Bemoaning the rise of the bar box

Skippy27 said:
You must live in an area of the country that consist of nothing but dipshits and morons as I don't see any of that around me. But then again, I'm not some 9' elitest looking down on everyone from my pedestal so my view could be slightly off.

I think all pool halls should just ban all league players. They are just horrible for the game and do nothing for it except drain it of all the resources that could be better served for all those non-league players that have to stand outside waiting for league to end so they can get a table.

If it wasnt for league players pool would be flourishing throughout the US and we would be getting more and more pool halls every where all the time.

We should start a petition to stop all league play everywhere in the US and we should then have a 7' table burning in the center of town.
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Works for me, brother. I'll bring the gas and the matches. As for the PH's opening, you got data for that? Because i'm pretty sure(and would like to be wrong) more have closed in the last 5 years than have opened.
 
Let's take the conversation to the next level and ask why aren't bar boxes big in Europe? But pool clubs and pool halls still stay open.

And even more so, can we at least be honest with ourselves and admit that this is a factor in the declining American presence on the stage of world class pool?

Our competition is training like this guy...
http://youtu.be/dXlidpDbBT8

When I reach down and search for an answer, it really comes down to work ethic.
 
Luckily bar boxes are rare in Europe. They are found where they belong, in bars. If you go to an actual pool hall, they will have real pool tables. Real pool will be played as well! I can't speak for all of Europe, but I believe handicapped bar box leagues are rare as well. We have actual leagues. You know, skill based, where you rise up through divisions like you would in any real sport. You don't make money, but you get the satisfaction of competing, improving and winning on your own merits, not through sandbagging and cheating. If you reach the top, you could get sponsored (partially)to compete on the Eurotour or WPC and represent your country. People are practicing really hard for a slim chance of having this honour (which is bestowed upon the highest ranked players), even if the monetary rewards are not all that great. I guess that concept must be strange to many of you.

The day you can only play on a bar box is the day I quit pool forever. I can not for the life of me understand why anyone (capable of running 3 balls) would ever play on a 7 foot table if a 9 footer was available? It's a completely different (and IMO) inferior game on the smaller table. That is not to say that you cannot be a great player and play on bar boxes, I'm talking about the game itself.
 
Try getting your average teen,male or female, to not jack with their phone for ONE hour. NOT happening. First they have to be introduced to the game, have an affordable place to play and then,here's the biggie, actually do it. Chances of this happening on a large(or semi large) scale in the U.S.? ZERO
 
macguy said:
They have snooker type pockets very small from what I remember. I played on tables in Italy where the ball bearly fit in the pocket it was like a 7 foot golf table
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Exactly that, 2 inch balls and (I think) 3.25 inch pockets.

The game is of course similar in many ways to US 8-Ball (the rules are slightly different), but the strategy is actually kind of like Chinese 8-Ball (a bit) from what I've seen over the last few days, presumably due to the much tighter pockets.

Very briefly you tend to use a lot less side to whizz the ball around the table and shots down the rail are basically avoided at (almost) all costs.

Believe me it is absolutely nothing like playing on a US bar box, its what Mick Hill plays on and he just got to the final of the Chinese 8-Ball WC...I'm guessing people who (only) play on US bar boxes would struggle to do that :-)
 
vjmehra said:
Exactly that, 2 inch balls and (I think) 3.25 inch pockets.

The game is of course similar in many ways to US 8-Ball (the rules are slightly different), but the strategy is actually kind of like Chinese 8-Ball (a bit) from what I've seen over the last few days, presumably due to the much tighter pockets.

Very briefly you tend to use a lot less side to whizz the ball around the table and shots down the rail are basically avoided at (almost) all costs.

