Best 14.1 ball in hand break shot?

T

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm planning on competing in a 14.1 tournament where the final eight contestants are determined by a cummulative total of balls pocketed via ball-in-hand break shots for five attempts.

For this format, what (positional) break shot would you recommend as a ball-in-hand starting point...e.g. the typical OB next to the rack on either side or a break shot from behind the rack?

Secondly, is it permissible to set up a (corner pocket) dead ball as the break shot. I heard it was if the OB was not touching the wing ball of the rack.

I know there is a 14.1 forum, but I was hoping for more exposure from the larger body of experienced players who may have done this before.

Thanks for the feedback in advance.
 
TeeA said:
I'm planning on competing in a 14.1 tournament where the final eight contestants are determined by a cummulative total of balls pocketed via ball-in-hand break shots for five attempts.

For this format, what (positional) break shot would you recommend as a ball-in-hand starting point...e.g. the typical OB next to the rack on either side or a break shot from behind the rack?

Secondly, is it permissible to set up a (corner pocket) dead ball as the break shot. I heard it was if the OB was not touching the wing ball of the rack.

I know there is a 14.1 forum, but I was hoping for more exposure from the larger body of experienced players who may have done this before.

Thanks for the feedback in advance.
Click to expand...

Most 14.1 events with this format do not allow you to setup a dead-ball. You must keep the OB a width or two from the rack (I forget the exact distance).

Honestly, the best ball in hand break shot is prob the side pocket. Place the OB a width from the center line and setup a 45 degree angle and smash into the two top balls. The result looks like an 8ball break.

Learned that one from Schmidty. I don't practice it because it works so well and you are likely to get used to the results (which are uncommon, imo).

If you break hard from the side, you can spread the balls and have them re-group in the center where they started--- which sucks.
 
I agree with Dave. When I am practicing, I use what most would consider the standard 14.1 break. It helps me to practice navigating around balls.

If I were to set up in a competition I would use the side pocket break to start. It pops the balls wide open and lets you get in a rhythm through the first rack. I remember watching an accu-stats where Diliberto was talking about how alot of this generations players like to use that break.

-Brandon
 
TeeA said:
I'm planning on competing in a 14.1 tournament where the final eight contestants are determined by a cummulative total of balls pocketed via ball-in-hand break shots for five attempts.

For this format, what (positional) break shot would you recommend as a ball-in-hand starting point...e.g. the typical OB next to the rack on either side or a break shot from behind the rack?

Secondly, is it permissible to set up a (corner pocket) dead ball as the break shot. I heard it was if the OB was not touching the wing ball of the rack.

I know there is a 14.1 forum, but I was hoping for more exposure from the larger body of experienced players who may have done this before.

Thanks for the feedback in advance.
Click to expand...

Bad choice choosing this forum instead of the 14.1 forum.
 
Regarding the appropriate place to begin - I would say 99.9% of us only have this scenario when practicing and it's considered prudent to set-up a break-shot you expect (hope) to see on a frequent basis. I cannot think of a single instance where a naturally occuring dead-ball will happen and even if there were, no decent player in their right mind would actually play for it.

As for an appropriate starting point, I would recommend something simple and effective. Since this is a competition, you'll want something nice and easy. Below are a few suggestions:

CueTable Help



CueTable Help



EDIT: This diagram didn't come out so great. The goal is to give yourself a big angle but one that's easy to pocket.
 
Marop said:
Bad choice choosing this forum instead of the 14.1 forum.
Click to expand...

These guys wouldn't know how to find a 14.1 break shot with a road map.
:cool:

They'd need an Indian guide.

Just kidding.

Most of the guys down at Derby had the object ball between the side pockets in the center of the table and the cue ball about a ball's width or a little more away. The tanget line should go to the top two balls and a lot of high was used.
 
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My favorite break shot is a minor cut into the bottom corner hit one of the top two balls, and draw one foot back to center. Make sure not to draw very far...and make sure you hit the first ball good, and square. If you do these two things then only good things can happen.
 
Most of the guys down at Derby had the object ball between the side pockets in the center of the table and the cue ball about a ball's width or a little more away. The tanget line should go to the top two balls and a lot of high was used.[/QUOTE]

This was Ralph Greenleafs favorite break shot. Nuff said.
 
what spider said.

I REALLY don't like jude's shots which is weird because I agree with almost all of his posts in the how-would-you-play-this category.

I guess I dislike them because it's a weird and unfamiliar shooting position/angle that I rarely have to deal with. It's the kind of shot I end up with when I've screwed the pooch and overrun my position. I "should" make it, but ...I dunno, it looks ugly to me on paper, which means it probably looks even uglier at the table. You're hitting at high speed and you're not facing the entire corner pocket, you're basically shooting into 2/3rds of a pocket right off the bat.

John schmidt starts out his 250+ ball run with the side pocket break, commenting on how he favors it when he can set up a break.

I can think of a few reasons it's better:
- you are facing the whole pocket
- it's a wider pocket than the corners
- this sort of side pocket shot is more common than a backwards cut from a few inches away (ok, that's debatable, maybe that's just how it's worked out for me)
- you are going into the top two balls of the stack, just like an 8 ball break.

The only disadvantage I see is if you hit the shot badly, you go off the side of the rack and scratch. Jude's shots look impossible to scratch from.
 
CreeDo said:
what spider said.

I REALLY don't like jude's shots which is weird because I agree with almost all of his posts in the how-would-you-play-this category.

I guess I dislike them because it's a weird and unfamiliar shooting position/angle that I rarely have to deal with. It's the kind of shot I end up with when I've screwed the pooch and overrun my position. I "should" make it, but ...I dunno, it looks ugly to me on paper, which means it probably looks even uglier at the table. You're hitting at high speed and you're not facing the entire corner pocket, you're basically shooting into 2/3rds of a pocket right off the bat.

