Becoming a good player

[CJ Wiley]

the toughest thing about 14,1 was "staying awake"....of course I was joking

I don't think 14.1 (Straight Pool) is the best game to play with another person, however, I do believe it's a great game to practice by yourself. Johnny Archer told me the same thing, he said (and I paraphrase) "I like to play rotation games best, and when I need to work something out in my game I practice straight pool".

I agree with Johnny, straight pool is the purest form of pool. The issue with playing it with other champion players is the "chair time," which is excessive. I'm {justifiably} not fond of sitting for 15 minutes at a time waiting for my turn......this is just me, I'm sure there's others that wouldn't mind it....maybe with a good book to read.

Luther Lassiter used to fall asleep while his opponent was shooting, I guess that's one solution. I finished 2nd Place (to Efren) in a major straight pool tournament and said the toughest thing about 14,1 was "staying awake"....of course I was joking. LoL 'The Game is the Teacher'

I wanted to start a thread of my own on this rather than hijack the thread that inspired me to write this.

I'm writing this from the perspective of one (me) older player, as mostly a suggestion and hope to broaden the younger players concepts, and mixed in there will be a slight rant of frustration seeing and reading of the degradation of the great game of pool.

Recently a member started a thread asking how long it took to run your first rack of 9 ball.

My first thought after reading this was, geez, the younger players today are really selling themselves short on this wonderful game of pool and setting themselves up for some measure of disappointment by making 9 ball some kind of standard of how well they play.

Somewhere down the road they will be asked to play a game of 1 pocket or straight pool. All that rack smashing and running seven or eight balls, giving themselves a false impression of what a good pool player is, will be crushed. only to be disheartened when they realize they simply are not as good as they thought they were even after running out 9 ball racks.

Wasting time on 9 ball as a standard of your pool accomplishments is like trying to get good at board games by playing checkers when the ultimate challenge that you have not even entertained learning is chess.

If you really want to accomplish something to be proud of, something that would be more the result of skill than luck of the "smash em to hell and back" 9 ball break, I strongly suggest putting that 9 ball crap on the back burner and do this.

Set up a full rack of balls ( they do come 15 object balls to a set ya know) on the table, peel off the top ball and set it up to make that shot and open the remaining rack and then .... run 17 total balls using the rules of straight pool.

Your accomplishment when you achieve it will have been primarily from skill, planning, and execution. Just the opposite of what most likely will be the reason you get through your first 9 ball rack.

Then, as you increase your total run number into the 20's and 30's your focus, concentration and confidence will soar!

Break the 50 ball run and then, go back to that measly crash and burn 9 ball rack. Run though it and realize for yourself how empty the accomplishment was.

Once you become proficient at running multiple racks of straight pool, you will be a player that can play ANY pool game with confidence rather that a 9 ball player who's eyes become opened to how one dimensional that game was to your efforts to learn to be a good player, especially when you are confronted with a 1pocket or straight pool challenge and realize you have been practicing checkers and now someone has asked you to play a game of chess.

Practice the game that will broaden your learning both physically and mentally. That's straight pool, that's my perspective, and that's my sincere effort to let you see the light. :deadhorse:

end of suggestion and rant. :thumbup:

 

[Dunnn51]

I'm biased BUT,.......

This argument is similar to who is the greatest basketball, baseball or golf player of all time? There isn't a definitive answer.

Each game has its nuances and merits. I like playing Fargo by myself as it has aspects of 14.1 and rotation games. Practicing this has really, really helped my BB 8 ball game. Clearly, learning pin point CB control is a huge benefit. Even the professionals can't hit all those hero shots, they eventually miss if they go to the well too often.

This is a good healthy perspective to have toward pool. Anyone that has met me, knows I'm analy...... ,........ analyt,............. I analyze things.

While I agree with the OP of this thread that straight pool is probably best for helping you focus, straight pool also has detraction. One is you predominantly use 1/2 of the table, and do more cut & carom shooting by any ball into any pocket than other games,(hence the high runs). Let's face it: in either game you are going to want to make the easiest shot and move on to the next.

I occasionally play a very good A+ speed who practices straight pool . We usually play 8-ball together, sometimes 9-ball. He doesn't like 15 ball rotation too much. The ONLY time you get a shot is when he won't take the chance on potting,and leave you safe. Last time I played him, he buried me safe behind 3 balls for a 1-rail kick that had to go safe. I hit it off of the rail a smidge too thick which reduced the speed of both CB & OB leaving a shot instead of sending the CB down the table. Straight pool was not going to help me kicking a 7 foot safety off of a rail at angle.

