Bonus ball professional league announced

Lakers

Ain't that the truth! My cue and case were stolen yesterday while I was busy putting my laptop away. My cue was the one I had pictured in my avatar the past couple of years. Now that it's gone, I decided to change the avatar back to the old picture of me.

But enough of that. I just finished watching the Bonus Ball video, and I would like to congratulate everyone involved in its production. I think it is definitely a step in the right direction. Nathan from Run Out Media seems to know his business very well. Sure there were a few hiccups, such as inexperienced commentating from Rodney and Stevie; but I can overlook that for the moment because they will surely get better and better as time goes on. And sure, the jerseys may look a little like oversized night shirts; but nobody seems to care about that same look on hockey players. And maybe the team names may sound a little silly to some; but is that so different from team names in other professional sports? For instance, could someone please define what a Laker is outside the realm of basketball? To me, that's an example of a really silly name.

Anyway, I think the Bonus Ball people have the right concept, and I wish them great success. I can't wait to follow my home team. Go Phoenix Flames!

Roger

Roger, it goes goes back to the old NBA team the Minneapolis Lakers who eventually became the LA Lakers when the franchise relocated. minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes.
 
If bonus ball is par 5 than what is next, a big spinning windmill in front of every pocket and a water hazard in the middle of the table. How about a clown with balloons for everyone?

Your correct that change is the only thing that stays the same, but change for the sake of change is just like trying to push rope, no matter how hard you try it just dosent go forward.

Here we go again...taking things to extremes...i would not want to imagine spinning wind mills in front of pockets. That simply talking stupid. I called Bonus Ball a Par 5 simply because it was designed from the very best of all games of billiards in order to challenge the skills of top billiard players. Bonus Ball forces many exciting shots out of these great players and that is exciting! Watching the Mosconi Cup in Las Vegas was amazing after the nine ball drops! People were going crazy, yelling for their country! During the matches, the pros simply made the game look like checkers. The crowd was quiet. The announcing was behind closed doors and the biggest cheer during a game was when an odd bank shot was made! I see four or five bank attempts in on Bonus Ball match all the time. I like playing nine ball but watching pros does not excite me at all. That is why I call it a Par 5. That is why I have been behind it!
 
Honestly I watched the 40 minute vid and there is one pocket, eight ball, rotation, and 14.1 in there, not to mention banks and backpocket nine ball. I can see that some games are gong to wind up as defensive stalemates and run the clock out. To me this game doesn't seem easy at all especially with only three pockets to play into and having to keep up with what balls your opponent is on.
 
Like all billiard games, players at top level go into defensive mode simply because one miss in other games and your finished. That is not the case in Bonus Ball. Any defensive player will not last long in this game. Even at the amateur level, the offensive teams always come out on top. The reason for this is you can take an offensively aggressive move because you know you will not lose a game by playing aggressive. Klatt went defensively against Archer and you saw the final result. Archer broke free and won the game in the allotted time. We did design the game to have players reach the the score and win the game. In the event two players do go into a wild defensive battle, the result will be a shoot-out which will not only result in one player losing points for his team, even the winner does not get maxium points. Playing offensively is the best way to go in this game.
 
vpbb123...One thing you should NOT delude yourself about...the pro players claiming to "love" this new game are doing so because they are PAID to do so. A potentially 'regular paycheck' motivates people to like something in public, that they very well might disdain in private. I watched the video. The video quality is excellent. You and Larry (mostly Larry) have spent more than $3,000,000 already just to 'get this thing off the ground' (I got this figure from someone directly involved). It remains to be seen whether it will fly...or not. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

One thing to remember...if KT had taken $1,000,000 a year, and added $100K to 10 different tournament events, imo pro pool would be thriving big-time, with at least 100 players making six figure incomes. He really did have some quality ideas (dress for success, forcing the players to sit in the stands even after they get knocked out of the event, public awareness of the players via charity play and pics/autographs, plus the added value of excellent video, etc.), but just tried to go too big, too quickly. He could not pay off what he promoted (millions added to each tournament), and was labeled a "con man" and ripoff artist for it (truthfully KT IS a con man, but that was with his purported book schemes, more than pool). Time will tell with Bonus Ball.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

The steak is the game actually. The players really do like the challenge of the three pocket game and the fact that if you don't notice, they get several trips to the table.

