BHE vs FHE

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It will never happen. I'm not delusional enough to believe I could ever play perfect pool. Even when I have managed to go error-less in a set. There's always something that could have been improved on. I'm content enough with the 680 spd results my approach has produce for me. That said, I do tinker.

As far as touting my own method. It's nothing special and I've already broken it down in this very thread. I rely heavily on HAMB, as do nearly all players with that level of table time. In my beginnings I was taught Ghost Ball, but we should keep in mind that was during my snooker era +30yrs ago and the system riddled internet wasn't around. If I had to do it again. I'd definitely adopt a system. A great way to fast track positive results. Unfortunately I don't think a "air pump and hope" method would catch my interest.

So I don't have a forum 'system evangelist decoder ring'. Just a guy that has a decent amount of time at the table and grasp of the subtle things most players don't realize their doing.

If you believe your approach the best thing since sliced bread. Then by all means continue to plod along doing whatever it is your doing. I'm not the guy you need to bend a knee to. Hopefully where ever you've silently plateaued has been as satisfying as my efforts. However if you have a problem with me critiquing what you have posted. Then either ignore me or stop posting the questionable where I happen to be active. ;)

I didn't check your link yet but by your own medicine, 30 years playing and you ha'n't broke 700? Who you tryin to kid?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Again, misrepresenting what I said. Seems to be all you got...

Some videos (Dr. Dave's, for instance) teach a lot - but you're not him (God knows), and your "vanity challenge" is empty nonsense (like Spidey's frequent "challenges") that really only shows your lack of knowledge.

pj
chgo
Not logical of you: "Matt wants to make a video with both of us playing because this video will show Matt's lack of knowledge and skills."

So let's get to why you won't post videos of your play.
 
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BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Your scatter will be crap too.

How can you seriously think you can change shot speeds and english amounts and consistently hit the same spot on the horizontal axis while twisting your wrist on the fly is beyond me.

You can try to be wordy and put salespitch crap on your method but your method will remain inferior.
I'd love to discuss the particulars with you, but you are firmly closed to alternatives.

What I do is sometimes offer alternative methods to students who've struggled with mastery in an area, in some cases, for decades.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
+300 posts.........This thread has run it's course for me......and there is far too much of what is in my UAS link below......Plus I am Hungry for some Ham and Eggs.....and a thumb technique thread just started up on the Tidly Winks forum....I need to get in on that!!!!
I appreciate you trying, though. I'm not sure I understand why some players, free to reject alternative cueing techniques, won't rest until no one else feels safe trying them either!
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I saw Sparkle's reply to you regarding me, so I "un-ignored" you to see what was suggested.
Jesus Christ...you two go through a lot of work and thinking to pull off a single shot. I'm not implying that you're bad players in the least bit. Fact is, I think both of you are pretty good players.
Thank you. I consider myself a strong "club player". Success on the road has never been very fruitful for me. If I was to be completely honest. I lean too heavily on being familiar with the equipment. It takes me too long to adjust and my game has been developed with having a firm knowledge of what I can expect from the table. It's a failing for sure. Highly doubt I'll ever improve on it.
Tell me what you see and do visually and mechanically when you have a dead straight in shot at the next to last ball on the table with no need for spin, just some roll forward to get to the last ball. How do you line it up? IOW, what do you see and do?
You kindly pasted in my method in an other very recent post so I'll use it, and tweak for your situation above.

When I'm standing up I do the following:
  • Determine the pocket and subsequent shot line for the OB
  • Determine the route I want the CB to follow after said shot
  • Determine a rough aim line from CB to OB
When I'm getting down on the shot I do the following:
  • Place bridge hand on the table.
When I'm down on the shot I do the following:
  1. I cue straight down my rough aim line w/ center CB and develop a fine tuned aim line
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. Ensure I'm cueing straight
  5. Pull trigger
So the only variance are the 2 steps that include determining required english and then the compensation for squirt/swerve.

