best all around player ever

It's not surprising to see most on here go with the consensus contemporary pick... Efren. But the original question asked for the best all around player ever. That said, you would have to think how Efren would have matched up against the likes of a Harold Worst, Don Willis, or Luther Lassiter.

And Jay, how could you omit Lassiter? :confused: You didn't even give him an honorable mention.
 
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iralee said:
I assume all-around includes all cue games, not just pool. I vote for Torbjorn Blomdahl. I think a lot of guys may underestimate how well he plays a whole lot of cue games. He's arguably the best 3-cushion player with countless world titles, he can match up against any pro in 8-ball, 9-ball or 10-ball, and he plays pretty sporty snooker. Super competitor.

-Ira
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I think the OP just meant pool.....but if he meant all cue games then yeah, I'd have to agree with you on Blomdahl. I can't think of anyone that could come close to challenging him in an all-around cue sport contest.
 
Winston846 said:
It's not surprising to see most on here go with the consensus contemporary pick... Efren. But the original question asked for the best all around player ever. That said, you would have to think how Efren would have matched up against the likes of a Harold Worst, Don Willis, or Luther Lassiter.

And Jay, how could you omit Lassiter? :confused: You didn't even give him an honorable mention.
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My error, thanks! I would put him in my second ten, because his One Pocket game was suspect and many players banked better than him. Cutting the balls was another matter entirely. No one ever sliced balls in better than Luther! If you limited the games to 9-Ball and Straight Pool, Lassiter may have been the best of all time. I don't know why he never learned to play high speed One Pocket. It was the second most popular gambling game, even during his era. Today even a player with the skills of Johnny Archer may refuse to play One Pocket. Some players just don't like the game. My suspicion is there is too much thinking and creativity that goes into it. It can be baffling, even for a good player.
 
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Mr441 said:
I think the OP just meant pool.....but if he meant all cue games then yeah, I'd have to agree with you on Blomdahl. I can't think of anyone that could come close to challenging him in an all-around cue sport contest.
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I give you Efren.

But not literally...Blomdahl is the fave in only 3c vs. Reyes.
 
best all around player

Winston846 said:
It's not surprising to see most on here go with the consensus contemporary pick... Efren. But the original question asked for the best all around player ever. That said, you would have to think how Efren would have matched up against the likes of a Harold Worst, Don Willis, or Luther Lassiter.

And Jay, how could you omit Lassiter? :confused: You didn't even give him an honorable mention.
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There is a video of Lassiter and Boston Shorty playing the final of a One Pocket World Championship, poor play compared to todays standards.
 
jay helfert said:
My error, thanks! I would put him in my second ten, because his One Pocket game was suspect and many players banked better than him. Cutting the balls was another matter entirely. No one ever sliced balls in better than Luther! If you limited the games to 9-Ball and Straight Pool, Lassiter may have been the best of all time. I don't know why he never learned to play high speed One Pocket. It was the second most popular gambling game, even during his era. Today even a player with the skills of Johnny Archer may refuse to play One Pocket. Some players just don't like the game. My suspicion is there is too much thinking and creativity that goes into it. It can be baffling, even for a good player.
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very very true Jay......all you have to do is look at Eddie Robins one pocket books....something like that could never be done in 9 ball....there just are not as many options and situations.

Look at Artie.....everyone says he was far from a good straight shooter but yet by using his mind and imagination to the utmost degree he had one of the highest if not the highest batting averages against the best players in the world in One hole.

Its the chess of pool, and as well all know some rather stick to checkers.

-Grey Ghost-
 
book collector said:
There is a video of Lassiter and Boston Shorty playing the final of a One Pocket World Championship, poor play compared to todays standards.
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You hit the nail on the head... TODAY'S STANDARDS. It was a different game then (80/20 napped cloth, no hi-tech cues or low deflection shafts, etc.). Think of how good Jack Nicklaus would be if he were 30 years old today and playing with today's equipment. Tiger who? I think the same applies here.

And as Jay said, 1P wasn't Lassiter's best game, but he certainly didn't stink at it.
 
Hmm.......

Well, I cannot disagree with Efren as the very best all-around. However, Bugs Rucker, during his playing years was THE best one-pocket player, and THE best bank-pool player, and he shot very straight as well, so I assume he could really play some 9-ball too.
And what about Gary Spaeth? World-Class at EVERY game.
With all that said, still have to pick Efren.

