be honest, who really uses center ball ?

[av84fun]

because of the many different tangent lines u incur when playing position for balls it really depends on the desired path of cue ball travel after contact to determine where u should aim on the cueball . There are several aiming systems that depend soley on the tangent line . Several severe angle cut shots are executed better with the center - to - edge technique

Re: tanget lines...I may be misinterpreting what you posted, but there is only one tanget line on any given shot.

As for severe angle cut shots being executed better with center-to-edge, before long IMHO, Stan Shuffett's version of that system that he calls Pro One will, in time, become the accepted standard of aiming for nearly all shots...simply because it works brilliantly across the vast, vast majority of shots and the exceptions are obvious and have alternatives.

Unfortunately, at the present time the "center-to-edge" method is couched in mystery, myth and misunderstanding as a recent thread on the subject proved because there was so little in it that actually conformed to the CORRECT system.

I believe that Stan will soon begin to emerge as one of THE most sought after "aim gurus" in the game....in the world.

Regards,
Jim

 

[halhoule]

Pool

That is true and false (impractical actually)

Anyone with TIVO or some other HD recorder can use slo mo to watch the measle balls spinning in on a great many shots (before OB contact).

For emphasis TOO MUCH spin (or unintended spin) is a VERY, VERY common flaw but to say that top players use primarily center axis (vertical) is simply incorrect.




I AIM AT THE EDGE OF A CUE BALL FOR ANY AND ALL SHOTS.
I NEVER LOOK AT AN OBJECT BALL.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Trying to playing pool without English is like trying to play golf without a driver.
You might not lose so many balls, and you might get down to an 8 handicap, but you'll never be as good as the pros.

Excellent english control is the hallmark of professionals, and the best of the best are usually outstanding at it. It's often those 2 or 3 difficult positional shots, or master safeties requiring english that determine a match.

Every shot that you can master using english is another club added to your bag of tricks. The more you have, the more often such shots will come up and hence you'll have more shot options. That means better odds.

English for running through from one end of the table to the other is such a valuable positional option it must be learned for advanced play. Those few shots alone are worth their weight in gold.

Colin

 

[predator]

I don't think the pros spin that cueball any more than hacks, less in fact. They just understand the effect of spin much much better, know exactly when to use it and how much to apply.

Regardless of one's preference, vertical axis is a must sometimes. Long shots where cueball is glued to the cushion? Or long over a ball shots? Also, what would be the purpose of applying english on straight-ins?

 

[ironman]

Trying to playing pool without English is like trying to play golf without a driver.
You might not lose so many balls, and you might get down to an 8 handicap, but you'll never be as good as the pros.

Excellent english control is the hallmark of professionals, and the best of the best are usually outstanding at it. It's often those 2 or 3 difficult positional shots, or master safeties requiring english that determine a match.

Every shot that you can master using english is another club added to your bag of tricks. The more you have, the more often such shots will come up and hence you'll have more shot options. That means better odds.

English for running through from one end of the table to the other is such a valuable positional option it must be learned for advanced play. Those few shots alone are worth their weight in gold.

Colin

I couldn't agree more with you Colin. I have said for many years that the key to playing top notch pool is shooting the shot that needs to be shot and not the one we are just comfortable with.

SO many shots though are so over played by younger players as they are constantly trying to do too much when the obvious simple way is right there in front of them. But everyone at some point gets exactly where he didn't want to be and then has to load it up.

 

[mullyman]

You can't avoid spin forever and many shots do require spin.
Getting position like in the diagram simply means bad position play for the 8. A good player would have left an angle to get east position for the 9...

Fair enough but that's the same as saying that you never miss a position, which I find hard to believe. Not to mention that what I posted about that diagram said it was a low level player that came up with that shot.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Originally Posted by skor
Truthfully, a decent draw stroke, shooting the CB very slightly rail first, on this shot, will produce very easy position from the 8ball to the 9ball.

You know, it's funny, when I made that diagram I actually took it off of Buddy Hall's position play instructional video. Buddy says to hit it with low left, draw it up table and spin over to the other side of the table for the 9. You may be able to go cushion first but you're putting more into it than need be. I'm going to stick with Buddy's advice.
MULLY

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You know, it's funny, when I made that diagram I actually took it off of Buddy Hall's position play instructional video. Buddy says to hit it with low left, draw it up table and spin over to the other side of the table for the 9. You may be able to go cushion first but you're putting more into it than need be. I'm going to stick with Buddy's advice.
MULLY

Without even trying the rail-first option? Rail-first isn't "more than need be"; it's simpler than 8-foot draw with sidespin, even if Buddy did recommend it. You can shoot it with draw or (even more simply) with follow - no sidespin needed.

pj
chgo

 

[march11934]

I've actually re-discovered center ball since i got a 9' table in my house. It has been a little while since I was able to get focused back on the game. Having a table now means I can get 15 minutes without having to drive very far. The point of all this is I went back to basics and rebuilt all my techniques. I have pleasantly discovered how much better the game is with center ball. I ALWAYS used some sort of English. Kind like over thinking every shot. I would say I now use center about 25% of the time. My out from the break has come up considerably due to center. Also consider this. Center is more consistent when dealing with table conditions or play conditions. If the pressure is on and your muscles start to tighten all the throw that was second nature when you were practicing starts to get foggy when a serious match is on the line. Center can meet you half way. I know a lot of people spout about keeping your game consistent no matter what the conditions. I have seem even the best tighten up when the odds get high. Center is definitely something worth keeping on the reserve when needed. It has a lot of uses...

