IMO 9 and 10 B (rotation) games are the only games that tests someone's stroke and ability to run balls. C&D players should not play an A or A+ player for money without a big spot; it is impossible for them to win even if they duck every shot. Ducking strategy only works when both players of equal speed in any game.
Becoming a good player
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IMO 9 and 10 B (rotation) games are the only games that tests someone's stroke and ability to run balls. C&D players should not play an A or A+ player for money without a big spot; it is impossible for them to win even if they duck every shot. Ducking strategy only works when both players of equal speed in any game.
The game of 9 ball starts with smashing the balls to hell and back hoping to get lucky, why should ending it that way be any different?
Once you get to a high level, the break is anything but hoping to get lucky.
So 9 and 10 ball is a better alternative to 14.1 at testing ones ability to run balls? Please elaborate...
Stroke is not as important as you seem to believe. CB position, ability to make balls amd competitive match play are what a player needs. Sure someone may have a monster stroke and they can do all kinds of wonderful things with the CB but why do they have to do wonderful things with the CB? Because they run out of position. If you meant testing the straightness of someone's stroke, snooker is the best by far. Plainly because the larger table. Until 9 and 10 ball are played on 12 footers, they aren't in the same league.
9 and 10 ball have their place, they appeal to the younger players so that's a good thing if it can get some young blood into the sport but as far as 9 balls difficulty and ability to test a player....its like Micky mouse and Stephen Hawkins when you compare it to straight pool.
I'd say if you want to really get better, play ALL the games and try to improve at each one. In the meantime, utilize what you know about one game while playing another. Try not to become a 1 game wonder. If you see a player who's game is complete, they play everything.
Rotation games have most varieties of shots, therefore it is best to practice pool. Playing 14.1, one pocket is a must to gain experience in these games, not pocketing and position skill, but strategy
At 9 ball, MAYBE, at Straight Pool, never. I've won games in 9 ball with shots I learned playing Straight Pool that my opponent never even saw. Look at the US Open winners, most, if not all, were/are excellent Straight Pool players and they didn't get that way playing 9 ball.
How do you figure that?? There are shots that come up in Straight Pool that most 9 ball players never see. See my post above. One of the common arguments is that Straight Pool doesn't teach you how to play long shots, more common in 9 ball. I don't know about you but I've never known a good Straight Pool player who didn't spend at least as much, if not more, time on long shots than today's 9 ball players. In Straight Pool you have to be ready for any shot that may come up, even if it doesn't come up very often. 9 ball can't even begin to compare.
Here here..... not to mention if you miss a long shot in 9 ball the penalty for doing so is miniscule compared to the price you pay in straight pool even if your opponent finishes off the game. Not a big deal, its just one game in the set. Another fresh chance starts, and on top of that, you're probably going to play multiple sets if you're gambling.
Miss that long shot in straight and there are no sets, you might be done.
How do people explain the fact that great rotation players have won or finished very high in 14.1 tournaments without having even played the game or at the very least had very little experience with it.
Has anyone done the opposite? Anybody?
14.1 is a great game for amateurs and a good way for pros to get in stroke or work on their concentration, but actually competing at it? Na -- it's too easy for them and it's too boring for the spectators.
Having said that, I do think there is a certain amount of discipline that the top tier U.S. players are missing that our previous generation had. All of the guys that played a lot of 14.1 seemed to have better focus at the table. Guys like Rempe, Sigel, and Varner had this sort of ball at a time mindset that is missing in many of today's best U.S. players and it shows up every year at the Mosconi Cup.
Has anyone done the opposite? Anybody?
14.1 is a great game for amateurs and a good way for pros to get in stroke or work on their concentration, but actually competing at it? Na -- it's too easy for them and it's too boring for the spectators.
Having said that, I do think there is a certain amount of discipline that the top tier U.S. players are missing that our previous generation had. All of the guys that played a lot of 14.1 seemed to have better focus at the table. Guys like Rempe, Sigel, and Varner had this sort of ball at a time mindset that is missing in many of today's best U.S. players and it shows up every year at the Mosconi Cup.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they do still hold pro 14.1 tournaments do they not?