I know you think I'm doing a lot, but it's really no different than what anyone does. I think the only possible deviation from the norm might be my calculation of english and aim correction while down on the ball. The first 4 bullet points are done by literally every player at any skill level. The only erroneous step is number 4. ...and I don't see that as bloat. More so something the vast majority could benefit from if they made the conscious effort.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Wow! LOL. Was I ever wrong. I was always under the impression that you and JV were blood brothers in the play by the numbers and equations Geek squad. Whoda thunk both of you would be butting heads?
Me play by numbers...? Never have been, never will be.

As far as butting heads. Straightline just has an issue with something calling bunk on the notion that he lands perfectly when getting down on the ball. I have zero doubt he thinks he does. However thought is not reality.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Not butting heads. Just tired of indulging the shark child. If he can't see using the stick to connect two points in space, I can't help him.
What indulging...? All you've done is claim something and get you panties in a knot. In this thread I have thoroughly explained what I do and how I go about it, and openly shared the level of success I have had, and my short comings.

Still very curious at your speed. Maybe I'm wrong and I should be running around the room air pumping before every set. Who knows. I'm willing to be humbled.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What indulging...? All you've done is claim something and get you panties in a knot. In this thread I have thoroughly explained what I do and how I go about it, and openly shared the level of success I have had, and my short comings.

Still very curious at your speed. Maybe I'm wrong and I should be running around the room air pumping before every set. Who knows. I'm willing to be humbled.
You winged the concept. If you incorporated some of my aiming techniques instead of mocking them you could very well be into the 7s. As it is you and many others are mired in a self attenuating, approach to pool.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I didn't check your link yet but by your own medicine, 30 years playing and you ha'n't broke 700? Who you tryin to kid?
Sorry... Did I imply that your method doesn't have any merit if you're not over 700..? Pretty sure I didn't but if you misunderstood something I wrote, then I apologize. You've wandered around AZB long enough to know that many post with authority on subject matter but the extreme few quantify their thoughts with their actual spd. You must agree that taking advice or critique on how to play the game by someone without any level of success, is a fool's errand. This is why I'm asking you to quantify you competitive ability. This is not a ploy to besmirch your efforts, but to she some light on the potential success one may have following your method. Clearly you don't need to be forth coming.

I agree if I was trying to crack the 700 ceiling then 30yrs of dedicated play should have gotten me there...lol. Of course I've only been aware of Fargo for maybe the last 4yrs, been playing steady again for maybe 6, and have been only maintaining my game with one night of weekly league. I do have days of 700 play, but obviously not consistently enough to have my rating average out at that level.

So I'm not trying to kid anyone. How about you..?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
You winged the concept. If you incorporated some of my aiming techniques instead of mocking them you could very well be into the 7s. As it is you and many others are mired in a self attenuating, approach to pool.
That's very possible. So far all I know of your technique is that it's done while "prone" and you land perfectly when you get down on the shot.

I'm fully aware of what can get me into the 700's. Maybe your trail blazing can get me to the 750's. Do you break it down in any great detail within the forum..? Is there a prologue that details the amount of success you've obtained practicing the method in competition..?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
blah blah etc...
Oh wait...

Sorry... Did I imply that your method doesn't have any merit if you're not over 700..? Pretty sure I didn't but if you misunderstood something I wrote, then I apologize. You've wandered around AZB long enough to know that many post with authority on subject matter but the extreme few quantify their thoughts with their actual spd. You must agree that taking advice or critique on how to play the game by someone without any level of success, is a fool's errand. This is why I'm asking you to quantify you competitive ability. This is not a ploy to besmirch your efforts, but to she some light on the potential success one may have following your method. Clearly you don't need to be forth coming.

I agree if I was trying to crack the 700 ceiling then 30yrs of dedicated play should have gotten me there...lol. Of course I've only been aware of Fargo for maybe the last 4yrs, been playing steady again for maybe 6, and have been only maintaining my game with one night of weekly league. I do have days of 700 play, but obviously not consistently enough to have my rating average out at that level.

So I'm not trying to kid anyone. How about you..?

You're just sculpting words. You have yet to include truth in your assertions. nothing educational there.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
You're just sculpting words. You have yet to include truth in your assertions. nothing educational there.
What do you want to know specifically...?? Give me some clear direction so I don't waste anymore of your time with blah blah blah. I'm trying to be forth coming. You seem to be the one dancing.

