be honest, who really uses center ball ?

I align through the center axis every shot. I pivot with BHE to apply english. I never used to, but found this to be a more consistant method.

I do avoid the soft stun shot on cut shots, or apply a slight amount of gearing OE to it if I have to play it. It is probably the major cause of missed shots imho, due to the increased throw.
 
TXsouthpaw said:
Whats center ball?



J/k
Click to expand...
That's an excellent question and one I hope you find the answer to. Have you been to Randy G's pool school, or have you had any BCA certified instructors teach you? If not then I sincerely recommend it. For those of you that do not think centerball is important, I have a question for you. How many tips of draw do you use to shoot a straight in shot two diamonds away to make the cueball come back to the same spot from which is was struck? If you answer x-amount, what was your reference?
 
Center High, Center Low or Middle, simplifies matters and eliminates the variables. I can only think of one player that worked the ball to death in the middle/Buddy Hall. By cueing the ball high or low with nearly the same arm speed, he was able to move whitey around like no one else. In his prime, he was always closer to his next shot, on the proper side, and he was relentless with his consistency. His game alone speaks loudly about center ball. Try working the cue ball with allot of outside in dirty, humid conditions. I think Buddy growing up/playing in humid conditions made him realize center ball was the way. I'm not talking bar tables, tight nine footers. And what Ironman said about Dino sooooo true.
 
I think one of my biggest faults is using too much spin. I think I would be a better player had I not learned the bad habit of using spin-- left and right on practically every shot. It's flashy and showy yet rarely necessary.
Over a decade ago I played in a wpba event--after losing 2 and out I had the privledge of watching the ladies play for 2 days. The seating was almost at eye level so I was able to see where they were cueing the ball.
Most of the time it was center ball, relying on the speed and the hit of the ball. Very accurate... jmo
Did I change my ways? Not really--that's why I'm not on the wpba...
 
Good thread!
it shows us who's a good player and who's not....
Center ball is the most important shot!
In most case all you need is to play on the vertical axis. Side spin should only be used as last resort to finesse a position or to correct a bad position...

Side spin brings more elements to the game - squirt, swerve and throw and makes the game harder. Keep it simple and you'll win more!!
 
Cannonball55 said:
As much as we were taught to do years and years ago ....

Hi,

i realize that most pool players ( and us pool playing impersonators ) all learned the importance of addressing the cue ball in the center when we all began playing pool. I find it interesting that in our progression to higher levels of skill, we quickly understood the value of mastering spin, draw, follow etc; all the while using center ball less and less . We all understand that the cue ball can be manipulated to do all all of these things even if struck in the center ( depending on stroke and velocity ) but the point i am making is that in today's pool, it's all about inside english and stun; and if you're playing 9ball, spin and draw reign supreme

It's a different game then it was 30 years ago, back when a lot of the instructional books preached center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball . Back in those days clay balls were used and players of yesteryear did indeed use more center ball . I think classic players like Buddy Hall and Jim Rempe are truely exceptional because they maintained their high level of play through the change of time ( and pool table equipment ) especially rempe, he definetly represents traditional text book style of play, addressing center cue ball the majority of the time .

It's just funny how times and styles have changed along with equipment . Notice how many of today's top players are all over the cue ball.
Click to expand...


I do!!!!!:wink:
 
using centre ball instead of a touch of outside is illogical because it reduces your margin for error - if you don't get your tip placement perfect on the cue ball and are off by even a couple millimetres, then you put inside english on the ball which could cause you to miss the shot.
Click to expand...

I think a slight error when you're trying to neutralize throw with outside spin is actually more of a problem than a little inside spin when you're trying to hit centerball.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think a slight error when you're trying to neutralize throw with outside spin is actually more of a problem than a little inside spin when you're trying to hit centerball.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

great post! some green stuff is on the way my friend
 
running or "helping" english does wonders when u are shooting at a ball down the rail. I use a low cue ball on the majority of my shots because draw puts a forward momentum on the object ball and gives it a better chance to get in the pocket.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but neither of these statements is true.

pj
chgo

Edit: Especially sorry since you just gave me rep!
 
skor said:
Good thread!
it shows us who's a good player and who's not....
Click to expand...

well i guess you'd consider me one who's not......next time you're in the Northwest Indiana/Chicago area you can get a hold of me and we can test your theory....

skins ------------ likes testing theory's.........
 
