Billiards Digest POW-MIA CUE- BETRAYAL

A valid reason.....

jay helfert said:
You guys are tough on here. I'd give the man some credit for responding so quickly and APOLOGIZING publicly to Joey. That takes a big man to do that. I think his response was nothing more than I would expect from a man who may have slighted someone inadvertently, and gave the reasons why it happened. And then apologized for same!

I have also contributed to Billiards Digest many times over the years, and I am proud to have my by-line on a story. To me it is the premier publication in the billiard industry by far. The best articles, best written and most interesting magazine out there. And I'm not saying that because I write for them occasionally. It would be my opinion if I never wrote one word in there.

The publisher of BD, Mike Panozzo, is one of the men I most respect in the billiard industry. As for Mason King, I have worked directly with him on several articles over the last couple of years. His job as Editor includes editing my articles and I'm not always happy about it, but he is the one who has to make everything fit, so it often has to be done. He has ALWAYS been forthright and honest with me in all our dealings. To me, he is a dedicated individual who takes his job seriously.

I also empathize with Joey. I can see why he felt slighted. I would have too. The cue and it's significance is very important to him. It sounds to me like both Joey and Mason told the truth as they know it. Their stories do not differ that much. I believe Mason when he says the similarities in the cues threw him off. I'm glad he was man enough to apologize to Joey, and I'd like to see Joey be man enough to accept his apology.
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......has been provided as well as an apology to Joey. I would hope that it will be understood and accepted so as not to detract from the memories of the sacrifices put forth by all remembered in the theme of his wonderful cue.
 
JoeyA said:
Maybe "everyone" jumped on "my bandwagon" because they took me at my word and believed my story.

Jay, your agenda was to plant the seed of doubt that there was another story and perhaps that I wasn't telling the whole story, which insinuates that I could have accidentally, ignorantly or purposefully left out details of the story that would alter the reality of what actually happened.

You could have discreetly and privately have done some checking on your own to check out my story since you believed there was another side of the story that I wasn't telling.

You didn't choose to do that Jay and you disappointed me almost as much as Mason did.

JoeyA
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Unlike you Joey, I had no "agenda". Your agenda has been to smear BD and Mason. There is ALWAYS another side to the story, and I wanted to hear Mason's, before I condemned him like you were doing. I did check on my own and published the response I got from Mason, where he publicly apologized to you.

I never insinuated anything, or made any assumptions whatsoever. That is a fantasy you created. I just wanted to hear Mason's side of what transpired, so I contacted him and asked him. His account is similar to yours, but varies in regard to making outright promises to you. He said that he made a mistake and thought he WAS featuring your cue. Then he apologized!

You're not satisfied with that though. You want an ounce of blood. From him and from me it seems. I'm learning a lot about you Joey through this thread. I now know you carry a grudge.

Why would you respond a second time to my post #32, when my post #57 is the last one (nearly 3 hours prior) before your post #58. Or did you chose to ignore post #57 and continue your feud by rehashing your post #35.
 
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Sweet Marissa said:
I used to run into them all the time and they have always been very nice :)
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If they are so nice, why are you always running into them????:D
 
jay helfert said:
Unlike you Joey, I had no "agenda". Your agenda has been to smear BD and Mason. There is ALWAYS another side to the story, and I wanted to hear Mason's, before I condemned him like you were doing. I did check on my own and published the response I got from Mason, where he publicly apologized to you.

I never insinuated anything, or made any assumptions whatsoever. That is a fantasy you created. I just wanted to hear Mason's side of what transpired, so I contacted him and asked him. His account is similar to yours, but varies in regard to making outright promises to you. He said that he made a mistake and thought he WAS featuring your cue. Then he apologized!

You're not satisfied with that though. You want an ounce of blood. From him and from me it seems. I'm learning a lot about you Joey through this thread. I now know you carry a grudge.

Why would you respond a second time to my post #32, when my post #57 is the last one before your post #58. Or did you chose to ignore post #57 and continue your feud by rehashing your post #35.
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Like I said Jay, you could have done your checking privately to learn if I misled anyone. Then if I did, you could have reported my misdeeds to the forum. You chose not to do that.

JoeyA
 
Joey,
I have some intimate knowledge of the magazine publishing business and putting out a magazine is difficult work. Not knowing the exact nature of BD's workflow and the nature of their production, I can still make a few points here in defense of BD. Production on monthly titles is done many months in advance. For example the deadline schedule for a magazine can easily look like this:

For July 2008 title
Ad insertions due 1/9/08
to proofing 2/6
to prepress 2/13
color proofs due 2/29
goes to printer 3/20
ships from printer 4/7
on sale date 5/6

most magazines hit the stands 4-8 weeks before the actual title date. This has alot to due with the fact the newsstands need time to sell and if buyers see a July 08 date they are much less inclined to buy it if its in mid july or august.

