Best in the world. Without a doubt.

nathandumoulin said:
If anyone ever doubted that he's the best in the world right now, this should easily erase any remaining doubt:

#53: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_MA3RlxjxU

#52: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g-KZzGdr7k

DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HsFF23RiJU
Click to expand...

I have never been attracted to "trick shots" where you set up balls a certain way that insures that you can pocket the balls easily. What he does is far greater than just setting up shots. He has lots of shooting talent and is the best trick shot artist I have ever seen. I don't know how many takes these shots took but it really doesn't matter. He's got the right stuff. The music add some nice drama to his spectacular shooting.

JoeyA
 
Da Bank said:
i've never seen anything that compares to this guy in any trick shot competitions. You said something about certain shots not being legal in trick shot competitions? Can you elaborate on that? The very notion of a shot being illegal in a trick shot competition is mind boggling to me.. just goes against the concept of trick shots. You should be able to do ANYTHING on that pool table that involves a cue and balls in a trick shot competition.. if your opponent can't do it or it is impressive enough to the judges you win.
Click to expand...

To my understanding (and I could be wrong), the tournaments follow several different formats. The most common has 8 different disciplines, such as draw, follow, etc.

The players perform a few shots for each section and receive points for each successfully completely shot. Each failed attempt means that the shot is worth less points when finally completed (usually limited to 3 attempts). Player with the most points at the end of each round move on to the next dicipline.

The catch however, is that the shots are selected from a pre established shots list. The list contains about 56 shots, 47 of of which were invented in 1827. Based on my math, that means you only get to choose between 7 possible shots per discipline.

This doesn't exactly leave much room for creativity. You can't invent your own shots, or try the crazy stuff that Florian does. You have to stick to the book....which as I mentioned is almost 200 years old.

Clearly some people like this approach. Florian however does not. That's not to say that he doesn't respect it...it's simply not what he wants to do.

(if I got any of this wrong, feel free to correct me)

ESPN Trickshot Magic however, has a much more creative format. It's the only trickshot competition that I've heard Florian get excited over, as he is allowed to pick his own shots. From what I hear, there is one spot still open for this years field, and they are currently considering Florian as an option.
 
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Every time I click one, I think "ok, I've seen his new ideas and new takes on old ones. Now I'm just gonna see some expanded variations of what he's known for, I can't possibly see something really new" ...I'm always wrong lol. Fresh stuff just keeps popping into this kid's head somehow. I'm always saying something out loud every few seconds while watching these.
 
Sick sick sick

The kid is just amazing...... he is just one uber talented phenom.

To clear things up, he literally picked up a cue for the first time 3.5 years ago. He only spends minimal hours a week practicing due to the fact that he is currently in college studying optometry. He is however always thinking about the game, he carries with him a journal which is many pages thick of and he jots down different ideas for shots on a daily basis (he invented 8-10 on his plane ride from france to philadelphia last month)

He is a very nice young man and I personally wish him all the sucess in the world and am trying to help him gain exposure as much as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that he will be a household name in the next few years, not only with the die hard billiard fans but with the "outside world" as well.

Everytime I think he has reached his peak he puts out a new you tube video and completely blows me away again.

I spent over 30 hours at the SBE in the Runout Media booth standing beside a TV playing the highlights from his DVD and I couldn't take my eyes off of the screen the whole time, even shots I have now seen literally 500 times , it was to the point where I didn't have to look at the screen I could tell what was happening by the sound of the music......just crazy stuff........can't wait to see what he does next.
 
nathandumoulin said:
He's actually only been playing for 3 years (not 4). Oddly enough, Florian only plays an average of 5 or 6 hours per week. He spends the majority of his time at school.



Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said they were boring. Nor did I or Florian ever suggest that he had no respect for other trickshot artists. In contrary, he absolutely idolizes Samih and Mike.
Click to expand...

"They're far too slow and contain mostly setup shots....which is what Florian is trying to stay away from. "

Sorry, I took this statement and interpreted it as boring (setup shots). I am not against you man but I want to keep the respect alive for the other people in this segment of the sport as well.

