Biggest Gambler Busted By Casino
- Thread starter KoolKat9Lives
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Bobby has a couple of WSOP bracelets, executive at Bellagio. Wiki says he is a world class billiards player. (kind of doubt that last part)
Exactly what I was going to say. It seems that this current trouble seems to only confirm that he is at least willing to cheat. I would be willing to extrapolate that and say his famous run wasn't the result of good fortune, he just didn't get caught that time.
Gamblers make me sad. I couldn't imagine being broke, telling the story of how I used to have 40 million before I gambled it all away again.
I could have never made that much gambling, but if I did that would have been the day I retired.
"Where there is gambling, there is cheating." That saying has been around for a thousand years.
As for the dice part, one cannot be charged for having the "technique" to throw the dice. One can throw the dice whichever and however way one wants, as long as the dice have to hit the end walls. The end walls have those "pointed foam" which cause the dice to bounced off randomly, which in turn will yield random numbers. Since the odds are stacked in the house favor, the casinos want "random" outcomes ===> guarantee wins for the house in the long run.
When someone is throwing dice, and they don't hit the end wall, they will be warned. If they continue to do so, the casinos will not let them play.
If one is good enough to develop the skills or techniques to beat the casinos fair and square, the casinos have the right to refuse to let them play, and they won't. But the casinos cannot bring charges against the players for fair "skills". they have to believe and can probably prove that "cheating" was involved. This is exactly the same idea as card counting ==> legal (and card markings ---> illegal).
Just to clarify.
Archie still shows up at the pool rooms in Las Vegas every now and then. His favorite game is One-Pocket, playing for about $700 a game. You just have to give up the right amount of weight to get that action.
Unfortunately, it looks like we won't be seeing him anytime soon.
Unfortunately, it looks like we won't be seeing him anytime soon.
I don't know whether Archie was cheating or not, but it is STATISTICALLY very, very possible to turn $40 into 40m with him. One must have a gambler's mind set, and done some heavy gamblings, to understand that it can happen with Archie.
What's his potential penalty for this little "oversight"?
No TV for a week? Or an all expense paid trip to 3 squares and soap for a decade?
No TV for a week? Or an all expense paid trip to 3 squares and soap for a decade?
Very nice post Raise, i always wonder how the casinos could be allowed to only let certain people gamble with them (suckers) when someone finds a way to beat them, of course they want nothing to do with that.
But suckers losing their money all the time can play as long as they want.
If a person is smart enough to beat a game on the square, then they should be able to play!
Now if someone is cheating, well that is not the same, they should be never allowed back in.
For every extra sharp person that can beat BJ, there are probably 10000 suckers that have no idea how to win!
I guess I am a little weird. I love to hear how a guy either cheats or beats the casino. I mean the casino business is a license to steal really.
I was wrong years ago as I was one that thought allowing casinos throughout the country verses just in Vegas would be okay. But what I have seen is instead of seeing those communities improve, they decline too. The money is just sucked out of the areas. I thought since I didn't gamble in them and only the stupid ones did, how did it hurt me? What I have learned is stupid people go, drop their money and then when they are broke I have to support them..
The local casinos also take the money from pool too.
The other thing that amazes me is pool players. They have a talent and win money and then blow it on race tracks and casinos. I heard the rumor that Keith McCready as soon as he was paid for the COM, the next day he blew the money at the track. Pool players who can be so savvy gambling at pool and then become even more stupid at casinos.
One of the arguments against Bonus Ball (yes I said it) is that it is in Vegas. IF it had worked out, most thought the pool players would still be broke from the life in Vegas.
But I also root for the bank robbers in the movies too...:thumbup:
Ken
I was wrong years ago as I was one that thought allowing casinos throughout the country verses just in Vegas would be okay. But what I have seen is instead of seeing those communities improve, they decline too. The money is just sucked out of the areas. I thought since I didn't gamble in them and only the stupid ones did, how did it hurt me? What I have learned is stupid people go, drop their money and then when they are broke I have to support them..
The local casinos also take the money from pool too.
The other thing that amazes me is pool players. They have a talent and win money and then blow it on race tracks and casinos. I heard the rumor that Keith McCready as soon as he was paid for the COM, the next day he blew the money at the track. Pool players who can be so savvy gambling at pool and then become even more stupid at casinos.
One of the arguments against Bonus Ball (yes I said it) is that it is in Vegas. IF it had worked out, most thought the pool players would still be broke from the life in Vegas.
But I also root for the bank robbers in the movies too...:thumbup:
Ken
Spider, I tend to work the opposite way. I bought a tractor, trailer once and turned a ton of money into nothing.
Nope. If you put him in a controlled environment, it could never happen. Mindset can't beat the math.