Believe me it is absolutely nothing like playing on a US bar box, its what Mick Hill plays on and he just got to the final of the Chinese 8-Ball WC...I'm guessing people who (only) play on US bar boxes would struggle to do that :-)
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Meh. That game (UK 8 ball) is the most overrated of all time! The cloth on the table is like shag carpet and the cueball is tiny, which severely limits what can be done. It's easy to draw the ball, but good follow is trickier. It is also trickier to break up clusters. Balls on the rails are difficult to pocket as well. The game is mostly about blocking pockets, playing safe etc, desperately trying to get a second visit. Being skilled is realizing what cannot be done, rather than making things happen.

Even if the pockets are small, most shots that are available (and not on the rail) are quite simple, because of the shorter distance. It cannot even compare to a snooker match table, not by a long shot (litterally).
 
Banks said:
So, who's doing anything about it?
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I'm not so sure anything can be done about it because it all has to do with the mentality of the sport as a whole, from the amateurs to the professionals.

Pool really is the only American sport where the amateurs settle for being amateurs.

When I look at American professional soccer, there are minor leagues, and even a professional indoor league where the field is smaller, goals are plentiful, game is faster. But ask any of the players and they would much rather be playing in the majors MLS.

The same goes for baseball minor leagues to golf. Every player at one time wishes they could play like the pros, and many give it their best shot.

Except pool.

Pool amateurs can be just fine getting to Vegas on seven foot tables, and have no desire to ever get on a nine foot table. How can I say such a blanket statement? Well the numbers don't lie. Big table pool halls are disappearing and APA has millions competing.

But when I see the ads for Vegas tournaments with a sea of diamond bar boxes. Or the SBE with its endless tourney room of bar boxes, I have to shake my head. It's not Alan Hopkins fault nor diamond for making the tables, they are just recognizing the demand. And that is a direct result of the culture of American pool-no desire to play with the best.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
Meh. That game (UK 8 ball) is the most overrated of all time! The cloth on the table is like shag carpet and the cueball is tiny, which severely limits what can be done. It's easy to draw the ball, but good follow is trickier. It is also trickier to break up clusters. Balls on the rails are difficult to pocket as well. The game is mostly about blocking pockets, playing safe etc, desperately trying to get a second visit. Being skilled is realizing what cannot be done, rather than making things happen.

Even if the pockets are small, most shots that are available (and not on the rail) are quite simple, because of the shorter distance. It cannot even compare to a snooker match table, not by a long shot (litterally).
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The small cue ball is annoying and it is nowhere near a snooker table, totally valid points.

However my point was simply that it is tougher than a US bar box and Blackball rules encourage attacking play, unlike the older World Rules, which it sounds like you may have come across before!
 
I don't much like barboxes but they got me back into pool and are all over....I especially hate any with the larger/heavier cueball. The less I play on them, the more the cueball bothers me.
 
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Cardigan Kid said:
I'm not so sure anything can be done about it because it all has to do with the mentality of the sport as a whole, from the amateurs to the professionals.

Pool really is the only American sport where the amateurs settle for being amateurs.

When I look at American professional soccer, there are minor leagues, and even a professional indoor league where the field is smaller, goals are plentiful, game is faster. But ask any of the players and they would much rather be playing in the majors MLS.

The same goes for baseball minor leagues to golf. Every player at one time wishes they could play like the pros, and many give it their best shot.

Except pool.

Pool amateurs can be just fine getting to Vegas on seven foot tables, and have no desire to ever get on a nine foot table. How can I say such a blanket statement? Well the numbers don't lie. Big table pool halls are disappearing and APA has millions competing.

But when I see the ads for Vegas tournaments with a sea of diamond bar boxes. Or the SBE with its endless tourney room of bar boxes, I have to shake my head. It's not Alan Hopkins fault not diamond for making the tables, they are just recognizing the demand. And that is a direct result of the culture of American pool-no desire to play with the best.
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There are tons of things that don't pay, which leads to people settling for being an amateur. Apa has nothing to do with the failure of halls, if anything it has helped them.

Pool money is chopped up by a million businesses and organizations. There's plenty of money in it, just not much left after all of the hands in the pie. You think Budweiser is going to go around to a hundred bars and ask individually to advertise? Not in a million years.

As for the big table thing..