You say Florian is trying to stay away from setup shots but that's what a lot of the shots on the video are. Granted he takes those shots to a new level with his timing and double/triple hits and using multiple cues, introducing a jump shot etc... but the underlying shot is a setup shot.

But even at that, a lot of the shots Florian is doing on the video are shots that were invented by the current group of trick shot artists. The speed jumping, weaving in and out of balls, jump masse shots, jumping into things, weaving around glasses.

Don't get me wrong I am in AWE of both Florian's skills and his demeanor.

As to the time he's put in well only he knows but judging by the fact that he goes through three or four recoverings per year and the high level of creativity I'd say he's spent his time well. Again, it's totally great that he had a good foundation of shots to build on. Sorry for being blunt but some of these guys are my friends for the past 20 years and I find it a bit out of line when their contributions are dismissed or overshadowed, knowing that they have worked so hard to bring some recognition to the art of artistic pool, artistic billiards, and trick shots.

I also don't really understand the idea that Florian is "too good" for the competition.

I was a competitive springboard diver. And later a paid professional high diver.

We used to screw around in training playing a diving form of follow the leader where everyone had to do the same dive. My teammates would always get me out by doing really simple stuff while I was always trying to get them out by doing the big tricks. The lesson for me was what good are the big tricks if you can't do the small ones. Not to say that what they do in the trick shot shows are all small tricks. They have a program though and all the people who enter must be able to do the shots in the program and THEN they get to freestyle with their own big tricks and prop shots.

So pardon me Nate and I hate to disagree with you because I think your whole setup is pretty freaking cool, I really think that Florian is not the best until he can beat the best in competition.

I am kinda disappointed to hear that he didn't compete and even more so by the reason you gave. I hope the attitude changes soon.

I actually thought he did compete which is why I was looking forward to the answer to Scott's question.

Anyway, keep rocking it. You and he are definitely shaking things up and I predict that some of those other artists will definitely be out there trying to master the new shots variations Florian has brought to us.

To everyone else - buy the video, I guarantee you that you will be hitting the reverse button a lot with a "how the hell did he do that?" thought in your mind.
 
JB Cases,

In all honesty, I actually do find those competitions boring, but that's not to say that Florian feels the same way. I'm speaking for myself here, not for him.

The ESPN Trickshot Magic format however, is pretty awesome. I support this show in particular because it's one of the only formats where players can actually bring creativity to the table. In most Artistic Pool competitions, this is not the case. After all, 'Art' is the founding word in 'Artistic'....and anything lacking creativity cannot be considered art. Given that, how can those other formats be considered 'Artistic Pool'?

As for Florian's shots being mostly setup shots....clearly your definition of 'setup shot' is drastically different than mine. A setup is when balls are frozen together in such a way so that they are automatically directed towards the pockets when struck in the right place. About 5% of Florian's shots use this strategy, and most of the shots that do utilize a primitive form of this where only 2 balls are frozen together at once. What Florian does is 'Stroke Shots'. He puts spin on the balls, and makes then do wild and crazy things.

JB Cases said:
I also don't really understand the idea that Florian is "too good" for the competition.
Click to expand...

Who said Florian is "too good for competition"? I don't think anyone ever implied that. He simply is not interested in practicing the same 40 shots for countless hours. There is no creativity in that, and creativity is what Florian loves the most.

As for who is the best, I agree, it's subjective. All I can say is that Samih was never successful in winning competitions, and yet, many people strongly feel he's on of the top three best artistic pool players of all time. Another example is Fedor in MMA. He doesn't fight in the UFC, and yet everyone who knows anything about MMA knows that Fedor is the best in the World. Sometimes someone's skill level is so obviously above everyone else's that it doesn't require being proven. I think a lot of people feel this way about Florian, and the endless comments on his Youtube account and Facebook profile confirm it. You are right though, chances are it will likely never be proven. But who says it needs to be?

