Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

Sloppy Pockets said:
Again, it's perfectly fine for the man to request his cue back, it's not at all OK to use threats of retaliation to strong arm the guy into doing so. This is clearly a case of a guy being 100% in the right and yet handling it wrong.

It's also not OK to call the guy a thief and a pathological liar, but libel is not a crime, only a tort... unless you live in a state that has a statute making libel a crime. In Colorado criminal libel is a class 6 felony. In Florida (the state Mr. Showman lives in) there are five types of criminal libel. One of them allows charges to be brought against the publisher of said libel, so much of the defamation that is allowed to go on here in AZ could lead to charges being brought against Mike Howerton himself.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/criminal-libel-statutes-state-by-state
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Another internet lawyer that put Detective Google on the case. LOL
 
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Here is what the law is: 90+% of all lawsuits are settled before they go to court. Of those that go to court, 90+% of those who win are financial losers. Mike could have a formal contract with John and it would be worth precisely what the paper it is written on is worth.

Mike is doing the right thing in trying to patiently resolve this. The next smart step is to just get the cue back, finished or not and write off the $700. The next smart step if that doesn't happen is to try to file theft charges IMO and get a judgment, lien any easily found property or garnish wages and go on with his life.

Sadly, there is not enough at stake or potential to be recouped to make any real legal action viable. As I said, this is a depressing situation on both sides and it is 100% John Showman's fault - I don't care for excuses when it comes to personal integrity.
 
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NYC cue dude said:
John showman, whom from here on out shall be referred to as Scumbag, is in breach of contract. He is currently, illegally, holding possession of nearly $8K of another's property. Scumbag was given many opportunities to return said property.

The aggrieved party has shown incredible restraint. He publicly, published the truth, in detail. By giving Scumbag an opportunity to avoid this well deserved "humiliation", he showed a measure of humanity I would have never. It's ironic that you call this "extortion".

The aggrieved demanded the return of his property AND the money, paid in advance, for work never done. That Scumbag still refuses to comply should show everyone reading this thread, and the public at large, that the only reason he has now agreed to do the work is because he doesn't have the measly $700 to refund with the cue. Imagine that, world famous artist and cue maker, John Scumbag Showman, can't even scrounge up $700 to make this right. How embarrassing for him, but more importantly, his name and legacy. This is exactly how he will be remembered when he's gone. This is what he will leave his children. And allow of it is well deserved and of his own making.
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You are a little too happy about the whole situation. Even bringing up a guys kids in something like this is just borderline psycho. This is over a pool cue. Sure its expensive but I bet when the OP gets it back he could set it on fire and never have it affect his life in the slightest.

I get the principle of the matter and would be pissed too. I would of done all of what the OP has done to get my stuff back. But you...Mr. Rich Guy...The guy always saying pool is full of scumbags and degenerates are gleefully wishing that a guy dies broke and shames his kids over a pool cue that you have nothing to do with.

Thats some sick shit man. I liked it better when you were too good for pool. It was a cleaner place.
 
JCIN said:
You are a little too happy about the whole situation. Even bringing up a guys kids in something like this is just borderline psycho. This is over a pool cue. Sure its expensive but I bet when the OP gets it back he could set it on fire and never have it affect his life in the slightest.

I get the principle of the matter and would be pissed too. I would of done all of what the OP has done to get my stuff back. But you...Mr. Rich Guy...The guy always saying pool is full of scumbags and degenerates are gleefully wishing that a guy dies broke and shames his kids over a pool cue that you have nothing to do with.

Thats some sick shit man. I liked it better when you were too good for pool. It was a cleaner place.
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Like always you are on the mark. I was going to post about reputation and work ethic, then looked at what I was about to post and it was mean spirited and a little cruel. How do I know what is going on in a persons life or head? Regardless anyone that accepts another persons property and money should do their due diligence to complete the transaction on a timely basis and a year of false promises is not that.
 
JCIN said:
You are a little too happy about the whole situation. Even bringing up a guys kids in something like this is just borderline psycho. This is over a pool cue. Sure its expensive but I bet when the OP gets it back he could set it on fire and never have it affect his life in the slightest.