 

[Black-Balled]

Aside from the break shot and any straight in-ish shots...I can't make a friggin ball center-ball!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... I would say I now use center about 25% of the time.

I think that's a little low for me - if you consider "center" to be anything on the CB's vertical center axis, then I probably hit 25-30% that way. For instance, I used to hit the vast majority of moderate cuts near the rail with low outside spin to "help" get the cue ball even a little way back uptable for position, but I've learned from centerball practice that many of them can (and should) simply be hit a little lower, or even (gasp!) simply centerball at the same height and speed, because I don't really need the extra distance.

Maybe even more importantly, centerball practice not only teaches me that every shot doesn't need sidespin; it also teaches me how little sidespin is really needed on shots that do need it. I probably use half as much spin as I used to because of this lesson - and miss far fewer shots as a result. "Staying in touch" with centerball aim also helps me miss fewer centerball shots - because I practice them.

I don't think centerball is the way to shoot most shots, but I do think it's a neglected skill that can improve the way you shoot every shot.

pj
chgo

P.S. I've talked a couple of my workout buddies into playing whole practice sets using centerball only (no sidespin allowed at all). It's a lot of fun - being forced to abandon sidespin forces us to look at position play in a new, ultra-efficient way - a real eye-opener and very educational. It has definitely changed my game for the better.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Aside from the break shot and any straight in-ish shots...I can't make a friggin ball center-ball!

Then practicing centerball is a no-brainer for you, right?

pj
chgo

 

[skor]

Fair enough but that's the same as saying that you never miss a position....

I wish I could say that....

Truthfully, a decent draw stroke, shooting the CB very slightly rail first, on this shot, will produce very easy position from the 8ball to the 9ball.

You know, it's funny, when I made that diagram I actually took it off of Buddy Hall's position play instructional video. Buddy says to hit it with low left, draw it up table and spin over to the other side of the table for the 9. You may be able to go cushion first but you're putting more into it than need be. I'm going to stick with Buddy's advice.
MULLY

Actually, Scott Lee added that remark. I don't want to take credit that i don't deserve...

 

[Colin Colenso]

I couldn't agree more with you Colin. I have said for many years that the key to playing top notch pool is shooting the shot that needs to be shot and not the one we are just comfortable with.

SO many shots though are so over played by younger players as they are constantly trying to do too much when the obvious simple way is right there in front of them. But everyone at some point gets exactly where he didn't want to be and then has to load it up.

Ironman,
Yes, and it's not just the position we mess up for ourselves, it's more often the shots our opponents leave for us that requires attempting a big shot.

As you say, many players overplay big shots. (though at least they are developing some skills that might come in handy in the future) Such players would benefit by playing some sessions with center axis striking only. Particularly the roll in shot. Spreading 10 balls around a table and potting them all with soft to medium speed roll tunes in your alignment as well as developing great patterns and speed control for making outs with minimal CB movement and risks.

Drive for show, putt for dough. While we need the big shots, we need to play the simple game with precision.

Colin

 

[ironman]

Ironman,
Yes, it's not just the position we mess up for ourselves, it's more often the shots our opponents leave for us that requires attempting a big shot.

As you say, many players overplay big shots. (though at least they are developing some skills that might come in handy in the future) Such players would benefit by playing some sessions with center axis striking only. Particularly the roll in shot. Spreading 10 balls around a table and potting them all with soft to medium speed roll tunes in your alignment as well as developing great patterns and speed control for making outs with minimal CB movement and risks.

Drive for show, putt for dough. While we need the big shots, we need to play the simple game with precision.

Colin

At my age the simple game is far gone. Now, every shot is a different adventure.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

At my age the simple game is far gone. Now, every shot is a different adventure.

LOL. There's a "true joke" in the contract law business: a simpler contract costs more. Many endeavors are that way - simplicity is the end result, not the beginning, and requires the most knowledge and skill.

pj <- 'tis the gift to be simple
chgo

 

[mullyman]

Without even trying the rail-first option? Rail-first isn't "more than need be"; it's simpler than 8-foot draw with sidespin, even if Buddy did recommend it. You can shoot it with draw or (even more simply) with follow - no sidespin needed.

pj
chgo

It's simpler than an 8 foot draw if you can't do an 8 foot draw. I don't have a problem in that area. I would say other than the possible scratch in the side just above the 9 I can make that position 10 out of 10 times.
MULLY

 

[Colin Colenso]

At my age the simple game is far gone. Now, every shot is a different adventure.

haha, I shall start using climbing metaphors just for you:grin:
Colin

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It's simpler than an 8 foot draw if you can't do an 8 foot draw.

It's simpler (and more reliable) even for the many who can. That's what simpler means.

pj
chgo

 

[gulyassy]

I have played middle ball all my career. It is the fastest way to a win that is available. It is the easiest to gage and it will make the dog in us easier to control. I won all my tournaments by the middle ball game and will win more with it. Once you understand it it will be your friend all your life. Middle ball does it all.