However, nobody needs to watch it if they don't want. Just like the days when bar box tables arrived on the scene, they were looked down upon and sneered at by established players. Times have changed. People have changed. Cars have changed. It's not a bad thing to change. It takes way more guts to look outside the box than sit inside the box.

First time I watched a football game I sat there dumbfounded. I finally now understand the game. (still don't know the rules) I don't buy that this game is too hard or too many rules. That just means it's a more structured game. Try looking into a NASCAR rule book! There a 100,000 plus fans at most every race. They just enjoy the sport. If you don't enjoy watching these top players and the strategic and difficulty of Bonus Ball, yep don't watch it!

I like it when Larry said this to me..."Imagine Tiger Woods playing Par 3's all day long! He would never be seen as he is today! He is today what he is because he's one of the best ever at the highest level of golf. We just took the game of billiards and structured it to challenge the skills of better players. Bonus Ball is Par 5!
 
Really, ask yourself this question...why would pro players not love this game? It allows them to actually lose rather than sit there helplessly and watch somebody win. It incorporates all the best of other billiard games and all we really have asked from them is to look like a professional sports team, like most other sports in North America. Larry is not paying them enough to have them go wow...look at all this free money. I will do this in front of the world just to grab a check. They believe in the game and the concept. Earl Strickland played this game four years ago and loved it! His exact words was wow, this is hard...no plumber will ever beat me at this game! He then shook hands with Larry and said, I'll join your league!

What he meant by plumber I'm sure was not meant to disrespect the trade but to say that your going to have to be a professional player to win in this game because of it's structure. The game has changed since that day but it plays the exact same way. It challenges players to really play with all the skills they have learned after all these years.

Larry is not a con man but a genuine lover of billiards. He has owned billiard companies and has made a good living from offering clients an up scale place to play billiards. His main clients were casual eight ball players and business men and not really top players. Larry and I shared the same vision to introduce this game to as many players as possible. He main focus was to start a professional billiard league. Mine was to see him achieve that. I am happy to see him finally get ready to do it and i hope he does not fail. If he does, i will be ready to pick up and try it again. The game will not fail. It's a legitimate game that is based on sound billiard rules. Will he get the support to see this league reality? That is unpredictable. I admire his willingness to go all the way on this and can not be called a failure, no matter what happens in the final chapter of this venture. You never succeed without sacrifice.
 
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This league will not be lacking in star power.....
:wink:



This is a little like saying a Prius will not be lacking a gas engine. To the great unwashed, beside Jeanette Lee, there is no "star power" in pool nowadays. And even hers doesn't have the same wattage as Honey Boo Boo.

Best wishes and all that.

Lou Figueroa
 
This is a little like saying a Prius will not be lacking a gas engine. To the great unwashed, beside Jeanette Lee, there is no "star power" in pool nowadays. And even hers doesn't have the same wattage as Honey Boo Boo.

Best wishes and all that.

Lou Figueroa

"Honey Boo Boo" -- that tickled my funny bone.

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

Pool needs a personality to get off the ground. It is one of the most misunderstood sport games on the face of the earth. There's one school of thought that when somebody mentions pool, the vision of a smoke-filled opium den pops up in their head.

Another school of thought sees emotionless robots going through the motion of running rack after rack after rack.

And it's boring, boring, boring. :boring:

If Bonus Ball can attract the masses, then that's a good thing. I do emphasize that from the get-go, a good payment pattern needs to be exercised. Once somebody gets stiffed or the check doesn't come in the mail, Bonus Ball will quickly become the punching bag of this forum and elsewhere. :eek:

To non-pool people, this is what pool looks like to them. Their attention span won't last more than 5 or 10 seconds before they switch the channel.
 

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What's my point? Once I have someone take the time to play the game, they are sold on it! Not everyone, but a insanely high percentage of pool players love the game. In marketing lingo, this concept is a winner. It will capture it's own market, it will capture new players and it will be fun to watch these new teams battle for the championship.


No, no, no, no. You are hoping the concept is a winner. However, marketing theory has shown that unless there is a large profitable niche to be filled (and with pool halls closing left and right across the country this would be hard to claim for almost anything pool) a market is unlikely to materialize.

