, and is killed in jail.
All because he wanted some of the limelight.
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Damn...thats one sad story. I have seen first hand similar stories of incredible downward spirals doing felony public defender work for 6 years in the 90s. One case in particular still stands out. This successful carpenter with a house, wife, kids and a solid business trys out crack cocaine and goes all in. Ends up on a 7 day binge where he sells all his tools, his trucks, his wife's wedding ring...everything. Gets popped for a string of burglaries at the tail end of this binge. Loses his wife,kids, home and business and gets raped in jail and contracts HIV.

I too have seen the backer/slave relationships in the pool room. I never understood why they couldnt see what was going on, it was so obvious to everyone else. Low self esteem makes people do funny things I guess.
 
Johnnyt said:
And then you have the other kind that backs both male and female players to help them out because they love pool. Most don't even go to the event. They like to stay under the radar. If they break even for the year or lose a few bucks their more than happy knowing they might have helped someone that might not been able to come up with th money on their own. Johnnyt
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Yeah, but were not talking about them.
Were talking about the prostitutes who follow their player around like a faithful puppy dog.
 
Harsh

I don't think that it is reasonable to condemn all backers in this way.

It seems a bit like badmouthing all the people involved in a nascar team except the driver, on the basis that they can't race. It takes all sorts to make up a team, with different individuals contributing different things in terms of their skills, time or money.

In the world of pool money matches, external backing is needed. Without it, the players would be simply passing the same funds around amongst themselves and where would that end? Most would end up having to get a job (heaven forbid):frown:

I don't see why someone who has the cash and who wants to get involved in the scene shouldn't be allowed do so without being sneered at behind his back. OK so he may be playing the game vicariously, not having the skill to be a Player himself, but so what? Why is that worse than giving up the game because hisr skill levels were never up to it (or were, but no longer are)?

Yes there are some parasitic or abusive relationships out there, but I don't think that it is fair to paint all of them in that light. Certainly I have seen arrangements that are ones between friends and equals, each contributing something different to the party.

And no, I have never backed anyone myself. Yet.
 
Status seekers

I am actually more used to seeing this come up among the ranks of the players that are a step or two below the local shortstops.

Most are not even good enough to know what good pool is so they latch on to someone who consistently tortures them.

Like Sniffer said everybody is somewhere on the food chain.

M.C.
 
Siz said:
I don't think that it is reasonable to condemn all backers in this way.

It seems a bit like badmouthing all the people involved in a nascar team except the driver, on the basis that they can't race. It takes all sorts to make up a team, with different individuals contributing different things in terms of their skills, time or money.

In the world of pool money matches, external backing is needed. Without it, the players would be simply passing the same funds around amongst themselves and where would that end? Most would end up having to get a job (heaven forbid):frown:

I don't see why someone who has the cash and who wants to get involved in the scene shouldn't be allowed do so without being sneered at behind his back. OK so he may be playing the game vicariously, not having the skill to be a Player himself, but so what? Why is that worse than giving up the game because hisr skill levels were never up to it (or were, but no longer are)?

Yes there are some parasitic or abusive relationships out there, but I don't think that it is fair to paint all of them in that light. Certainly I have seen arrangements that are ones between friends and equals, each contributing something different to the party.

And no, I have never backed anyone myself. Yet.
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But i'm not talking about all backers. All backers do not fall into the category i specified.
Re-read my original post.
Plus, the slaves do not always have the cash. A lot of times, they are lured in with the promises of big scores, and easy money and go broke. When they are the only ones working hard, and the player just sits back and waits for them to pump up again.
We are not talking about people with sound business sense, but people who are doing it to fill some void that is lacking.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
But i'm not talking about all backers. All backers do not fall into the category i specified.
Re-read my original post.
Plus, the slaves do not always have the cash.
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Well yes - I can see that backers without any money are a bit of a waste of space. :grin-square:
 
LOFL...You hit the nail on the head with this thread. Like you said, not all backers and it's easy to distinguish. There are a ton of "real" backers on this forum that this does not apply to.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
How many people out there know of a pool player, who basically sucks at pool, who wants the glory and acclaim, but never get it on their own who then decide to back a local players in an attempt to attain higher status?

I'm not talking about backers who have sound business principles who make good business decisions who are in it for the money.

No.

I'm talking about the nobodys who wants to be a somebody, who go about it by becoming a backer.

Someone who the players prey on as it is their free meal ticket, who end up in the gutter because they wanted a little taste of the glory that can come with being a better player, but got crapped on relentlessly in the process.

Are they really that desperate? Does it really mean that much to them?

I mean, i have seen it a million times in pool. Crappy player blows sunshine up good players a.ss and becomes good players backer and personal slave.
Good player KNOWS he has a slave, and abuses the crap out of them, all the while, getting free entry fees and food and travel.


I just can't understand why someone would want to prostitute themselves like this simply to be recognized as better by association, cause we ALL know they don't make a profit in the long run.

They suck at pool, but by hanging with such and such, they feel that they are instantly transformed into a higher class of pool citizen.

I think in my pool career, i have seen about 20 or so of these types of relationships, usually with the same high end players. Who DO play excellent, but see having a slave as an opportunity to go play everyone, even if the game is out of line, without regard for backer cause if they lose their slave, they can always go to the corner pool hall and enlist another one.

It's the players free ride.

The backer still doesn't get the status they want cause if the reasons are really obvious, they get made fun of behind their back by everyone who has seen their kind come and go.

Every single one of these relationships i have seen, has ended.
The player got a free ride, and the backer, goes back to the sidelines, talking about all the bad games the player made, or the stupid shots the player took when playing for the cheese or some glory story, etc etc.

Am i the only one who has seen this?

How many people out there, know of a person who sucks at pool, who then becomes a players backer and slave?
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who has time to sweat this stuff? i look at success and sweat that.
 
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