JB Cases said:
I am kinda disappointed to hear that he didn't compete and even more so by the reason you gave. I hope the attitude changes soon.
Click to expand...

His attitude? Florian is passionate and enjoys what he does. He likes competing in certain formats (and did against Samih in Korea), and yet not in others. Why should he have to compete in a tournament if he isn't interested? If anything, I think his attitude is near perfect. He has fun, does what he wants to do, and enjoys life.

All disagreement aside, thank you for your support. Even if we don't agree, you still show respect and appreciation for his efforts. You're also quite respectable in how you present your side of the discussion we're having, and I appreciate that as well. :thumbup:
 
This guy is amazing, right up there with the best I've ever seen - Sayginer, Massey and Kimoura. They all have different skills and different shots they excel in. Mike Massey still has the most powerful stroke ever! Samih makes shots on a billiard table that are not to be believed and Kimoura shoots some trick shots that defy explanation. But I would put Venom right up there in this elite class of cue artists.

I'm sure it took him more than one take (maybe several) to execute some of these shots successfully. That is the beauty of edited DVD's, you never see the misses. I particularly enjoy the shots where he hits the cue ball on the fly. Maybe the best ever at these type shots. His masse skills are right up there with Massey and Sayginer as well. I'd rather watch stuff like this than any trick shot competition on TV. The "set-up" shots pale in comparison.

If you've never seen Mike Massey do his "finger" pool, you've missed something equally remarkable. Same for Sayginer on a billiard table. These two remain my all time favorites.
 
jay helfert said:
This guy is amazing, right up there with the best I've ever seen - Sayginer, Massey and Kimoura. They all have different skills and different shots they excel in. Mike Massey still has the most powerful stroke ever! Samih makes shots on a billiard table that are not to be believed and Kimoura shoots some trick shots that defy explanation. But I would put Venom right up there in this elite class of cue artists.

I'm sure it took him more than one take (maybe several) to execute some of these shots successfully. That is the beauty of edited DVD's, you never see the misses. I particularly enjoy the shots where he hits the cue ball on the fly. Maybe the best ever at these type shots. His masse skills are right up there with Massey and Sayginer as well. I'd rather watch stuff like this than any trick shot competition on TV. The "set-up" shots pale in comparison.

If you've never seen Mike Massey do his "finger" pool, you've missed something equally remarkable. Same for Sayginer on a billiard table. These two remain my all time favorites.
Click to expand...

Jay,
Couldn't agree more. And to add to it, what makes both of those gentlemen so enjoyable to watch is their level of showmanship. They really know how to grasp an audience and keep them involved. I regret to say I haven't had the chance to see Florian in person, but if he learns how to work a crowd like Sayginer and Massey, he'll be an amazing ambassador for the sport and a hell of a good time to watch.
 
nathandumoulin said:
JB Cases,

In all honesty, I actually do find those competitions boring, but that's not to say that Florian feels the same way. I'm speaking for myself here, not for him.

The ESPN Trickshot Magic format however, is pretty awesome. I support this show in particular because it's one of the only formats where players can actually bring creativity to the table. In most Artistic Pool competitions, this is not the case. After all, 'Art' is the founding word in 'Artistic'....and anything lacking creativity cannot be considered art. Given that, how can those other formats be considered 'Artistic Pool'?

As for Florian's shots being mostly setup shots....clearly your definition of 'setup shot' is drastically different than mine. A setup is when balls are frozen together in such a way so that they are automatically directed towards the pockets when struck in the right place. About 5% of Florian's shots use this strategy, and most of the shots that do utilize a primitive form of this where only 2 balls are frozen together at once. What Florian does is 'Stroke Shots'. He puts spin on the balls, and makes then do wild and crazy things.



Who said Florian is "too good for competition"? I don't think anyone ever implied that. He simply is not interested in practicing the same 40 shots for countless hours. There is no creativity in that, and creativity is what Florian loves the most.