You say the game will capture it's own market. But why? Because it's fun, challenging? Trick shots are too. But, most pool players are happy playing 8ball, 9ball, 10ball, 1pocket, 14.1, and in some back waters, banks :-) At most rooms they declare a national holiday when the room owner breaks down and recovers a table. If they ever sprung for a new set of Aramiths to replace the existing 500,000 mile balls in play most players would probably go into shock.

My point is that BB is facing an uphill slog and, so far, I haven't seen anything compelling about it. Even if you shot home teams playing at local home rooms with local fans in the bleachers (instead of Vegas) rooting on the home team, I just don't see this getting much traction.

The majority of pool players would rather be playing than watching. At Vegas every year at the CSI events you get thousands of players who will not pay a small stipend to go watch the pros in the next room in the Open events. They will not be going for multiple PPVs either.

Best wishes and all that.

Lou Figueroa
 
you make a good point

No, no, no, no. You are hoping the concept is a winner. However, marketing theory has shown that unless there is a large profitable niche to be filled (and with pool halls closing left and right across the country this would be hard to claim for almost anything pool) a market is unlikely to materialize.

You say the game will capture it's own market. But why? Because it's fun, challenging? Trick shots are too. But, most pool players are happy playing 8ball, 9ball, 10ball, 1pocket, 14.1, and in some back waters, banks :-) At most rooms they declare a national holiday when the room owner breaks down and recovers a table. If they ever sprung for a new set of Aramiths to replace the existing 500,000 mile balls in play most players would probably go into shock.

My point is that BB is facing an uphill slog and, so far, I haven't seen anything compelling about it. Even if you shot home teams playing at local home rooms with local fans in the bleachers (instead of Vegas) rooting on the home team, I just don't see this getting much traction.

The majority of pool players would rather be playing than watching. At Vegas every year at the CSI events you get thousands of players who will not pay a small stipend to go watch the pros in the next room in the Open events. They will not be going for multiple PPVs either.

Best wishes and all that.

Lou Figueroa

I think you make a very good point about home teams. The teams being named from a city means nothing if the people aren't seeing the talented individuals playing live in their home towns. That is how you get connection, and develop a fan base. Football, baseball, and other sports would not have the same following if they do not have home town crowds.

An example of this is SVB, we feel he is a home town guy because he comes and plays at the local pool hall a few times a year. When I say play, I mean he plays with whoever asks him, money or not, and tournaments. He is loved. When he plays anywhere everybody talks about it, and watches him on streams. This would never happen if he didn't spend the time with us that he does.

Every different pool game is good, and none better than the other. Bonus Ball as a game will not win the hearts of the people. It is the personalities of the players that make the connection with the viewers.

Last comment. I believe the only way to pull this off is to have guys on the road promoting (teaching) the games to all the billiard halls in the United States. The first places that this needs to be done is in the cities you have announced teams in. Without the amateurs interest in the game the game will die a fast death.
 
Excellent point. We will need and want to expand a venue to each franchised city. That is common sense. Year one begins with a small budget playing out of one venue based in Las Vegas. Since it is reported Larry has invested 3 million into this project, it would take approx. 36 million to do it properly. I don't know anybody willing to take that step! I do know 3 million is not a huge number in the sporting world but it could wipe Larry off the face of the earth.

This is what he's put together and he's going with it. I would love to tune into the other professional league right now but there is none. This is not the XFL taking on a giant, the NFL. This is a new concept that is giving us, pool fanatics, something to support and something to entertain us for six months. Lou can predict all he wants but really, what the hell does he know about a professional pool league? Pretty well the same as me! Not a dam thing! I love anyone that points out to me why this league will fail. Actually intelligent suggestions is what has made this game special. Tell me why this game is stupid or why Larry is doomed, I'm all ears. Email me please at barry@playbonusball.com. I will chat with you, skype you and also give you some insight on real things. I will also listen to you. This is what I like. Adult conversation. Take advantage of my offer. If you have not seen this first promotional video, please do so! www.playbonusball.com


Barry Bremner
Vice-president of
World Wide Sport of Billiards
Promoting Bonus Ball
 
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Excellent point. We will need and want to expand a venue to each franchised city. That is common sense. Year one begins with a small budget playing out of one venue based in Las Vegas. Since it is reported Larry has invested 3 million into this project, it would take approx. 36 million to do it properly. I don't know anybody willing to take that step! I do know 3 million is not a huge number in the sporting world but it could wipe Larry off the face of the earth.

