BHE vs FHE

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
i do get it but one way is far superior to the other and more consistent. your point is well taken
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
i do get it but one way is far superior to the other and more consistent. your point is well taken
You're going to get yourself in trouble with the "self-Annointed forum Gods of pool" by stating that one is "SUPERIOR".
(which means it works like a charm) And, you're RIGHT!
 

pw98

Registered
As an instructor, you might want to use the correct anatomical terms. Pronation and supination are rotational movements of the forearm, which would make no sense in a pool stroke.

The terminology you’re looking for is wrist flexion (will move the cue butt closer to your body) and extension (will move the butt away from your body).

View attachment 743302
Actually both flexion and pronation or extention and supination are being performed.

This is because with euler angles if you are holding one axis constant to change another axis you must change two axises.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BHE was used mostly when you got straight in on a ball, sometimes if it was just a tiny bit the wrong way , you could even overcome that. {meaning the natural angle to pocket the ball means the cueball must go left, but if it was not too much , you could make it go right anyway, that is a huge positional advantage!}
From some of the explanations I have read, either I am talking about something else or some people don't understand what is actually happening.
I always lined up straight behind the balls and aimed with the center of the cue at the contact point. I took 3 strokes and on the last stroke went forward either moving the cue tip to the right of center or left of center, usually at the max point of contact on the cueball without miscueing. This actually makes the cueball come at the object ball at an angle , even when dead straight in.
This meant you could go forward 1, 2, or 3 rails for position ,instead of just drawing back or following to the area between the object ball and the pocket.
I never used a good low deflection cue , so I don't know for sure if it is possible to the same extent with one, I doubt it.
Also the pockets were 4 1/2 inches or a bit more , I never played on 4 1/4 inch , I would think it can still be done , I believe most of my shots were near center pocket but less room for tiny errors.
I could never make the ball bend the correct amount shooting soft, so I always hit it the same speed and added or subtracted distance with high or low english. I was extremely accurate with BHE , not so much with FHE, which required different pivot points , the way I was shown, depending on the length of the shot. That was a bit too much for me to do, at one time.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
BHE was used mostly when you got straight in on a ball, sometimes if it was just a tiny bit the wrong way , you could even overcome that. {meaning the natural angle to pocket the ball means the cueball must go left, but if it was not too much , you could make it go right anyway, that is a huge positional advantage!}
From some of the explanations I have read, either I am talking about something else or some people don't understand what is actually happening.
I always lined up straight behind the balls and aimed with the center of the cue at the contact point. I took 3 strokes and on the last stroke went forward either moving the cue tip to the right of center or left of center, usually at the max point of contact on the cueball without miscueing. This actually makes the cueball come at the object ball at an angle , even when dead straight in.
This meant you could go forward 1, 2, or 3 rails for position ,instead of just drawing back or following to the area between the object ball and the pocket.
I never used a good low deflection cue , so I don't know for sure if it is possible to the same extent with one, I doubt it.
Also the pockets were 4 1/2 inches or a bit more , I never played on 4 1/4 inch , I would think it can still be done , I believe most of my shots were near center pocket but less room for tiny errors.
I could never make the ball bend the correct amount shooting soft, so I always hit it the same speed and added or subtracted distance with high or low english. I was extremely accurate with BHE , not so much with FHE, which required different pivot points , the way I was shown, depending on the length of the shot. That was a bit too much for me to do, at one time.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’ve been using Backhand English for 25 years and am/was a Hal Houle student.

- don’t have to be straight
- works on < 4 1/2” pockets
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
You learn by repetition and playing till it becomes natural.
Truer words have never been spoken on this forum. Even the worst mechanics and stroke methodology can work when practiced enough.

The problem is some of horrible advice given in this very thread is timing oriented. That's the best way to have your game be hot/cold on any given day.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’ve been using Backhand English for 25 years and am/was a Hal Houle student.

- don’t have to be straight
- works on < 4 1/2” pockets
As I said in my post, it's possible I am not talking about the same thing, although whoever showed it to me , called it back hand English. I heard of Hal long probably 35 years ago and once contacted him, but it was right before he died. I wish I had gotten to meet him.
My best guess is that I am doing something with similar results , but not the same way. I always called it BHE because I think thats what the person who taught me called it, it could be called controlled deflection, just as easily .
1. I didn't say it had to be straight, I just never found a reason to use it when I could get the cueball where I wanted without all that juice.
2. I said I used it on 41/2 but no smaller so I didn't know.
3. All I know for sure is that the pivoting motion I do , makes the cueball come at the object ball at an angle from anywhere from a distance of about 18 inches to 3 and a half feet, outside those parameters , I lose too much accuracy.
I don't mean any of this in a negative way, I just try to be as factual as possible when I can. Sometimes it come s across as being cold, or harsh, which it is neither.
I tried to get into CTE but I never got it to work, which may have been caused by my mechanics?
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got caught up in this craziness once before and swore it wouldn't happen again, but here I am.
Even though the action of the cue in my shot is controlled entirely by the back hand putting english on the cueball I will call it controlled deflection or swerve, by coming across the face of the cueball with the tip, from now on, so no ones game will be destroyed by my misinformation.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Truer words have never been spoken on this forum. Even the worst mechanics and stroke methodology can work when practiced enough.

The problem is some of horrible advice given in this very thread is timing oriented.
What does this mean: "timing oriented" and "horrible advice" when referred to BHE?
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’ve been using Backhand English for 25 years and am/was a Hal Houle student.
Good thing rocks and stones can't be thrown through a computer screen, or you'd have many coming at your head for saying that about Hal and being a student from the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blanks with some nasty words) on this forum.
I was also a Hal Houle student, friend and damn proud of it. He was just one helluva man with a great pool mind.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BHE was used mostly when you got straight in on a ball, sometimes if it was just a tiny bit the wrong way , you could even overcome that. {meaning the natural angle to pocket the ball means the cueball must go left, but if it was not too much , you could make it go right anyway, that is a huge positional advantage!}
From some of the explanations I have read, either I am talking about something else or some people don't understand what is actually happening.
I always lined up straight behind the balls and aimed with the center of the cue at the contact point. I took 3 strokes and on the last stroke went forward either moving the cue tip to the right of center or left of center, usually at the max point of contact on the cueball without miscueing. This actually makes the cueball come at the object ball at an angle , even when dead straight in.
This meant you could go forward 1, 2, or 3 rails for position ,instead of just drawing back or following to the area between the object ball and the pocket.
I never used a good low deflection cue , so I don't know for sure if it is possible to the same extent with one, I doubt it.
Also the pockets were 4 1/2 inches or a bit more , I never played on 4 1/4 inch , I would think it can still be done , I believe most of my shots were near center pocket but less room for tiny errors.
I could never make the ball bend the correct amount shooting soft, so I always hit it the same speed and added or subtracted distance with high or low english. I was extremely accurate with BHE , not so much with FHE, which required different pivot points , the way I was shown, depending on the length of the shot. That was a bit too much for me to do, at one time.
 
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