John schmidt starts out his 250+ ball run with the side pocket break, commenting on how he favors it when he can set up a break.

I can think of a few reasons it's better:
- you are facing the whole pocket
- it's a wider pocket than the corners
- this sort of side pocket shot is more common than a backwards cut from a few inches away (ok, that's debatable, maybe that's just how it's worked out for me)
- you are going into the top two balls of the stack, just like an 8 ball break.

The only disadvantage I see is if you hit the shot badly, you go off the side of the rack and scratch. Jude's shots look impossible to scratch from.
Click to expand...

Well, this is a BIH situation meant to be tinkered with until comfortable. I actually really like shooting these angles, can't say why. The reason I posted them (which is where you were leading to), assuming you pocket the ball, nothing bad should happen. You're going to get a very nice spread and you really shouldn't scratch.

John Schmidt's preference for playing side-pocket break shots is understandable. There are certain angles that are VERY predictable. Assuming you can avoid the pitfalls, you're allowed to juice it up and really whack at them.

It's meant to be a silly starting point where you get a big spread and run balls. Even in practice, scratching is annoying so you set-up something that you know is going to work all the time.


I will say this, if I have this pattern, I might actually start to drool a little. I can't see how I can miss the 2 and not smash the rack to bits and pieces.

CueTable Help

 
measureman said:
Most of the guys down at Derby had the object ball between the side pockets in the center of the table and the cue ball about a ball's width or a little more away. The tanget line should go to the top two balls and a lot of high was used.
Click to expand...

This was Ralph Greenleafs favorite break shot. Nuff said.[/QUOTE]


Well, I don't know what Nuff did or didn't say... but Mosconi's favorite, and the one he used to warm up before his exhibitions (at least the ones I saw) was the traditional back cut, from the left side of the stack. His was maybe a little steeper than us mere mortals would prefer.

I'm sure the amateurs amongst us would prefer the comfort of the side pocket break :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
Well, this is a BIH situation meant to be tinkered with until comfortable. I actually really like shooting these angles, can't say why. The reason I posted them (which is where you were leading to), assuming you pocket the ball, nothing bad should happen. You're going to get a very nice spread and you really shouldn't scratch.

John Schmidt's preference for playing side-pocket break shots is understandable. There are certain angles that are VERY predictable. Assuming you can avoid the pitfalls, you're allowed to juice it up and really whack at them.

It's meant to be a silly starting point where you get a big spread and run balls. Even in practice, scratching is annoying so you set-up something that you know is going to work all the time.


I will say this, if I have this pattern, I might actually start to drool a little. I can't see how I can miss the 2 and not smash the rack to bits and pieces.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...


I like to use this pattern during a run too. But, there is a downside on tough equipment, because you're going into more of the pocket facing. I've had this shot spit out more than once, even if hit perfectly.

Lou Figueroa
 
I like the side pocket break myself, but if i am practicing i stick to more traditional break shots so i get to practice them as well.


Which tourney are you refering too ? The one in Albany, or are you planning on joining us at the expo ?

Steve
 
Listen to Jude.....it is Sage advise!!


I have been practicing for the EXPO 14.1 event, trying to run some balls.....the breakers aren't my problem....concenttration IS! ;)

I'm averaging about 250 for 5 tries.......not world class, but a good starting point.


G.
 
Gerry said:
Listen to Jude.....it is Sage advise!!


I have been practicing for the EXPO 14.1 event, trying to run some balls.....the breakers aren't my problem....concenttration IS! ;)

I'm averaging about 250 for 5 tries.......not world class, but a good starting point.


G.
Click to expand...

Methinks 250 is probably getting you into the 8 finalists! Very nice.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I think Gerry meant he's averaging 50 / run, which is still macka-dacka, imo.
Click to expand...

Yep, I understand. I think 50 per run 5 times in a row is very good. I'd be surprised if that didn't get you right into the mix at Valley Forge.

Andy
 
Gerry said:
Listen to Jude.....it is Sage advise!!


I have been practicing for the EXPO 14.1 event, trying to run some balls.....the breakers aren't my problem....concenttration IS! ;)

I'm averaging about 250 for 5 tries.......not world class, but a good starting point.


G.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. What is 250 for 5 tries? Does this mean you make 250 in five innings or you have a 250 point run within five tries?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Most 14.1 events with this format do not allow you to setup a dead-ball. You must keep the OB a width or two from the rack (I forget the exact distance).

Honestly, the best ball in hand break shot is prob the side pocket. Place the OB a width from the center line and setup a 45 degree angle and smash into the two top balls. The result looks like an 8ball break.

Learned that one from Schmidty. I don't practice it because it works so well and you are likely to get used to the results (which are uncommon, imo).

If you break hard from the side, you can spread the balls and have them re-group in the center where they started--- which sucks.
Click to expand...

... and I believe that John Schmidt learned that side pocket break shot from Leil "JR" Gay - who is a great player from Cleveland, Ohio.

I'll try to confirm that info with John - but I believe that is what I heard him tell Pat Fleming on an Accu-stats tape ... BTW... to the original poster - if you post this in the 14.1 forum, you will get answers from players such as John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, Bobby Chamberlain, Ray Martin, Danny Barouty, Steve Lipsky, and Dave "Don't Call Me Mike" Segal.
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm confused. What is 250 for 5 tries? Does this mean you make 250 in five innings or you have a 250 point run within five tries?
Click to expand...

Take break ball and cue ball in hand. Put them wherever you want them. Rack the other 14 balls. Now play an inning of 14.1 until you miss (or foul). Do this five times in a row. Add up the total number of balls you pocketed in the five attempts.
 
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