What's your speed again..?
 

DeadStick

i like turtles
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jesus Christ...you two go through a lot of work and thinking to pull off a single shot. I'm not implying that you're bad players in the least bit. Fact is, I think both of you are pretty good players.
Tell me what you see and do visually and mechanically when you have a dead straight in shot at the next to last ball on the table with no need for spin, just some roll forward to get to the last ball. How do you line it up? IOW, what do you see and do?
It’s only a lot of work when you see it written down including all the “automatic” stuff. It feels like zero work to me. If I’m in the flow it’s fast and mostly subconscious.

My version of it:

1. Find the CCB aim line while standing (feel/GB/HAMB), decide what shot to play, visualize the shot play out.

2. Come down on aim line, refine aim and make english adjustments while down and feathering, including subtle bridge and body shifts if needed (rare).

3. Pull the trigger

In your example scenario above, I would see that it’s a straight shot with follow. I would pick a spot in my mind where I want the CB to stop. Stand behind shot, come down on aim line with cue bridged high center, micro-adjust aim for a straight shot sight picture, once happy pull the trigger.
 

DeadStick

i like turtles
Gold Member
Silver Member
So far all I know of your technique is that it's done while "prone"
ooh I want to learn more about this one too, looks relaxing…

1708530892349.png
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you want to know specifically...?? Give me some clear direction so I don't waste anymore of your time with blah blah blah. I'm trying to be forth coming. You seem to be the one dancing.

What's your speed again..?
What's competitive ability got to do with basic fundamentals? You really have nothing to offer except your take on some antiquated player wisdom and chops. If we were face to face you'd be pushing for a pool match.

CG and BHE are about accurate and consistent shooting with minimal guesswork and even less mathematical baggage... ;
for anybody to learn and grow with.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Not logical of you: "Matt wants to make a video with both of us playing because this video will show Matt's lack of knowledge and skills."
Do you speak English?

I said insisting on a video shows your lack of knowledge, not that a video itself would (although I'm pretty sure you'd find a way).

So once again you're being dumb and/or dishonest - I'm going with "and".

pj
chgo
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Sorry... Did I imply that your method doesn't have any merit if you're not over 700..? Pretty sure I didn't but if you misunderstood something I wrote, then I apologize. You've wandered around AZB long enough to know that many post with authority on subject matter but the extreme few quantify their thoughts with their actual spd. You must agree that taking advice or critique on how to play the game by someone without any level of success, is a fool's errand. This is why I'm asking you to quantify you competitive ability.
I see that you put a good bit of validity into Fargo ratings which is fine if someone is involved in league play or tournaments.
Everyone isn't but they can be excellent players that play for money but don't have the time for leagues because they're still working stiffs putting in the hours where they make a lot more money. I won't call them gamblers necessarily because there are those who flat out know from watching that there's no gamble at all since they could waste everyone in the room, or a high percentage for the bucks.

But let's talk about Fargo and other credentials. What would you think about a person who had OVER a 700 Fargo rating and has it currently, and before Fargo was even in the imagination stage of it being created? How about if the person won a professional event with other professional players and finished high in some other pro tournaments?

Let's add something else. The same individual became and has been a Master Instructor in the PBIA of pool which takes a number of years and dedication to knowledge and professionalism? https://bca-pool.com/page/HowToInst...with,to become qualified billiard instructors.

What If they taught one of their children to acquire the greatest amateur record during their youth in the history of the game as well as to be able to beat top pro players in matches?

How about that same person giving lessons to top women professionals and top male professionals who are good enough to be on the Mosconi Cup team 3 times as a result of the training?

I think you know who I'm talking about but on THIS forum it's a major sin to say his name...Stan Shuffett! Why? Because of those UNDER a 600 Fargo can say and do as they please and get away with it. Should this be like it is?

How I play is along the lines of what he teaches in various ways. Either an angled cue from a pivot or center and edge visuals.

No need to answer if you don't feel like it. I didn't do this to set a trap or anything else for a flame war. Just sayin'. There are many different ways of doing things at the table.
 
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