Best Strongest and Fastest Setting Tip Glue
- Thread starter naji
- Start date
naji:
You might want to post this in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22
Personally, I don't mind a long set time for glue. I personally like the polyurethane glues (e.g. "Gorilla Glue" or Elmer's version of it, which I like better because it doesn't harden inside the bottle as readily as Gorilla Glue does). The nice thing about the polyurethane glues is that they use water to activate -- you moisten both the ferrule's surface and the glue-side of the tip before applying the glue. Then, clamp it tight. As the glue activates, it expands and fills all the little crevices inside the bond. You will have the glue "bleed" out from under the tip -- which you'll have to carefully trim -- but the bond is amazing. That glue bonds to just about everything, including the slickest of plastics (e.g. phenolics).
However, you asked about which is the fastest-setting, right? I hear that Loctite's Gel cyanoacrylate glues are extremely fast-setting and strong:
Again, this is a good question for "Ask the Cuemaker."
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
From my experience the strongest glues are the slower setting ones. Tweeten is very slow setting and that is why alot of cue repair people tend to not use it these days but nothing welds a tip on like properly set Tweeten.
Most of the crazy glue types of fast setting glues seem to be too brittle when they set and cracks form over time and the tip can come loose. Almost every tip job I have seen using fast setting glues end up with areas between the tip and ferrule that do not properly set that are obvious when the tip is finally removed. You end up with gaps and air pockets that not only have the chance of making the tip come loose completely but those gaps also screw up the hit of the cue.
Most of the crazy glue types of fast setting glues seem to be too brittle when they set and cracks form over time and the tip can come loose. Almost every tip job I have seen using fast setting glues end up with areas between the tip and ferrule that do not properly set that are obvious when the tip is finally removed. You end up with gaps and air pockets that not only have the chance of making the tip come loose completely but those gaps also screw up the hit of the cue.
I agree, Celtic. As proof of this, I had a Samsara tip that kept popping off of the phenolic ferrule of my break cue, no matter how careful I (or my cue repair guy) was with cyanoacrylate glues. After about the 5th time of it popping off (I have a break in the upper 20s), my cue repair guy "punted" and used a polyurethane glue instead (which takes 12-24 hours to reach full strength). That was over 5 years ago, and the tip is still on to this day. Again, I'm a big fan of the polyurethane glues because they expand when activated with water, forcing air bubbles out of the joint as they cure.
-Sean
Naji -
I am not a cue maker.
I buy three tubes of Super Glue (regular or gel) for a dollar at my local Dollar Store. I sand the end of the ferrule and back of the tip, apply a drop of glue to the back of the tip, spread it evenly, attach the tip to the ferrule, and hold it firmly in place for 30+ seconds.
After installation I sand and shape the tips, apply a wipe of beeswax to the ferrule and side of the tip, and burnish them vigorously with a piece of heavy brown paper. Takes 20+ minutes. When finished, appearance is 8- 9 out of 10 compared to a professional tip installation with a lathe.
I have installed 20+ tips this way in the last two years. They are all still working fine. Solid hits with no gaps or loosening. Works for me.
Rick
I am not a cue maker.
I buy three tubes of Super Glue (regular or gel) for a dollar at my local Dollar Store. I sand the end of the ferrule and back of the tip, apply a drop of glue to the back of the tip, spread it evenly, attach the tip to the ferrule, and hold it firmly in place for 30+ seconds.
After installation I sand and shape the tips, apply a wipe of beeswax to the ferrule and side of the tip, and burnish them vigorously with a piece of heavy brown paper. Takes 20+ minutes. When finished, appearance is 8- 9 out of 10 compared to a professional tip installation with a lathe.
I have installed 20+ tips this way in the last two years. They are all still working fine. Solid hits with no gaps or loosening. Works for me.
Rick
Thanks much Rick and all. Highly appreciate it.
I have had success with Loctite 454 gel for years on hundreds of tips.