This is what he's put together and he's going with it. I would love to tune into the other professional league right now but there is none. This is not the XFL taking on a giant, the NFL. This is a new concept that is giving us, pool fanatics, something to support and something to entertain us for six months. Lou can predict all he wants but really, what the hell does he know about a professional pool league? Pretty well the same as me! Not a dam thing! I love anyone that points out to me why this league will fail. Actually intelligent suggestions is what has made this game special. Tell me why this game is stupid or why Larry is doomed, I'm all ears. Email me please at barry@playbonusball.com. I will chat with you, skype you and also give you some insight on real things. I will also listen to you. This is what I like. Adult conversation. Take advantage of my offer. If you have not seen this first promotional video, please do so! www.playbonusball.com


Barry Bremner
Vice-president of
World Wide Sport of Billiards
Promoting Bonus Ball


Can I play on a bonus ball team or not? Jason Klatts team preferably.
 
Really, ask yourself this question...why would pro players not love this game? It allows them to actually lose rather than sit there helplessly and watch somebody win. It incorporates all the best of other billiard games and all we really have asked from them is to look like a professional sports team, like most other sports in North America. Larry is not paying them enough to have them go wow...look at all this free money. I will do this in front of the world just to grab a check. They believe in the game and the concept. Earl Strickland played this game four years ago and loved it! His exact words was wow, this is hard...no plumber will ever beat me at this game! He then shook hands with Larry and said, I'll join your league!

What he meant by plumber I'm sure was not meant to disrespect the trade but to say that your going to have to be a professional player to win in this game because of it's structure. The game has changed since that day but it plays the exact same way. It challenges players to really play with all the skills they have learned after all these years.

Larry is not a con man but a genuine lover of billiards. He has owned billiard companies and has made a good living from offering clients an up scale place to play billiards. His main clients were casual eight ball players and business men and not really top players. Larry and I shared the same vision to introduce this game to as many players as possible. He main focus was to start a professional billiard league. Mine was to see him achieve that. I am happy to see him finally get ready to do it and i hope he does not fail. If he does, i will be ready to pick up and try it again. The game will not fail. It's a legitimate game that is based on sound billiard rules. Will he get the support to see this league reality? That is unpredictable. I admire his willingness to go all the way on this and can not be called a failure, no matter what happens in the final chapter of this venture. You never succeed without sacrifice.


"Why would pro players not love this game?" Well, as another poster has already pointed out: pro pool players will love anything that provides a paycheck.

I don't think anyone is calling anyone a con man or doubts the sincerity of the effort. I also believe everyone -- including me -- wishes this endeavor the best. But all that doesn't mean everyone has to buy into the idea that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and a sure-fire success.

Lou Figueroa
 
Excellent point. We will need and want to expand a venue to each franchised city. That is common sense. Year one begins with a small budget playing out of one venue based in Las Vegas. Since it is reported Larry has invested 3 million into this project, it would take approx. 36 million to do it properly. I don't know anybody willing to take that step! I do know 3 million is not a huge number in the sporting world but it could wipe Larry off the face of the earth.

This is what he's put together and he's going with it. I would love to tune into the other professional league right now but there is none. This is not the XFL taking on a giant, the NFL. This is a new concept that is giving us, pool fanatics, something to support and something to entertain us for six months. Lou can predict all he wants but really, what the hell does he know about a professional pool league? Pretty well the same as me! Not a dam thing! I love anyone that points out to me why this league will fail. Actually intelligent suggestions is what has made this game special. Tell me why this game is stupid or why Larry is doomed, I'm all ears. Email me please at barry@playbonusball.com. I will chat with you, skype you and also give you some insight on real things. I will also listen to you. This is what I like. Adult conversation. Take advantage of my offer. If you have not seen this first promotional video, please do so! www.playbonusball.com


Barry Bremner
Vice-president of
World Wide Sport of Billiards
Promoting Bonus Ball


An udder question: "...but really, what the hell does he (moi) know about a professional pool league?"