What i am getting at is that publishing (much like most business) is a complicated, heavy on the deadlines type of business. There is little to no room for error on many of those deadlines since the printing presses of today are so expensive that the printing houses book their presses to run 24/7/365 and way in advance. Miss your deadline, your shit out of luck and you cannot get printed since something else is rolling immediately after your slot is over.

Its not so easy to say just bypass that article for the month. They have to generate creative, the ad insertions have to be prospected, paid, creative received, approved and produced. Same goes for trying to put something else in the spot.

Also remember that Mason King as managing editor is juggling alot. Not to take anything away from your email conversations with him or the promises to publish that you understood were made, but he does have ALOT of things he has to do each month to make sure BD goes to press and gets distribution. The wand workshop, by the very nature of the fact that its outsourced to a third party tells me he is not active in that , the work is done probably 5-6 months in advance, and that Mason King is spending time on a host of other issues. Most print magazines these days are in freefall downwards. Everyone has lost huge numbers on circulation and in most cases circulation is the lifeblood of the advertising dollars. Mason is probably like most print guys...they spend more and more of their day dealing with how to put out a quality title each month when they have a smaller and smaller budget to work with.

I know your mad, but honestly there was another side of the story here, and my reading of what Jay posted is not that he was insinuating your not telling the truth as much as Jay was saying that you can jump to the conclusion there was ill intent on BD's end to do you wrong. Mason manned up and accepted he made mistakes and apologized.

Your a good guy Joey, dont spend your time focusing on negativity. Let it go.
 
Give Your Cue To The Smithsonian Institute for Posterity

Your biggest problem arose by going to Mason King, when if fact, you should have gone straight to the top.........Fred "Cornerman" Agnir.
For all things cue related, you could have gone over Fred's head to JimBo.
VIOLA !

Doug
( the squeaky wheel gets the grease........ imo )
 
Apology accepted and Photos to view.

hangemhigh said:
......has been provided as well as an apology to Joey. I would hope that it will be understood and accepted so as not to detract from the memories of the sacrifices put forth by all remembered in the theme of his wonderful cue.
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Your post is sobering and your thinking cannot be argued against.

The memories of the sacrificies that the POW's and MIA's deserve better.

Thank you for your insight and putting things in proper perspective.

In honor of all of our soldiers, I accept Mason's apology.

Some of you have wanted to see the pictures of my cue and cubc was kind enough to help make them available for everyone to see.

You can see the pictures at: http://immediateeffects.com/youarenotforgotten/

Thanks again for squaring me away and putting this in the proper perspective!

Sincerely,

JoeyA
 
Another reason I have a little more interest in this than the average Joe is that the cue isn't just some random custom made cue, it's a cue that Joey and the makers of it prided in having created as it was to honor those who were/are POW's. Most people in America seem to not realize that we are still at war. I see the war live and in my face every time I go into work seeing how I support the Special Forces while they're doing operations worldwide. After I separated from the military I took a job working in the commercial market making a lot of money by most peoples standards but then decided to quit that job and take the job I am at now, making considerably less money, because I felt the need to get back to supporting the military. I personally don't believe it was asking too much for a magazine editor to give this story a little extra attention and not let it slip 9 months. I thought it was quite disrespectful to Joey, who is veteran who fought in the Vietnam war. Lest we forget those Veterans who fought for this country and never repay the service they did for us.

Joey you know that the constant jabs you give Jay upset him and I don't believe you should be surprised nor upset by the comments he has made here. You guys are both respected individuals on this board and neither one of you enjoy having shots taken at your esteemed reputation.

Jay I don't believe it's your position to insinuate that Joey should be man enough to accept his apology. If Joey feels that the apology is suitable then he will accept it on his own terms and possibly do it privately where we may not know that he has done so.
 
JoeyA. Is A Class Act (that's why I pay him to be my friend)

JoeyA said:
Your post is sobering and your thinking cannot be argued against.

The memories of the sacrificies that the POW's and MIA's deserve better.

Thank you for your insight and putting things in proper perspective.

In honor of all of our soldiers, I accept Mason's apology.

Some of you have wanted to see the pictures of my cue and cubc was kind enough to help make them available for everyone to see.

You can see the pictures at: http://immediateeffects.com/youarenotforgotten/

Thanks again for squaring me away and putting this in the proper perspective!

Sincerely,

JoeyA
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BEAUTIFUL Cue and case. I liked the second to last picture the best.
Doug
 
JoeyA said:
Your post is sobering and your thinking cannot be argued against.

The memories of the sacrificies that the POW's and MIA's deserve better.