I also use the CA glue from my .99 cent store. The reason I do, is that there are two small tubes of glue in a package which sells for 99 cents. I've used Loctite and it works very well. My problem with Loctite is that's it's a large bottle and I only do about 1 or 2 tips/month for friends. I'm always concerned with shelf-life although I store it in a refrigerator. I usually glue 1 or 2 tips with a tube of the 99 cents glue and then throw it away. That way I'm always assured that the glue is fresh. Before you install the tip, be sure that the ferrule is clean and flat. Check the flatness by holding the tip on the ferrule and inspect for any gap. That's critical for a permanent install. Sand the tip and score it lightly as well as the ferrule with a razor blade before applying a drop or two of glue. Worry more about having a clean flat ferrule and flat tip rather than the glue. On some tips you may want to put a drop of glue on the glue side, let it dry and then sand. Some tips absorb the glue quickly and you get a poor bond. The preparation is key to a good stong bond. Good luck with your installs.
naji:
You might want to post this in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22
Personally, I don't mind a long set time for glue. I personally like the polyurethane glues (e.g. "Gorilla Glue" or Elmer's version of it, which I like better because it doesn't harden inside the bottle as readily as Gorilla Glue does). The nice thing about the polyurethane glues is that they use water to activate -- you moisten both the ferrule's surface and the glue-side of the tip before applying the glue. Then, clamp it tight. As the glue activates, it expands and fills all the little crevices inside the bond. You will have the glue "bleed" out from under the tip -- which you'll have to carefully trim -- but the bond is amazing. That glue bonds to just about everything, including the slickest of plastics (e.g. phenolics).
However, you asked about which is the fastest-setting, right? I hear that Loctite's Gel cyanoacrylate glues are extremely fast-setting and strong:
Again, this is a good question for "Ask the Cuemaker."
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
this is the best stuff for applying a cue tip
Again, thank you all. Highly appreciate the responses.
original Krazy glue works great , I never had a tip come off with it. I use the sanding fixture to clean & true the end of the ferrule. I then scuff the glue side of the tip on the sand paper which works best for me. Dont have a lathe so I finish it very carefully by hand.
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I go crazy trying to find this stuff, (pardon the pun) I love it.
http://www.krazyglue.com/products/catalog.aspx?g=13
http://www.krazyglue.com/products/catalog.aspx?g=13
naji, be forewarned that if you use the quick-drying CA type glues mentioned here that you had better get the tip you are gluing on centered on the ferrule quickly or you will be cutting off a brand new tip for another "stab" at it.
I don't often use a CA type glue, but when I do, I use a tip 1mm larger than the ferrule diameter. This way I have a little "wiggle room" if the glue sets before I get the tip centered perfectly.
Maniac (uses 2-part epoxy)
I don't often use a CA type glue, but when I do, I use a tip 1mm larger than the ferrule diameter. This way I have a little "wiggle room" if the glue sets before I get the tip centered perfectly.
Maniac (uses 2-part epoxy)
CA from the 99 cent store is probably far from "fresh"... their turn around time is horrible and they probably bought it from a company that went out of business, so it is many years old by the time they put it on a shelf (and not stored refrigerated during all that time).
Also, storing sealed CA in a fridge will extend its' shelf life, but not after you open it... the moisture in a fridge is horrible for an opened bottle of CA.
Maniac -
You are right. I should have mentioned I buy only 14 mm tips just to have the "wiggle room" on a 12-13 mm ferrule.
Paulie -
I don't know the shelf of life of an unopened tube of super glue. I have never had a problem with a freshly opened tube. I don't see a date code on the package, so maybe "fresh" is not critical as long as the tube is unopened.
Rick
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be forewarned that if you use the quick-drying CA type glues mentioned here that you had better get the tip you are gluing on centered on the ferrule quickly or you will be cutting off a brand new tip for another "stab" at it. I don't often use a CA type glue, but when I do, I use a tip 1mm larger than the ferrule diameter. This way I have a little "wiggle room" if the glue sets before I get the tip centered perfectly.
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CA from the 99 cent store is probably far from "fresh"...
You are right. I should have mentioned I buy only 14 mm tips just to have the "wiggle room" on a 12-13 mm ferrule.
Paulie -
I don't know the shelf of life of an unopened tube of super glue. I have never had a problem with a freshly opened tube. I don't see a date code on the package, so maybe "fresh" is not critical as long as the tube is unopened.
Rick
------------
be forewarned that if you use the quick-drying CA type glues mentioned here that you had better get the tip you are gluing on centered on the ferrule quickly or you will be cutting off a brand new tip for another "stab" at it. I don't often use a CA type glue, but when I do, I use a tip 1mm larger than the ferrule diameter. This way I have a little "wiggle room" if the glue sets before I get the tip centered perfectly.
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CA from the 99 cent store is probably far from "fresh"...
glue
i woundnt use anything else.