I agree for spectators, it is worthless. But I would not go so far as to say it should be reserved for amateurs.
Great players can pick up a game quite quickly, most of the time. I wasn't aware we were talking about great players. Mosconi, who hated 9 ball, was challenged by a hustler to play 9 ball and finally agreed. After Willie broke and ran about 9 racks, the backer pulled up. The Hustler then uttered that now famous/infamous line: "Whater ya doin', ya ain't see me shoot yet!" or words to that effect.
I started this thread to suggest the best game to play to improve your control, focus, and thinking. 9 ball ain't it.
Concerning oneself about getting through your first runout in 9 ball is like wondering when you will spin a double zero on the roulette wheel. It will likely be more a product of a lucky smashed to hell rack, pocketing of a few balls on the break and landing luckily on your first shot than it will be about any thing else. Repeating the feat if you are a C player, will most likely be the same. Never knowing its coming until after you make the 9.
I suggested playing straight pool to both develop your skills to make your 9 ball runouts more consistent.
If that is the mindless, redundant, luck filled paint by number game of choice, so be it, but to become a better player, play straight pool. Whatever tangent you are going off on has nothing to do with my suggestion.
If one had to choose...
for lots of money...
a race to ten, eight ball,
who do you play?
a nineballer, say the guy can run four or five in a row once in a while,
or a straight pool player that can run a hundred in once in a while.
both very good players imo.
who do you play?
steven
for lots of money...
a race to ten, eight ball,
who do you play?
a nineballer, say the guy can run four or five in a row once in a while,
or a straight pool player that can run a hundred in once in a while.
both very good players imo.
who do you play?
steven
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Banks
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I play the 4 or 5 rack runner, because the hundred runner is going at 7+ racks of 14 balls.
It depends on which player breaks better. If the straight pooler doesn't crack the rack open then he will eventually get steam rolled.
I've come to the conclusion that there are two ways to play eight ball and I'm mainly talking about the bar box variety, after having watched some really good players up close in the past couple of years. there's the amateur way and then there's the professional way. A lot of pretty good amateur players play a style where they think they can constantly work their way through each and every rack. Often times they don't break the balls that well and will even use a substandard 2nd ball break. They will get out quite a bit but it takes a lot of effort.
The professional way to play 8 ball is to smash the rack open and run packages. They don't screw around with the break. They smash it and run. Of course many of them can massage a rack as good as anybody. They can break open the clusters and all that but they realize that the percentages aren't in their favor this way. You are limiting your opportunities to string racks together this way. Just smash the rack and get on with it.
So, in the above scenario I'll take the guy that can actually string racks together playing 8 ball and you can have the clever soft breaking - ball nudger who throws in the occasional safety.
Having said that -- the best way to practice for bar table 8 ball on a 9 footer is to play 14.1. No doubt about that.
If you think that was a tangent what till you see my cosine. Thank you....thank you....I'll be here all week.
I'm not saying he couldn't play that well, I am saying it's a miracle in breaking
I wonder if Mosconi could have broken the balls well enough to run 9 racks?
I'm not saying he couldn't play that well, I am saying it's a miracle to break that well.
I wonder if Mosconi could have broken the balls well enough to run 9 racks?
I'm not saying he couldn't play that well, I am saying it's a miracle to break that well.
I think Luther Lassiter was a World Champion at both 9-ball and 14.1 and he preferred 9-ball from what I've read.
Seems like E-1 has a little personal bias for their favorite game....
I guess it is natural for everyone to gravitate toward their favorite game. I am trying to keep an open perspective.
At any rate: REP for the new guy ! :thumbup:
A COMPLETE Pool Player should master ALL of the popular games played.
I guess it is natural for everyone to gravitate toward their favorite game. I am trying to keep an open perspective.
At any rate: REP for the new guy ! :thumbup:
A COMPLETE Pool Player should master ALL of the popular games played.