I get the principle of the matter and would be pissed too. I would of done all of what the OP has done to get my stuff back. But you...Mr. Rich Guy...The guy always saying pool is full of scumbags and degenerates are gleefully wishing that a guy dies broke and shames his kids over a pool cue that you have nothing to do with.

Thats some sick shit man. I liked it better when you were too good for pool. It was a cleaner place.
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I'm not going to respond the way I would normally because I respect your opinion as someone who has been an overwhelming net positive in the billiards industry. That said, yes I've been harsh, but only because through the the years it is the only recourse customers have with deadbeat cue makers. And some of those experiences have been my own. Not with Showman, though. That will never happen.

Still, until these conniving and thieving cue makers finally realize that their actions have serious consequences, perhaps only then will this disgusting behavior end.
 
Any new developments, Mike? Or are you still stuck $7K by Showman? In other words, are you in possession of your property, or is it still stolen?
 
NYC cue dude said:
Any new developments, Mike? Or are you still stuck $7K by Showman? In other words, are you in possession of your property, or is it still stolen?
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John called me yesterday and asked me what brand of tip I want on the new shaft. He said he is getting close to being done with the project. The last thing to be done is the rewrap with black elephant ear. I will post again to this thread when I get the cue back.
 
Quality Cues said:
John called me yesterday and asked me what brand of tip I want on the new shaft. He said he is getting close to being done with the project. The last thing to be done is the rewrap with black elephant ear. I will post again to this thread when I get the cue back.
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The last thing? I thought that was the primary reason you gave him the cue in the first place??? Well I wish u luck my friend and hope it all works out.
 
Quality Cues said:
John called me yesterday and asked me what brand of tip I want on the new shaft. He said he is getting close to being done with the project. The last thing to be done is the rewrap with black elephant ear. I will post again to this thread when I get the cue back.
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I'm glad to hear that he's at least communicating with you. Fingers crossed that you get your property back.
 
Since this thread went viral a couple of weeks back, John Showman called me twice, including a call on 10/13 asking me what kind of tips I want on the shafts. He now has had my cue for 1 year and 3 days and I still do not have it back despite repeated demands that it be returned in whatever condition it is in. I certainly hope that I get my cue back in the next couple of weeks, otherwise ....
 
Quality Cues said:
Since this thread went viral a couple of weeks back, John Showman called me twice, including a call on 10/13 asking me what kind of tips I want on the shafts. He now has had my cue for 1 year and 3 days and I still do not have it back despite repeated demands that it be returned in whatever condition it is in. I certainly hope that I get my cue back in the next couple of weeks, otherwise ....
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I've never been in your particular situation, so I can't advice you on what to do. I can, however, tell you that once you allow a person to lie to you and get away with it, you are in for more of the same treatment. The person will from then on see you as a gullible doormat that can be stalled and mislead by bs sobstories etc. Empty threats will do you no good, you have to follow through with this kind of person. Better have a date set when you will implement whatever means you have planned to use to get your stuff back, otherwise you will get delay after delay. Best of luck to you.
 
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Maybe

It may be best just to get your cue back, forget the tips the wrap etc. and the $ paid out. Ask for the cue back now as and leave John no excuse not to send it back. It is better to have the cue back in it's current condition then not have the cue at all. This is just my opinion.
 
Quality Cues said:
Since this thread went viral a couple of weeks back, John Showman called me twice, including a call on 10/13 asking me what kind of tips I want on the shafts. He now has had my cue for 1 year and 3 days and I still do not have it back despite repeated demands that it be returned in whatever condition it is in. I certainly hope that I get my cue back in the next couple of weeks, otherwise ....
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Weren't you hoping for that a couple of weeks ago?
I've never worked with a cuemaker that left me hanging like that, but if it were me I might ask for a date certain that the cue would be shipped so I wouldn't have to keep hoping that it might be ready in a couple of weeks. However, I don't have all the details, maybe there is some sort of special arrangement with the cuemaker.
 
You need to mail him a certified letter detailing a drop dead date for delivery of the cue, finished or not (you must make that clear). IMO, 7 days is more than enough time. If the cue is not in your possession, file a police report and a civil complaint. Period. Time to take definitive action.

Hey John, there were still some nut hungers willing to believe your BS. How ever will you defend your "good name" now? YOU ARE PATHETIC. I hope you wind up in jail for this.
 
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