MMike
naji:
You might want to post this in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22
Personally, I don't mind a long set time for glue. I personally like the polyurethane glues (e.g. "Gorilla Glue" or Elmer's version of it, which I like better because it doesn't harden inside the bottle as readily as Gorilla Glue does). The nice thing about the polyurethane glues is that they use water to activate -- you moisten both the ferrule's surface and the glue-side of the tip before applying the glue. Then, clamp it tight. As the glue activates, it expands and fills all the little crevices inside the bond. You will have the glue "bleed" out from under the tip -- which you'll have to carefully trim -- but the bond is amazing. That glue bonds to just about everything, including the slickest of plastics (e.g. phenolics).
However, you asked about which is the fastest-setting, right? I hear that Loctite's Gel cyanoacrylate glues are extremely fast-setting and strong:
Again, this is a good question for "Ask the Cuemaker."
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
i woundnt use anything else.
MMike
I still use Tweetens (I'm old school :wink
. I always let the tip set up overnight before going to work on it. I never use a knife or razor on my tips, preferring instead a variety of sandpapers from extremely fine on up to get it trimmed down, cleaned off and ready to go. I use either leather or the back of a pack of paper matches (I told you I'm old school) to burnish the ferrule.
My tips don't fall off! I've had pro players come to me who had a tip put on at a tournament and now they had it in their hand. I tell them leave it with me and it will be good to go tomorrow. I've done tips for several pros and never heard a complaint. Of course my price is right too ($0). I can still "work" a tip for a player who is having problems with it. Things like mushrooming or a bad hitting surface can be easily repaired. It's amazing to me the horrible condition of tips I've seen pros playing with. I also know the secret to "tenderizing" a tip. That is, making a hard tip play softer. I can take almost any tip and make it play good.
Rafael used to like to play with a tip worn down to nothing, just a slight bulge on his ferrule. I convinced him to let me change it and put a very low profile tip on his cue. He won a couple of California tourneys after that.
. I always let the tip set up overnight before going to work on it. I never use a knife or razor on my tips, preferring instead a variety of sandpapers from extremely fine on up to get it trimmed down, cleaned off and ready to go. I use either leather or the back of a pack of paper matches (I told you I'm old school) to burnish the ferrule. My tips don't fall off! I've had pro players come to me who had a tip put on at a tournament and now they had it in their hand. I tell them leave it with me and it will be good to go tomorrow. I've done tips for several pros and never heard a complaint. Of course my price is right too ($0). I can still "work" a tip for a player who is having problems with it. Things like mushrooming or a bad hitting surface can be easily repaired. It's amazing to me the horrible condition of tips I've seen pros playing with. I also know the secret to "tenderizing" a tip. That is, making a hard tip play softer. I can take almost any tip and make it play good.
Rafael used to like to play with a tip worn down to nothing, just a slight bulge on his ferrule. I convinced him to let me change it and put a very low profile tip on his cue. He won a couple of California tourneys after that.
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Of all the glues I've purchased over the years, the only container that I've found with a good cap on it that doesn't let the remaining glue dry out quickly and dispenses nicely is the one at Ace Hardware, their generic brand of gel superglue. It's cheap, too. I had a container I found in the bottom of my tool kit that was at least two years old and kind of flat from being almost empty and it worked just fine.
fwiw,
Jeff Livingston
Tweetens for me, for 35 years, and all done by myself. Personally I wouldn't use anything else. I would add one note though, when doing a tip for a friend, I couldn't get Tweetens to work with the new Predator ferrule. Ended up having to use a super glue for that, but that's the only exception for me. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has noticed that.
The Loc Tite Gel gives you an extra bit of time to set the tip in place.
There are some troublesome ferrule materials out there, thats a fer sure but you shouldn't ever have a problem with any CA glue getting brittle and popping a tip. Not if you take a few extra precautions and prep both the tip and ferrule properly.
I'll second the Dollar Store crazy glues for a buck. You're taking a chance with how old it is already.
I open a bottle of CA, use it and put it back in its container and store it in the freezer until next time. I have never had a problem with it and would trust the freezer before I'd just leave it out on the bench.
There are some troublesome ferrule materials out there, thats a fer sure but you shouldn't ever have a problem with any CA glue getting brittle and popping a tip. Not if you take a few extra precautions and prep both the tip and ferrule properly.
I'll second the Dollar Store crazy glues for a buck. You're taking a chance with how old it is already.
I open a bottle of CA, use it and put it back in its container and store it in the freezer until next time. I have never had a problem with it and would trust the freezer before I'd just leave it out on the bench.