Island Drive said:
Center High, Center Low or Middle, simplifies matters and eliminates the variables. I can only think of one player that worked the ball to death in the middle/Buddy Hall. By cueing the ball high or low with nearly the same arm speed, he was able to move whitey around like no one else. In his prime, he was always closer to his next shot, on the proper side, and he was relentless with his consistency. His game alone speaks loudly about center ball. Try working the cue ball with allot of outside in dirty, humid conditions. I think Buddy growing up/playing in humid conditions made him realize center ball was the way. I'm not talking bar tables, tight nine footers. And what Ironman said about Dino sooooo true.
Click to expand...

u are so right about buddy . He ate, slept, and breathed in the center of that cue ball . It worked for him, in his day there was not another living human that played better cue ball position . except for portland don watson ( maybe )
 
Cannonball55 said:
As much as we were taught to do years and years ago ....

Hi,

i realize that most pool players ( and us pool playing impersonators ) all learned the importance of addressing the cue ball in the center when we all began playing pool. I find it interesting that in our progression to higher levels of skill, we quickly understood the value of mastering spin, draw, follow etc; all the while using center ball less and less . We all understand that the cue ball can be manipulated to do all all of these things even if struck in the center ( depending on stroke and velocity ) but the point i am making is that in today's pool, it's all about inside english and stun; and if you're playing 9ball, spin and draw reign supreme

It's a different game then it was 30 years ago, back when a lot of the instructional books preached center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball, center ball . Back in those days clay balls were used and players of yesteryear did indeed use more center ball . I think classic players like Buddy Hall and Jim Rempe are truely exceptional because they maintained their high level of play through the change of time ( and pool table equipment ) especially rempe, he definetly represents traditional text book style of play, addressing center cue ball the majority of the time .

It's just funny how times and styles have changed along with equipment . Notice how many of today's top players are all over the cue ball.
Click to expand...

Although sidespin helps many shots (mostly because you don't need to hit as hard to move the CB around the table), learning centerball is a very valuable lesson. I often practice by hitting only centerball shots (with follow or draw, if necessary), and can do very well even at rotation that way (although I have to hit some shots harder than I'd like).

Centerball-only practice teaches many valuable things:

- what centerball aim is (because we forget)
- how little spin you really need (and why you need it)
- to see (and to look for) the simplest CB path

pj
chgo
 
so many variables in pool . The only constant is that u must strike the cueball with intentions of making contact with an object ball . How u strike the cue ball and where u strike the cueball is all relative to the desired cue ball travel after contact and the desired object ball speed .

u just have to find out what works for u . understand where a consistent "center" is on the cueball in accordance with your own stance and allignment over the ball . believe it or not, the "center" of the cueball that rafael martinez is looking at is different than the "center" that jimmy wetch looks at ...
 
Last edited:
It's interesting to watch threads go so off course. The original post was asking how many of us actually use center ball. Personally, I agree with the original poster. As you progress in your game you tend to move away from using center and tend to use some sort of spin, whether it be low, high, right or left, or any combination of them. I'll agree 100% that for beginners it's important to learn center ball. It's a lot easier to progress at the beginning using center ball but eventually english is going to have to come into the equation. The beginner will eventually come up against a shot like this (see diagram)

CueTable Help



and ask you how to get on the 9. I'm sorry but no amount of center ball is going to get you there, and shots like this come up a lot in 9-ball.

Many moons ago the books and teachers preached center ball but at that time straight pool was the game of choice. Yeah, in 14.1 you're playing a lot, and I mean a lot, of straight in shots, small postion routes, pinching balls etc... but nowadays it's absurd to think that anyone can play high level 9-ball without veering from the center axis. You can get away with some shots staying in the center but there are way too many 2 and 3 rail shots to even think that center axis is going to get you there.

So, I agree with the original poster, as you progress you move away from using the center.
MULLY
 
mullyman said:
It's interesting to watch threads go so off course. The original post was asking how many of us actually use center ball. Personally, I agree with the original poster. As you progress in your game you tend to move away from using center and tend to use some sort of spin, whether it be low, high, right or left, or any combination of them. I'll agree 100% that for beginners it's important to learn center ball. It's a lot easier to progress at the beginning using center ball but eventually english is going to have to come into the equation.
Click to expand...