As for who is the best, I agree, it's subjective. All I can say is that Samih was never successful in winning competitions, and yet, many people strongly feel he's on of the top three best artistic pool players of all time. Another example is Fedor in MMA. He doesn't fight in the UFC, and yet everyone who knows anything about MMA knows that Fedor is the best in the World. Sometimes someone's skill level is so obviously above everyone else's that it doesn't require being proven. I think a lot of people feel this way about Florian, and the endless comments on his Youtube account and Facebook profile confirm it. You are right though, chances are it will likely never be proven. But who says it needs to be?



His attitude? Florian is passionate and enjoys what he does. He likes competing in certain formats (and did against Samih in Korea), and yet not in others. Why should he have to compete in a tournament if he isn't interested? If anything, I think his attitude is near perfect. He has fun, does what he wants to do, and enjoys life.

All disagreement aside, thank you for your support. Even if we don't agree, you still show respect and appreciation for his efforts. You're also quite respectable in how you present your side of the discussion we're having, and I appreciate that as well. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

All great points and after seeing the YouTube vids I am again amazed at the timing and execution.

One thing is for sure when it comes to the freestyle portion of any trick shot contest it will take an athlete to keep up with Florian. This kid runs around the table faster than Bolt does the 100 yard hurdles and jumps more too.

I am sure he brings the house down when he nails these shots in front of a crowd.

So with that I will just shut up now and spend more time being amazed.
 
I'm absolutely jaw-dropped when watching his vids and the best part is I laugh out loud at times too.
 
This guy is amazing. I have nothing but respect for the veterans of the sport, but this guy is on a different level. I cant believe he's only been doing this as long as he has. No disrespect to anyone else, but this guy is the best....period.
 
Hi everybody, I finally registred me on AZ!

First of all, I want to thanks all of you, fans or not fans, both have made what I'm becoming right now...

As you know this is actually a true story, I directly come from the internet and if you check the date of my youtube registration, everything is true.
As for the video 1, when I think about this, I'm like...I was so bad lol

BUT this is part of my history, this actually proves that nothing is wrong.
I learnt all by myself just by watching video. I wasn't even in the French pool federation to learn with an instructor.

Now the story is over, I want to say some things because of course all of what it's said isn't the truth^^
First, don't think I'm a pool player...I'm not!Actually it seems weird to a lot of people but I hardly run a rack of 9 ball, really!

The reason is simple:
While a beginner learn pool by the basics, I learnt masse' and jumps.
While a beginner learn the stance or the grip I was working on my masse' grip and evrything for these kind of shots!

I seriously don't think I'm player but I'm an Artist!
That is the main difference , I don't think like a player but like an artist...

So Nathan is totally right, I get my excitetement from my creativity, for the new shots. If I stop creating, I'll probably stop to get thrilled about pool...

Speaking of this, there is one thing I want you to understand: I don't want and I don't need to be the best!!!! what I want is make fun and create new shots!

Be sure of one thing, I've got lot of respect for people like Andy Segal or Tom Rossman, they were my first inspiration for the videos...Seriously Andy's consistencly sometimes just scared me...it's purely amazing!

On the second hand, there are also some gods of pool for me like Semih of Mike. I was lucky enough to met both of them and I still don't believe it...
Semih has the exact same problem than me: he is considered as the best howewer he don't compete in artistic billiard...I've seen lot of guys with the same skill or even more, but not anyone could bring that amazement on a table...Why? Because he just loves the game more than anyone!

Also I follow one main idea: the very great idea of trick shots can't be resume to a competition...Who can say that picasso was better than Van Gogh?? For me trick shots is a show. Doing the same tricks again and again, it's purely a job. When you do this for new shots I think it's usefull, but with old shots? What's the goal? Nobody want the same, I personnally want something different.

But I don't give up the idea of doing competition, it's one of the way to also become better!Of course as Im living in France it's hard enough for me to be part of competition like that...For example, before November 2009, I didn't even played on a diamond table, and as each table is different your shots need to be played differently!