Nothing. I was voicing my opinion as a player and fan of the game for the last 40 years and as someone who has traveled and played in pool rooms and tournaments all over the country and seen the state of the sport. I also know a small amount about public relations and marketing.

No one is saying it's stupid. Just that the league and game as a PPV venture may not (probably) won't work. Just an opinion... carry on.

Lou Figueroa
 
I think people are entitled to opinions on it, we all feel we have some knowledge on what will happen based on past ventures or what we heard from so and so. I just feel this is different and has a better chance then other things I have seen. I do not want to knock promoters and other events because I respect what they have accomplished and built.

I just think as soon as a promoter gets to a certain place with an event they have little to no desire to improve it or do anything more for the pro players because they are making money already. The money is not in pro pool so the focus is on amateur pool and the leagues. Some are making good money in the industry from leagues but even if it can support pro players and a tour they are not bothering with it and they are not obligated to.

I just think for all of us who like watching the pro players and who want to see the make a living then we should support it just like we support others who put money in pro players pockets. I think some want to see the pro players struggle and be down and out, I am not one of those people, I want to see them make a good honest living for their talent. That is one of the biggest reasons why I am happy to be involved because even if it just last this one season then the players still made a living for that time. Real genuine pool fans want to see pool and the players make it. I see many on here are so negative and I guess it comes with the territory since pool has had a good deal of that energy.

I hope it takes off for the pro players sake, as I said before if every person on this forum bought every WPBL item it still would not be enough money to recoup the investment so it gives you something to think about, it needs the fan support world wide and attract the interest of the mass recreational players. Bonus Ball has the players, great video, great venue, great people behind it and hopefully the big thing in any business will be a great marketing team. I do not think organization in pool has done that, a permanent venue and really great marketing is important.

Imagine seeing the NY Giants playing on some high school football field in the middle of nowhere, that is kind of like lots of pool events. You have to have a home base and from what I hear the venue which has been being built for the past couple months since shooting is really nice and pool fans who go to Vegas will enjoy themselves at it.
 
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**Edit: I just read the whole thread, and many of my comments were previously addressed**

I just watched the whole 45 min video. I have a few comments regarding the production. Some may have been addressed earlier, I did not read the whole thread, just a few of the earlier posts. Below the production comments, I wrote my overall impression on the game itself.

My intent is for my comments to be constructive in improving the production quality. They are not meant to be bashing in any way.

1. I had a hard time understanding the rules (Note, I read some of this thread with some of the rules scattered about a few days before watching the video). First I thought each player had a certain color. Then I knew that wasn't it. It wasn't till about 30 minute in that I got it, when one of the announcers repeated that you shoot in a sequence. Perhaps repeating the general rules more often would help, especially in early episodes. After I watched the game, I went to the site to read the rules. The PDF rules download dog slow. I only read the first overview 100 thus far, but its rules did not match what I saw (or I still don't understand the rules). Please review this material and coordinate it.

2. The camera work was ok, but I feel should be much better. Some of the shots that Jason went for were very extreme angle shots, and the scene cut away right before the ball dropped (or missed). I couldn't tell if the ball fell or not.

3. The camera work was not framed with the final product in mind. The score board at the bottom of the screen covered up a large portion of the table.

4. During the interviews, the camera was not wide enough. When one person was talking, half of the other person was in the shot. If two people are talking to each other, they should both be in the shot, not one and one half.

5. I couldn't tell what player had what pocket. Even after I understood that the each player had 2 corners and the opposite side. The gold and silver colors of the pockets do not contrast enough. They should be like yellow and blue. The metal pocket castings should be removed from the table, powder coated these colors, and reinstalled. The tiny stars just do not cut it. And perhaps the player's jersey should be the same color as their pockets.

6. Regarding my comments, the production quality of this should be held to a very high standard, not the typical pool stream single camera standard.

7. The show itself seemed engaging and interesting. The clock was huge. I was hoping Archer would run out of time at the end to see what would happen.

8. I'm confused about the watching method. I sort of assumed this would all be free to watch the entire season, to try to expand pool to the masses. Some posts in this thread said its going to be ppv?