I agree. I progressed from center ball to follow and draw, and then later to english. However, it didn't end there. Once I became "good", I started getting back to the center. The thing that got me most of the way through the B level was developing a stronger sense of what it feels like to stroke the ball through the center, and then tweak this a little bit. Many will argue that they can do this or that with the ball easily using various spin. However, when you want to get to the level where you can shoot a ball in the hole and move the cueball 6-18" very accurately without touching a rail, I think you really need to know *exactly* where the center of the ball is.

My $0.02

KMRUNOUT
 
mullyman said:
The beginner will eventually come up against a shot like this (see diagram) and ask you how to get on the 9. I'm sorry but no amount of center ball is going to get you there, and shots like this come up a lot in 9-ball.
Click to expand...

You can't avoid spin forever and many shots do require spin.
Getting position like in the diagram simply means bad position play for the 8. A good player would have left an angle to get east position for the 9... of course it's not always possible and sometimes it's not up to you like when you get to the table after your opponent missed.


skins said:
well i guess you'd consider me one who's not......next time you're in the Northwest Indiana/Chicago area you can get a hold of me and we can test your theory....

skins ------------ likes testing theory's.........
Click to expand...

Did I hit a nerve there?

There are many top players that would use spin on all their shots... even on a straight shot on the 9ball... what ever works for a minority of players will not work for the majority of players.
I'm sure you would have use much less spin if you had a snooker background or just played on a very tight pockets table. The common pool table with its 5 inches corner pocket will be quite forgiving but still most amateurs (like the majority of this forum members) will have hard times with pocketing balls while using spin.

Center ball hit is a must if you want to move the cue ball along the tangent line which is the fundamental of position play.
 
skor said:
You can't avoid spin forever and many shots do require spin.
Getting position like in the diagram simply means bad position play for the 8. A good player would have left an angle to get east position for the 9... of course it's not always possible and sometimes it's not up to you like when you get to the table after your opponent missed.

Truthfully, a decent draw stroke, shooting the CB very slightly rail first, on this shot, will produce very easy position from the 8ball to the 9ball.:D



Center ball hit is a must if you want to move the cue ball along the tangent line which is the fundamental of position play.
Click to expand...

Excellent point...and true!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
skor said:
Good thread!
it shows us who's a good player and who's not....
Center ball is the most important shot!
In most case all you need is to play on the vertical axis. Side spin should only be used as last resort to finesse a position or to correct a bad position...
Side spin brings more elements to the game - squirt, swerve and throw and makes the game harder. Keep it simple and you'll win more!!
Click to expand...

That is true and false (impractical actually) at the same time. No one who has ever lived has played position so perfectly that widening/narrowing the departure angle off a cushion isn't frequently necessary.

It is also necessary when your opponent misses and you are left with what you are left with.

The fact of the matter is that proficiency in the use of inside/outside/high and low is a hallmark of great players.

And Buddy uses plenty of side. In the first instructional video I ever bought Buddy was teaching that a tip of side = 1 diamond greater departure angle off the rails.

Anyone with TIVO or some other HD recorder can use slo mo to watch the measle balls spinning in on a great many shots (before OB contact).

For emphasis TOO MUCH spin (or unintended spin) is a VERY, VERY common flaw but to say that top players use primarily center axis (vertical) is simply incorrect.

Regards,
Jim
 
Island Drive said:
Center High, Center Low or Middle, simplifies matters and eliminates the variables. I can only think of one player that worked the ball to death in the middle/Buddy Hall. By cueing the ball high or low with nearly the same arm speed, he was able to move whitey around like no one else. In his prime, he was always closer to his next shot, on the proper side, and he was relentless with his consistency. His game alone speaks loudly about center ball. Try working the cue ball with allot of outside in dirty, humid conditions. I think Buddy growing up/playing in humid conditions made him realize center ball was the way. I'm not talking bar tables, tight nine footers. And what Ironman said about Dino sooooo true.
Click to expand...

Good point about Buddy, Bill. I still feel that Buddy when at his best got more out of each and every shot than anyone who ever lived. His position play was just rmarkable and as he mastered center ball he made the game look so very simple and I can't remember how many times he would play to the other side of the ball making it look so simple and making the out look so routine only to hear a good playing bystander say, "wow, I would have never even thought of that.

I still say that most can't use center ball because they feel as though they are shooting half a shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top