Our regional is about over. 80 diamond boxes. I think all of the singles events had something like 1200 entries total. The races have already shortened due to time constraints. Swap out for 9s and that event just can't happen in a week. That has zero to do with what players want.

This topic comes up all the time. Still have a hard time finding more than one out of ten or twenty players with that opinion who can play worth a damn.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I'm not so sure anything can be done about it because it all has to do with the mentality of the sport as a whole, from the amateurs to the professionals.

Pool really is the only American sport where the amateurs settle for being amateurs.

When I look at American professional soccer, there are minor leagues, and even a professional indoor league where the field is smaller, goals are plentiful, game is faster. But ask any of the players and they would much rather be playing in the majors MLS.

The same goes for baseball minor leagues to golf. Every player at one time wishes they could play like the pros, and many give it their best shot.

Except pool.

Pool amateurs can be just fine getting to Vegas on seven foot tables, and have no desire to ever get on a nine foot table. How can I say such a blanket statement? Well the numbers don't lie. Big table pool halls are disappearing and APA has millions competing.

But when I see the ads for Vegas tournaments with a sea of diamond bar boxes. Or the SBE with its endless tourney room of bar boxes, I have to shake my head. It's not Alan Hopkins fault nor diamond for making the tables, they are just recognizing the demand. And that is a direct result of the culture of American pool-no desire to play with the best.
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Agree, many league players do not seem to be trying to improve.

I will admit that bar tables do have their place. I am just saddened that they are the only game going these days. I can only play so much bar box 8 ball. Part of what makes pool compelling are the many disciplines, one pocket, banks, the rotation based games, and of course 14.1. It just stinks for me because I really no longer am driven or exited by the small tables. I play for they enjoyment of the game alone, and to that end bar boxes do not cut the muster. Yeah, there is money to be won on them, but that is not my motivation for playing.

Ah well, it's all just spilt milk anyways...
 
pwd72s said:
Cindy & I drive 90 miles long round trip in order to play on 9' tables. I don't care much for bar boxes or the places you find 'em in...especially in our small town, where the bars are dives full of rough characters.

But hey, have you ever considered tennis? This young lady looks like she could use some lessons...(yeah, a bit off topic, but worth the view. :wink:)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3PYLnSrP3eE
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Obviously, this is the best post in the thread.
 
macguy said:
They have snooker type pockets very small from what I remember. I played on tables in Italy where the ball bearly fit in the pocket it was like a 7 foot golf table
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Uhh....If I wanna play Snooker, I'll play it on a 5 x 10 or a s 6 x 12. Not interested:(
 
There are bangers on 9ft tables just like 7ft. When they go from 9ft to 7ft. They are still bangers. Just because you play on a bigger table doesn't mean your a better player. There are lot of mainly 7ft table players that could hold their own on big tables. If your good, your good. If your not, your not. I suck on both.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
jburkm002 said:
There are bangers on 9ft tables just like 7ft. When they go from 9ft to 7ft. They are still bangers. Just because you play on a bigger table doesn't mean your a better player. There are lot of mainly 7ft table players that could hold their own on big tables. If your good, your good. If your not, your not. I suck on both.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Just to clarify, I am not making an assessment of player's skill levels. I am merely saying that nine foot pool offers the better experience and yes, challenge. Hell bar boxes are not evil, I own one. But I play on my 9' diamond almost exclusively. And why not, I get that much more enjoyment out of it.
 
OK, you guys baited me into it. Bar box pool, while an art in its own right, does not require the purity of stroke. It does encourage a restrained cuing action, when compared to the big track. I like letting my stroke out and the big table demands that much more than its junior cousin. Sorry ma'am, just the facts.
 
King T said:
You Bar Box haters might wont to remember that the top tournament in the country is played on big pocket Valley Bar Boxes.

White Diamonds has 2 tournament a year both with $100,000 Calcutta's!!! So you guys might not like the Bar Box, but if you can get your game up you can make some real Money on these little tables.
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Top, huh?

I think danny bells event is the best.
 
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