9. I thought the refs, players, announcers, and even the rack girls all were very well trained in the rules, and had practiced the game. There was not a single on camera issue with the rules, by any member. That lent a lot of professionalism to the set.

I did enjoy the show, and hope to see it grow.
Best of luck.
 
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I just watched the whole 45 min video. I have a few comments regarding the production. Some may have been addressed earlier, I did not read the whole thread, just a few of the earlier posts. Below the production comments, I wrote my overall impression on the game itself.

My intent is for my comments to be constructive in improving the production quality. They are not meant to be bashing in any way.

1. I had a hard time understanding the rules (Note, I read some of this thread with some of the rules scattered about a few days before watching the video). First I thought each player had a certain color. Then I knew that wasn't it. It wasn't till about 30 minute in that I got it, when one of the announcers repeated that you shoot in a sequence. Perhaps repeating the general rules more often would help, especially in early episodes. After I watched the game, I went to the site to read the rules. The PDF rules download dog slow. I only read the first overview 100 thus far, but its rules did not match what I saw (or I still don't understand the rules). Please review this material and coordinate it.

2. The camera work was ok, but I feel should be much better. Some of the shots that Jason went for were very extreme angle shots, and the scene cut away right before the ball dropped (or missed). I couldn't tell if the ball fell or not.

3. The camera work was not framed with the final product in mind. The score board at the bottom of the screen covered up a large portion of the table.

4. During the interviews, the camera was not wide enough. When one person was talking, half of the other person was in the shot. If two people are talking to each other, they should both be in the shot, not one and one half.

5. I couldn't tell what player had what pocket. Even after I understood that the each player had 2 corners and the opposite side. The gold and silver colors of the pockets do not contrast enough. They should be like yellow and blue. The metal pocket castings should be removed from the table, powder coated these colors, and reinstalled. The tiny stars just do not cut it. And perhaps the player's jersey should be the same color as their pockets.

6. Regarding my comments, the production quality of this should be held to a very high standard, not the typical pool stream single camera standard.

7. The show itself seemed engaging and interesting. The clock was huge. I was hoping Archer would run out of time at the end to see what would happen.

8. I'm confused about the watching method. I sort of assumed this would all be free to watch the entire season, to try to expand pool to the masses. Some posts in this thread said its going to be ppv?

9. I thought the refs, players, announcers, and even the rack girls all were very well trained in the rules, and had practiced the game. There was not a single on camera issue with the rules, by any member. That lent a lot of professionalism to the set.

I did enjoy the show, and hope to see it grow.
Best of luck.
Nick, I appreciate you taking the time to make some points about what you saw. Here is the full list of rules, make sure to check it out. http://www.playbonusball.com/newrules.html

The rules are actually really simple, teams have 2 corners and the opposite side pocket to score in. You shoot balls in sequence, purple is 1 point, orange is 2 and the black bonus ball is 3. The first person to get to 30 points wins the game, other than that there are some simple small rules you will pick up as you watch but if you know these basics then you can enjoy watching the game.

The pocket coverings will be color coordinated so you can see better who has what pocket also, we made due at the moment using the stars but the covers will be painted and it will be mentioned which team has what pockets. If you are actually watching the match and listening to the commentary it is easy to figure out who has what pockets and what is going on along with the color they are shooting as the graphic changes color where the player or teams name is, the only thing confusing is its new. It would be like showing someone snooker for the first time and them figuring out the sequence and ball point values.

I was one of the cameraman working on it and we framed it obviously without knowing what graphics would be where. Perhaps a solution would be to only show the graphics on the full table stationary shot and jib shot or frame lower when shooting keeping the graphics in mind, good point made. I did not notice it too much and you were the first to speak on it in this thread, everyone else loved the video quality and production. I am sure this will be kept in mind, I think the constructive criticism is good and we also understand we cannot please everyone but what makes sense will be done.

Personally I do not think any other pool production has been of better quality besides Matchroom when it comes to the angles, camera work, editing and setup. This is not even the high quality version you are watching, it is a low res version using older equipment. I think when people see what we are doing during the season they will be very impressed especially those who are impressed by this. I would not compare the stuff we shot to any live streams out there at all, especially the single camera stuff shot in poolrooms, haha.

P.S. Another thing I know is there will be free streams and PPV streams too.
 
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