I DO think straight pool is a great confidence builder ! Every good player I have seen starts their play with either straight pool,or 8- ball,or scatter to warm-up. I play very little & would like to learn more, but there are few old-timers that want to show you unless ya payin' them in some way.Conversely, I have learned a lot by some really good rotation players in the rooms I visit.

I also appreciate the OP's passion for the game of pool as shown by posting this thread. I hope it encourages more to learn not only straight pool, but all the games played onna slate table.

 

[Jeff Rosen]

I am not going to knock straight pool as it's my favorite pool game and of my three leagues my straight pool league at Raxx is my favorite but I keep on hearing that if you're good in straight pool you'll be good in any game. I don't think it's true. In straight pool you very rarely have to kick and never have to jump, moves that are very important in nine ball and to a lesser extent eight ball. Also, safeties are completely different, in straight pool you try to not break up the rack, in 9 ball you try to hide the cue behind a ball. Not even mentioning the break which is completely opposite.
Of course I might be wrong so if a poster feels otherwise, feel free to correct me.

 

[Pidge]

I am not going to knock straight pool as it's my favorite pool game and of my three leagues my straight pool league at Raxx is my favorite but I keep on hearing that if you're good in straight pool you'll be good in any game. I don't think it's true. In straight pool you very rarely have to kick and never have to jump, moves that are very important in nine ball and to a lesser extent eight ball. Also, safeties are completely different, in straight pool you try to not break up the rack, in 9 ball you try to hide the cue behind a ball. Not even mentioning the break which is completely opposite.
Of course I might be wrong so if a poster feels otherwise, feel free to correct me.

I agree with this to some extent. The part on the safties being different is true, but safety play in 9 ball is very basic. Get a ball in the way of CB and lowest numbered ball. Safety play in 14.1 requires various other aspects. Getting the ball close to a rail as close to a rail as you can, limiting the number of balls available to make, not leaving a shot-to-nothing and so on. Its very similar to snooker safety, you will no doubt leave a ball, but you have to leave the worst possible ball that won't leave you sat in your seat for the next 30 mins.

I also agree 9 ball has some aspects of the game that 14.1 rarely sees. Jumping, kicking, banks. But can a 9 ball player at say a B standard come in to 14.1 and play to the same standard with those extra shots they know and use so well? I doubt it. 14.1 is very similar to break building in snooker, and a B level 14.1 or snooker player (if there were such a thing) could no doubt come into 9 ball and play at a B standard in it after getting used to the style of the game for a day or two.

 

[Masayoshi]

I agree with this to some extent. The part on the safties being different is true, but safety play in 9 ball is very basic. Get a ball in the way of CB and lowest numbered ball. Safety play in 14.1 requires various other aspects. Getting the ball close to a rail as close to a rail as you can, limiting the number of balls available to make, not leaving a shot-to-nothing and so on. Its very similar to snooker safety, you will no doubt leave a ball, but you have to leave the worst possible ball that won't leave you sat in your seat for the next 30 mins.

I also agree 9 ball has some aspects of the game that 14.1 rarely sees. Jumping, kicking, banks. But can a 9 ball player at say a B standard come in to 14.1 and play to the same standard with those extra shots they know and use so well? I doubt it. 14.1 is very similar to break building in snooker, and a B level 14.1 or snooker player (if there were such a thing) could no doubt come into 9 ball and play at a B standard in it after getting used to the style of the game for a day or two.

I would say the opposite is true at a higher level. A very good 9 ball player will be able to play straight pool at a reasonable level even without a lot of experience because he can excecute every shot he needs to and the pattern reading and strategy involved is not all that unfamiliar if you have played any game of pool a lot. Where as a good straight pool player is likely to find that his stroke power and return safety game aren't up to snuff when jumping into 9/10 ball for the first time. Not to mention the break.

Case in point, Earl has a high run of 400 or something at straight pool.

 

[Banks]

If you want to be a good 9b player, play 9b. If you want to be a good pool player, play everything.

 

[Pidge]

I would say the opposite is true at a higher level. A very good 9 ball player will be able to play straight pool at a reasonable level even without a lot of experience because he can excecute every shot he needs to and the pattern reading and strategy involved is not all that unfamiliar if you have played any game of pool a lot. Where as a good straight pool player is likely to find that his stroke power and return safety game aren't up to snuff when jumping into 9/10 ball for the first time. Not to mention the break.

Case in point, Earl has a high run of 400 or something at straight pool.

