What a great program that was. Thanks.
BHE vs FHE
- Thread starter slach
- Start date
Hey, you're alright. A good guy. Yes it was and still is. I watch the replays every year when they have a Twilight Zone marathon.
The pool match was a good one. They didn't show it closely enough, but I could see the one player was using BHE on most of his shots. He won.
Zerksies
Well-known member
I just algin my tip to the point whereas i think i will get the desired outcome. I stroke straight to make sure i hit that point on contact.
I call it "Pro BHE" since I've discussed it with pro friends who use this method.
I'm open-minded if you'd like to explain why you think it's a bad method, and whether you've tried it for yourself. I can give more details if you want to play test the method.
I appreciate what you've shared. Two of my books illustrate and describe all six movements, and in my books and other teaching, I warn people to NOT supinate or pronate in a pool stroke:
Now here's what's interesting, pronation and supination are to be avoided in a typical stroke, because why? We both know why, they take the cue off a straight-line path--which is the actual goal of backhand english.
We're discussing a pronation or supination of mere millimeters as enough to apply english. For example, if a right-handed shooter strives to strike (seemingly at) or quite near center CB, but with the left side of their tip, not the center of the tip, they can very slightly supinate the wrist, and generate good english, while the angle of approach is closer to the shot line than with other english methods.
Try it, a lot of students have loved this stroke. I can give more details on when it should or should not be used, depending.
I remember I was at work one time, and Hal pinged me from his email (webtv or whatever) to call him. He pretty much just wanted to talk. Yes a little about aiming and a little about forums, but just wanted to talk.
I never met Hal face to face but I did talk on the phone with him many years ago three times.....The first time I called him....the other two he called me just out of the blue.
No call was less than an hour long...he was always super nice.......He always reminded me of the Moe Norman of Pool....I would have loved to have met him.
For any desired shot/spin, there's only one cue angle, contact point and speed that works, whether you angle the cue before or during the stroke.
"Deviating the motion as you finish the stroke" does nothing different but add inconsistencies (and fuel debates here).
pj
chgo
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Yeah, IIRC he called me while I was at work. That seems to be why I stopped and talked to him.
I've told this before, but I was working on one of his systems. I asked him something specific, and he said, "you got it. Now I know you understand the systems. I'll allow you teach them." Or something to that effect. I never want to be considered anything other than a student of his that incorporated a couple of the dozen or dozens of systems he shared with me. The specific thing was about expanding beyond "two angles" and that if we expand, I found that there really is no need for "infinite number of angles" and that maybe 7 was the limit (I believe I said 7 and he said 9, but that the last two are pretty difficult to see and squeeze out.
I told him about using and defining different points like "the crook" and "the space between," and he said something like , "Yeah, yeah. I know about all those. I don't use them. But you can as long as it follows the same line of thinking." Which is ball-to-ball relation aiming with more emphasis on the cueball divisions since it's the ball closest to you. The easiest to start of course are centers and edges.. But they expand from there once a player gets the idea .
And now this belongs in the Aiming Forum!! LOL Apologies to all.
Gotcha.... consider the casual readers on the forum that could be mislead by the moniker.
I appreciate the offer, but I'll respectfully decline. As far as my opinion. One word: timing.
That twist of the wrist, (or whatever it is) is a timed "function" of the practitioner's stroke. It needs to begin at point 'X' in the stroke with the appropriate amount 'Y' movement to land to correctly on the CB. Whereas a straight piston type stroke, cued to the correct CB location has none of this erroneous timing.
Sure it can be learn and I'm sure it can be mastered. However I don't know why anyone would bother.
Heavens to Murgatroyd. I was hoping he was an AI spam bot. He's real??? Wow.
Anyway, swooping BHE I dubbed "Dynamic Backhand English" a couple decades ago. Other players used to call it 'swiping.' I played in a few tournaments in Massachusetts where there was a very good player (An A player per the All About Pool Tour) that did the swooping/swiping english thing. Shocking how successful he was.
I wouldn't rank my local "swooper" an A class player, but when he's timing is on he pots and moves the CB really well. Consistency with the required timing is his problem.
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Actually, it belongs everywhere. Unless one could have been with Hal in person or on the phone, it's hard to describe how super a man he really was as far as knowledge in many different ways to see and link the balls, sincerity, love for the game of pool, willingness to help, and a super human being in all respects.
NO APOLOGIES NEEDED!! Those who never knew him but knock everything should be the ones apologizing.
Is that a bunched up piece of tape on the end of the cue...?...lol Seems to be sticky side out as well.
It fuels understanding to promulgate knowledge. Debating a concept is a choice, no one is forced to argue against pros who use methods quite obviously successfully.
The point of learning pro BHE is a more optimal angle of approach. As I wrote, less adjustment is therefore typically needed for aiming with english to pocket the OB. Also, learning it is incredibly fast and easy.
And I do see your point, timing might mean I get a tip-and-a-quarter instead of a tip of english because of timing, but for a shot like this?
If you want a lot of right hand off the 6-ball for the 7, and I mean a surprising amount of english almost regardless of speed of stroke . . . a few shots with the old diagonal cue then a few with pro BHE will be convincing and proof.
Officially we're talking about swooping BHE. There is no more a pro version then there is an amateur version. Just because you know some pros using it, does not change the dynamics of the method.
Honestly I doubt it. The more likely reason for what is being perceived as "more english" is just the deviation of tip contact from the desired amount. Again, the result of poor timing of the "twist". Let me see if I can explain what I mean...
The vast majority of players will build up a safety margin in regards to acceptable tip placement vs miscue limit. I myself, tend to cue very conservatively when playing extreme follow. I consciously know I have breathing room to generate more english, but subconsciously have this conservative limit I adhere to. If we apply this to side english, we have the same "limited" action on the CB. Tip/CB placement vs generated english is equal, regardless of how that tip is delivered. Now if we apply the swooping technique you're coining as "pro BHE". What is being perceived as more action is just the tip landing beyond the self induced "miscue safety limit" the player has adopted. Players are just as likely to under produce spin as they are to generate more. However cueing in a straight piston like fashion allows to you determine exactly the tip placement and will consistently produce the desired amount of english. Timing is not required.
Hope I explained that clearly.
And he's a "CB last" guy.
Sportcraft cues with nylon wraps and banana wood shafts
It all fits.
A little too perfectly