So my thought about competition is a little different...I actually play some 3 cushion and I play way better than pool. I just made a run of 7 last week for example. In the futur I'll probably enter the artistic billiard french tour as it's easier for me and because the shots are closer to my style. I mean there are lot of masse' and spin shots. Also in France we have some great competitors too, so it will help increase my skill level.

To conclude, be sure of one thing: I don't want to be the best, I want to be the most creative, that's the only tittle I want :)

Once again thanks everyone and plese continue sending me messages on youtube or facebook It's the only way I could continue creating!Without you guys I'm nothing!

Also Sorry for my bad english but I do my best lol

Florian 'Venom' KOHLER
 
Venomtrickshots said:
Hi everybody, I finally registred me on AZ!

First of all, I want to thanks all of you, fans or not fans, both have made what I'm becoming right now...

As you know this is actually a true story, I directly come from the internet and if you check the date of my youtube registration, everything is true.
As for the video 1, when I think about this, I'm like...I was so bad lol

BUT this is part of my history, this actually proves that nothing is wrong.
I learnt all by myself just by watching video. I wasn't even in the French pool federation to learn with an instructor.

Now the story is over, I want to say some things because of course all of what it's said isn't the truth^^
First, don't think I'm a pool player...I'm not!Actually it seems weird to a lot of people but I hardly run a rack of 9 ball, really!

The reason is simple:
While a beginner learn pool by the basics, I learnt masse' and jumps.
While a beginner learn the stance or the grip I was working on my masse' grip and evrything for these kind of shots!

I seriously don't think I'm player but I'm an Artist!
That is the main difference , I don't think like a player but like an artist...

So Nathan is totally right, I get my excitetement from my creativity, for the new shots. If I stop creating, I'll probably stop to get thrilled about pool...

Speaking of this, there is one thing I want you to understand: I don't want and I don't need to be the best!!!! what I want is make fun and create new shots!

Be sure of one thing, I've got lot of respect for people like Andy Segal or Tom Rossman, they were my first inspiration for the videos...Seriously Andy's consistencly sometimes just scared me...it's purely amazing!

On the second hand, there are also some gods of pool for me like Semih of Mike. I was lucky enough to met both of them and I still don't believe it...
Semih has the exact same problem than me: he is considered as the best howewer he don't compete in artistic billiard...I've seen lot of guys with the same skill or even more, but not anyone could bring that amazement on a table...Why? Because he just loves the game more than anyone!

Also I follow one main idea: the very great idea of trick shots can't be resume to a competition...Who can say that picasso was better than Van Gogh?? For me trick shots is a show. Doing the same tricks again and again, it's purely a job. When you do this for new shots I think it's usefull, but with old shots? What's the goal? Nobody want the same, I personnally want something different.

But I don't give up the idea of doing competition, it's one of the way to also become better!Of course as Im living in France it's hard enough for me to be part of competition like that...For example, before November 2009, I didn't even played on a diamond table, and as each table is different your shots need to be played differently!

So my thought about competition is a little different...I actually play some 3 cushion and I play way better than pool. I just made a run of 7 last week for example. In the futur I'll probably enter the artistic billiard french tour as it's easier for me and because the shots are closer to my style. I mean there are lot of masse' and spin shots. Also in France we have some great competitors too, so it will help increase my skill level.

To conclude, be sure of one thing: I don't want to be the best, I want to be the most creative, that's the only tittle I want :)

Once again thanks everyone and plese continue sending me messages on youtube or facebook It's the only way I could continue creating!Without you guys I'm nothing!

Also Sorry for my bad english but I do my best lol

Florian 'Venom' KOHLER
Click to expand...

Florian,
You have made a great first impression on AZ Billiards Main Forum.

I will follow you on FaceBook and maybe even youtube. I like your style and perspective on pool and billiards in general. Your English is just fine and we will all be keeping an eye on you.

Best Regards,
JoeyA
 
Welcome!

Every pool player who has seen your videos instantly realizes its at a whole new level of creativity and skill. Its scary to think of you continuing to improve...you've already made dozens of shots no one even thought of, much less successfully executed.
 
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