I'm going off how I found the transition. Started out in snooker I made the transition to 9 ball very easy. I was putting 3 and 4 packs together within a couple of weeks. Then I played 9 ball for roughly a year before I discovered 14.1. My highest run was 32 for months, and I played it at least 4 times a week. After several months of playing 14.1 I finally broke 50. As I said, just going off my own experiences.

 

[owll]

Im on a quest to improve so I just signed up in Wed nite 14-1 league at Red Shoes in Chicago. Denise Walsh posted on FB that he needed a couple of players and I made it clear that I had little experience with 14-1 and he gave me the ol' you do just fine. First week was this past Wednesday and I got drilled 57-125. I LOVED IT. I had a great time and a few of the guys showed me a few must have safeties. Ill be in with the Big dogs like Bobby Hunter, Ike Runnels and Tom Karabatsos. WOW what a learning opportunity. its only $15 a week and that includes table time. Cant find cheeper lessons than that. I wish I had more time to practice but I make the best out of what time I do have.

get lessons from one of the guys in there, plenty of good choices to help improve your game.

 

[sparkle84]

Any ball/ any pocket, how hard can it be?

Try it, then you'll see.

 

[owll]

title of thread "becoming a good player"....ya there are different things that different games promote, my personal opinion on how best to become a good player.....get on a tight nine footer, and work on stance, sighting, body alignment...and do this relentlessly....

ive seen people with bad fundamentals play pretty well, but its alot more likely to happen if you have good fundamentals.

feet, knees, back elbow, shoulders, all that stuff matters.

 

[Masayoshi]

I'm going off how I found the transition. Started out in snooker I made the transition to 9 ball very easy. I was putting 3 and 4 packs together within a couple of weeks. Then I played 9 ball for roughly a year before I discovered 14.1. My highest run was 32 for months, and I played it at least 4 times a week. After several months of playing 14.1 I finally broke 50. As I said, just going off my own experiences.

Coming from snooker, I would imagine the transition is an entirely different endeavor. Potting of long balls comes at a premium in 9 ball because if you aren't concerned much about distance, position becomes a whole lot easier. But the tight maneuvering, creating angles by cheating the pocket, and long, sustained runs of 14.1 would be quite unfamiliar to you. Also, snooker is quite separate from any pool game in terms of patterns because you are shooting or making position to the same balls over and over again.

 

[3andstop]

Well. I'm the one that started the thread asking about "Your first Break and run in 9 ball"
Know one plays anything other than 9 ball and 8 ball around Savannah. At least not what I have seen. I do however believe it is wrong to put down the cue ball control required to get shape on every shot vs a game that gives you more than one option if you get a little out if shape. How ever I enjoy a good safety match in 9 ball and am sure I would enjoy learning straight pool.
I still want my first break and run.

Well its not my intention to argue required cue ball control but position in 9 ball is usually quadrants of the pool table, falling on the correct side of the next shot, areas measured in one or 2 square feet. Position in straight pool is often no bigger than the size of a pool ball. When your 9 ball run stops short its probably those times when position zones more closely resemble the size of position in straight pool and you didn't get there.

 

[Pidge]

Coming from snooker, I would imagine the transition is an entirely different endeavor. Potting of long balls comes at a premium in 9 ball because if you aren't concerned much about distance, position becomes a whole lot easier. But the tight maneuvering, creating angles by cheating the pocket, and long, sustained runs of 14.1 would be quite unfamiliar to you. Also, snooker is quite separate from any pool game in terms of patterns because you are shooting or making position to the same balls over and over again.

Distance doesn't concern me, but I still miss long shots in both snooker and pool so its unfair to assume a player coming from a snooker background shouldn't be afraid of long shots on a 9ft table. Maneuvering in tight areas, cheating the pocket (granted there isn't much room to cheat on a tv table, but plenty on a club table) and long sustained runs are all part of snooker. If you ever watch the beat players play, often they have maybe 1 or 2 reds that go into a pocket before the pack is split, sometimes they only have half a pocket for these said balls too. So playing position in the tightest of clutters is vital to be any good at snooker - so again, I think you are underestimating what snooker is about. The long runs in 14.1 is a valid point to some extent. I've gone on some 1-2 hour runs in 14.1 and I admit, it was a learning curve and I wasn't used to it. Snooker has its similarities though. Frames can last a long time, and matches days. To go on a long run you obviously need skill, but also mental fitness, the ability to stay concentrated for hours. If a snooker player has the skill to reach 100, the only reason they fall short of 200 is the mental fatigue...the same can be said for anyone no matter what their background who has broken the 100 marker. True what you say about patterns, snooker is a game of going from one ball to another in a set position, but snooker players at the highest level know positional routes like no others. Their ability to kick at balls going 1, 2 and 3 rails is phenomenal when you don't have diamonds to help you out. This ability to see and visualize the cue balls path means they can sure as hell play position anywhere on the table, no matter what the pattern or layout.