Thank you for your insight and putting things in proper perspective.

In honor of all of our soldiers, I accept Mason's apology.

Some of you have wanted to see the pictures of my cue and cubc was kind enough to help make them available for everyone to see.

You can see the pictures at: http://immediateeffects.com/youarenotforgotten/

Thanks again for squaring me away and putting this in the proper perspective!

Sincerely,

JoeyA
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stunning, absolutely ridiculously gorgeous cue.
 
Thats an amazing cue and case Joey. Bender and Justis really did outstanding work. Your cue and case is more impressive than the cue BD chose to go with in their article.
 
JoeyA said:
Your post is sobering and your thinking cannot be argued against.

The memories of the sacrificies that the POW's and MIA's deserve better.

Thank you for your insight and putting things in proper perspective.

In honor of all of our soldiers, I accept Mason's apology.

Some of you have wanted to see the pictures of my cue and cubc was kind enough to help make them available for everyone to see.

You can see the pictures at: http://immediateeffects.com/youarenotforgotten/

Thanks again for squaring me away and putting this in the proper perspective!

Sincerely,

JoeyA
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Awesome cue and case, Joey. Thanks for posting the pics. If I were able to get out more, literally and figuratively, I would have seen the cue by now. Hope to see you down the road soon.
 
JoeyA said:
Your post is sobering and your thinking cannot be argued against.

The memories of the sacrificies that the POW's and MIA's deserve better.

Thank you for your insight and putting things in proper perspective.

In honor of all of our soldiers, I accept Mason's apology.

Some of you have wanted to see the pictures of my cue and cubc was kind enough to help make them available for everyone to see.

You can see the pictures at: http://immediateeffects.com/youarenotforgotten/

Thanks again for squaring me away and putting this in the proper perspective!

Sincerely,

JoeyA
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Joey, I have seen my fair share of cues. This is by far the most inspiring cue I have every seen. This cue represents something very special to me. My brother was KIA in Afganistan. Sometimes its hard feeling that his sacrafice was worth it. I know in my heart that it was.

Again Joey, I truley thank you for designing and having the cue built.
 
DeadPoked said:
Another reason I have a little more interest in this than the average Joe is that the cue isn't just some random custom made cue, it's a cue that Joey and the makers of it prided in having created as it was to honor those who were/are POW's. Most people in America seem to not realize that we are still at war. I see the war live and in my face every time I go into work seeing how I support the Special Forces while they're doing operations worldwide. After I separated from the military I took a job working in the commercial market making a lot of money by most peoples standards but then decided to quit that job and take the job I am at now, making considerably less money, because I felt the need to get back to supporting the military. I personally don't believe it was asking too much for a magazine editor to give this story a little extra attention and not let it slip 9 months. I thought it was quite disrespectful to Joey, who is veteran who fought in the Vietnam war. Lest we forget those Veterans who fought for this country and never repay the service they did for us.

Joey you know that the constant jabs you give Jay upset him and I don't believe you should be surprised nor upset by the comments he has made here. You guys are both respected individuals on this board and neither one of you enjoy having shots taken at your esteemed reputation.

Jay I don't believe it's your position to insinuate that Joey should be man enough to accept his apology. If Joey feels that the apology is suitable then he will accept it on his own terms and possibly do it privately where we may not know that he has done so.
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DP, you have my respect not just for what you have said in this thread but for how you continue to support out troops. Thank you.

And you're probably right about Jay as well.
-------------------------
Jay my emotions ran a little high in this thread. :o

I hold no grudge against you not even in regards to your checking up on me. :) I do not have the slightest bit of anger toward you or Mason. Hangemhigh put me in the chiller. (thanks)

I especially hold no grudge and have no animosity toward you in regards to playing you some pool when we both have the time to do it. I know you are a good pool player and I respect your contributions to pool and value your "growing" friendship. We are both competitive and I know that you were busy at the DCC. I look forward to competing with you on another day.

Woofing will commence as soon as tranquility has been restored. :D

Hope everyone enjoys the photos and that we give a moment or two to think about the sacrifices that our soldiers are making today. Thanks to cubc for the help with the photos.

Special thanks to DeadPoked for letting me see another side of our story.
JoeyA
 
JoeyA,

That is a beautiful combination. The two compliment each other perfectly.
Thanks for sharing the photos and thank you for the service that you have provided for my freedom.

My nephew just joined the Marines 2 weeks ago. He is going through boot camp at Paris Island right now. I pray that he and his fellow marines find good fortune in these troubled times.

A tribute to all of those who have served is in order.

Peace, JBK

Below is a quick view of Joey's cue and case. I hope he does not mind my making it easier for folks to enjoy quickly.

DSC_0002.JPG
 
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