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I guess I am a little weird. I love to hear how a guy either cheats or beats the casino. I mean the casino business is a license to steal really.
I was wrong years ago as I was one that thought allowing casinos throughout the country verses just in Vegas would be okay. But what I have seen is instead of seeing those communities improve, they decline too. The money is just sucked out of the areas. I thought since I didn't gamble in them and only the stupid ones did, how did it hurt me? What I have learned is stupid people go, drop their money and then when they are broke I have to support them..
The local casinos also take the money from pool too.
The other thing that amazes me is pool players. They have a talent and win money and then blow it on race tracks and casinos. I heard the rumor that Keith McCready as soon as he was paid for the COM, the next day he blew the money at the track. Pool players who can be so savvy gambling at pool and then become even more stupid at casinos.
One of the arguments against Bonus Ball (yes I said it) is that it is in Vegas. IF it had worked out, most thought the pool players would still be broke from the life in Vegas.
But I also root for the bank robbers in the movies too...:thumbup:
Ken
I actually agree with this. I wasn't knocking him for cheating... it just is what it is. I agree the casinos are licensed to steal. God forbid someone figures out a legit angle against them, they ban the person and the angle.
I always root against the casinos. I'm actually glad he drummed the casino. I'm just saying his run wasn't full of ninja decisions after ninja decisions. If he was "that guy," he never would have dumped it back into pool matches. He'd do it again next week.
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I dont know where this new amount of $50 has come from. If I recall correctly, didnt he borrow 10 grand from a friend in vegas and started betting real high from the get go? Then he paid back the 10 grand right away and continued to win big scores. Jay and Freddy both know the details.
I probably have forgotten more Math than most people have ever learned. So I know what you mean when you say Math can't be beat. However, the key is long term (and random). :wink:
The "controlled environment" that you are implying applies only to the average Joe. They don't apply to the high rollers nor to the whales, especially to the biggest of whales. With the bankroll of over $1 million when he started playing dice at Binion -which was well documented as how he got to that point- , Archie was probably THE whale back then in term of dollar amount. And if he runs it up to $30-$40 million, that's about 30+ times more than what he bought in. To win 30-40 times of your buy-in is a great run, but anyone who has gambled long enough has probably experienced that once in their lives. The difference is the actual dollar amount, but then it is Archie that we are talking about here. His mindset was/is and probably will be forever unique. The man remains unequal. Phil Ivey is close but still not in Archie's level.
As a former addict to gambling with a strong Math background, I was very fascinated with Archie's story just like anyone who loves gambling. I followed his career very closely.
If he was reputedly lost $30 million (on the square), why couldn't he have won that (on the square)?
Look up "Isildur1" when you have a chance. These individuals are unique. Logic does not apply to them.
He didn't start with the mil, he started with $50. He won 1000000x his buy-in. Nobody starts with 50 and runs it to 40M without cheating unless they bought a lotto ticket or bought some crap at a yard sale that was worth a fortune.
Logic may not apply but odds def do.
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You got wrong information if you are saying that he started with $50 and won $40mil playing dice from that original $50.
When he started playing dice at the Binion and went on to that historic run, his bankroll was about $1 mil +/-.
He got that bankroll from beating Baldwin playing pool. He was originally staked and won a large sum. When they changed the spot and up the bet, his backers didnt like it. So he bet his own and won huge. That was how he got the bankroll to play at the Binion. And as they say, the rest is history.
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According to Archie, his stake was closer to 4 million when he started his dice run. Aside from the Baldwin pool match. Most of that won playing HU razz versus Stu Unger and Chip Reese (and a few others).
Otherwise I agree with what you're saying in this thread. The odds say that, over the long term you can't beat the casino, which is exactly what happened. But, variance is a powerful thing, especially when coupled with a mentality where "risk of ruin" plays no part in the persons decision making process.
I've personally dealt to a player who bought into an empty craps table for $100 and an hour later left with 17,000. I'll always remember it because he tipped me $2 dollars
He made 1700 times his initial buy in. It doesn't happen very often but with the randomness of gambling and the ability not to worry about the money and just fire away at the right time it can happen.As for the dice cheating, many tables have an indentation in the prop area to help the dice "roll". What certain cheats do, is develop a technique to slide one die so that it remains a 6 and the other die will tumble and hit the wall. You can do it pretty consistently with practice. Another player will make a large bet in the field, with a 6 then a field number will turn up 2/3 of the time with a 12 paying double. The cheats will look for weak crews box and dealers that don't really pay attention to the roll and be able to do it a few rolls before getting noticed and then they are just warned.
I based the 50 off what the newspaper article said. If he's marking cards with dye...you're all suckers to think he bet any sizeable cash on the square. Even if he did, you must assume he didn't moving forward. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy...in fact, I love it. He's just not the legend ninja you think he is. Sorry.
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