I'm just saying, if snooker players came over to the world of pool, 14.1 would be their game of choice. 9 ball is fun to play socially, for money, in league but it makes a mockery of pool and I think that's why a lot of Brits can't take it seriously. It is just too easy and most good club players would be able to jump right in and run racks on their first few attempts.

 

[sparkle84]

Well its not my intention to argue required cue ball control but position in 9 ball is usually quadrants of the pool table, falling on the correct side of the next shot, areas measured in one or 2 square feet. Position in straight pool is often no bigger than the size of a pool ball. When your 9 ball run stops short its probably those times when position zones more closely resemble the size of position in straight pool and you didn't get there.

In a nutshell.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... My first thought after reading this was, geez, the younger players today are really selling themselves short on this wonderful game of pool and setting themselves up for some measure of disappointment by making 9 ball some kind of standard of how well they play. ...

When me and my pool buddies were first learning to play at the rec center, we knew we weren't good enough to play nine ball so we played six ball, generally with part of the bet on the three ball. We also played lots of other games, not just a single game. Strangely, no one played eight ball. The game we played for the room championship was 14.1.

The vast majority of people who play nine ball try to play it like the pros which I think is a mistake for them. They are incapable of running out, so they ought to be riding the money. A few of the smarter C-D players have figured this out.

 

[Mikjary]

The vast majority of people who play nine ball try to play it like the pros which I think is a mistake for them. They are incapable of running out, so they ought to be riding the money. A few of the smarter C-D players have figured this out.

Very true and a great observation. I'm an advanced player and I still do it. It really pisses my opponents off and is a great move from time to time. :grin: Especially when the 9 finds a home! The shock value in the middle of a match can be tough to fade. And I always apologize if the strategy works. It's been inflicted on me many times before.

It's like grinding out a few racks to pull ahead in a match and your opponent breaks in a couple of 9 balls to regain the lead. A root canal would be less painful mentally and physically.

Best,
Mike

 

[Black-Balled]

Very true and a great observation. I'm an advanced player and I still do it. It really pisses my opponents off and is a great move from time to time. :grin: Especially when the 9 finds a home! The shock value in the middle of a match can be tough to fade. And I always apologize if the strategy works. It's been inflicted on me many times before.

It's like grinding out a few racks to pull ahead in a match and your opponent breaks in a couple of 9 balls to regain the lead. A root canal would be less painful mentally and physically.

Best,
Mike

Hell yeah! If I have no other decent shot and the Nina is gonna have a nice trip.

Follow with a b/r and you will really annoy your opponent!

 

[Masayoshi]

When me and my pool buddies were first learning to play at the rec center, we knew we weren't good enough to play nine ball so we played six ball, generally with part of the bet on the three ball. We also played lots of other games, not just a single game. Strangely, no one played eight ball. The game we played for the room championship was 14.1.

The vast majority of people who play nine ball try to play it like the pros which I think is a mistake for them. They are incapable of running out, so they ought to be riding the money. A few of the smarter C-D players have figured this out.

I don't think it is a mistake for them to try and run out unless they have resigned themselves to being a C player for the rest of their lives. If people want to get better, they have to play with the mind set of better players. For weaker players, the goal should not be "What is the best strategy for winning this match?", but "What is the best strategy that will help me improve so that I can win many matches in the future?"

 

[Bob Jewett]

I don't think it is a mistake for them to try and run out unless they have resigned themselves to being a C player for the rest of their lives. If people want to get better, they have to play with the mind set of better players. For weaker players, the goal should not be "What is the best strategy for winning this match?", but "What is the best strategy that will help me improve so that I can win many matches in the future?"

If you're in a match that's important to you, I think you should do your best to win it. Thoughtless people can't figure their odds properly.

There is time enough on the practice table to work on weaknesses. Besides, there is considerable skill in riding the money as I've pointed out in a previous post about "Hotel Al."

As for apologizing, I prefer a fist pump and a "Yeesssss!!" If you do apologize make it as insincere as possible for maximum effect.

 

[3andstop]

The game of 9 ball starts with smashing the balls to hell and back hoping to get lucky, why should ending it that way be any different?