Brandon Lee Spitler.
 
RichGambler said:
Can we agree that snooker is the hardest of the cue games?
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I'm gonna cop a load of flak for this, but just my 2 cents.

I don't know if its the hardest cue sport there is, as I've not played every cuesport known to man. But I've played a lot of snooker (12ft tables) and a lot of pool (all table sizes) and one thing I can say for sure is that snooker is MUCH harder than 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball, straight, and any other pool variant I've played. Even on same-sized tables, snooker is a lot harder. I'm not saying pool is easy, just snooker is a lot harder.

I'm generally considered a fairly solid casual pool player. But at snooker a break of 20+ counts as a very good break for me. I've seen lots of talented pool players totally at sea when faced with a 12ft snooker table. I've never seen a good snooker player who wasn't also at least a respectable pool player, though.

There are a number of top snooker players who can also make the best pool players sweat a bit. But was there ever a top pool player who'd worry the best snooker players?
 
Worst won the world 3c title,he beat everyone playing 9 ball and straight poolhe got invited to England to play in a national snooker championship and won it,a game hed never played and was almost dead from brain cancer at the time.Wimmpy steered him into a bad one pocket game in JC i think he was givin eddie 8 to 6 and down 7 or 8 games.He figured out they trapped him so he tripples the bet runs a couple 8 and outs and quits.If it had been televised back the he would have been the majician the guy made everything he shot at.And he never slow rolled a 9 ball they hit the back of the pocket with a crack!! Efren is no doubt the greatest modern player but Worst wouldve beat him at everything except maybe one pocket.
 
Ok here's my list for consideration.
Irving Crane
Nick Varner
Eddie Taylor
Johnny Irish
Luther Lassiter
Harold Worst
Alfredo DeOro
 
brandonspitler said:
Well, I cannot disagree with Efren as the very best all-around. However, Bugs Rucker, during his playing years was THE best one-pocket player, and THE best bank-pool player, and he shot very straight as well, so I assume he could really play some 9-ball too.
And what about Gary Spaeth? World-Class at EVERY game.
With all that said, still have to pick Efren.

Brandon Lee Spitler.
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Bugs was a great banker and onepocket player.I used to watch him as a teenager and was always in awe.His 9 ball game wasnt world class and I dont think I ever saw him play staight pool. But him,Gary, and youngblood are deff the top 3 bankers.
 
If we are asked to consider Snooker as the most difficult game then I think we should also consider 3 cushion and Pyramid
 
dr9ball said:
If we are asked to consider Snooker as the most difficult game then I think we should also consider 3 cushion and Pyramid
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We have a russian pyramid table where i play (ultimate-billiards.com) Im told theres only 3 in the country and I tell ya it make snooker seem like a bar box.I dont like the game but its IMO the hardest pocket game out there.
 
This is a never ending debate. You probably need to be in your 50s to really have seen the legends play close to their top speed. All I know is Efren so Efren wins. If someone in their late 50s or higher says different it's impossible to argue that for me.

It's like me trying to figure out if Jerry West was better than John Stockton, can't do it.
 
Let's invite the greatest players to comment on this

I have to say that I have no standing to even comment about who is the greatest all around. But as a reader, I can express what many who read this would like to find on this thread: Wouldn't it be appropriate to have the champions and contemporaries of champions decide WHO they believe was greatest and WHY? It would be more interesting commentary to the rest of us...
 
brandonspitler said:
Kinda surprising that no one has mentioned Eddie Taylor as well.
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Taylor and Bugs were both world class at One Pocket and Banks. No question about that. In fact if you only consider those two games, they are probably the two best ever. Taylor's Straight Pool game was only average, but he did play jam-up 9-Ball as well. He probably belongs on my top ten list ahead of a few others. Another foul on me! As for Bugs, I'm sure he could play 9-Ball, but I never saw him play a game, so it is hard for me to rate his speed. I have a feeling he never played Straight Pool for money (or in a tournament) in his life. Freddie would know better than me.

P.S. Dallas West is another player who should be on my Honorable Mention list. He played all games at world class speed, except One Pocket (yes he was another very good player who didn't like the game). He also played high speed Three Cushions, right there with Shorty. By the way, I omitted Boston Shorty too, one more GREAT player I shouldn't have overlooked. His Straight Pool game also was only average, but he was right there with the best Three Cushion players in the USA.
 
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