Bonus Ball Schedule: Right or Wrong

[Palmerfan]

Chicken Sh*t move

Bonus Ball has created their schedule to accommodate players to attend the Ultimate 10-Ball Champinoship in Tunica on June16-20, 2013. On June 21-29, the very next week, the Southern Classic tournament will commence at the very same venue, same hotel.

Bonus Ball has nothing scheduled during the time Ultimate 10-Ball Championship is happening, allowing the players to attend, but Bonus Ball has a full schedule for Greg Sullivan's Southern Classic tournament.

Since Bonus Ball has had numerous cancellations and starts with their begin date and Southern Classic was scheduled long beore Bonus Ball came into existence, do you think this is right or wrong for Bonus Ball to have their event simultaneously with the Southern Classic?

I feel Bonus Ball should have scheduled around already-existing major events in this American fractured industry, not making players pick and choose, and especially not harming valued American promoters who have been in this racket supporting pool players from around the world for decades.

There is another school of thought that Bonus Ball should do what's good for Bonus Ball as far as the schedule.

I'm sure by now, most regular readers on this forum now how I have voted. :grin:

This is a blind poll, so feel free to vote anonymously. That includes all your lurkers out there too! :smile:

I just would like to get a sense of how the pool community feels. We have a broad representation of pool peeps on this forum. Please take the time to cast your vote. Thank you in advance!

Although I can't stand the game of BB..I liked the fact that the players were getting steady paychecks..but I think their scheduling was a sh*tty thing to do..making players choose between events planned well in advance, and events that have supported them for years (and considered big "Annual" events. Whether it was intentional or not I don't know for sure but either way it was a big F.U. to the promoters of other events with a long history of putting cash in players pockets and who couldn't reschedule their events. I believe Mark G. even offered the 13k that BB said they would lose..so that he could make sure to get the Pro's for his events in July since BB players would be in Vegas anyway...and got no answer back, so it does appear that the BB guys want to throw a little weight around.

 

[Hungarian]

So what! Grow up!

Great post JAM.

You are the greatest

 

[Powerlifter]

It doesn't matter to me after seeing pool go backwards for years, If a group from Mars would come to planet earth and try something new that may help American pool. It would be good if all of the current promoters and BB could work together in the future.

I am not going to become a hater because a group from Canada or anywhere else comes on the scene with the dream and goal to help Pro Pool become mainstream. I know all of the people involved except the BB group.

I do not wish anything bad on Mark or Greg and never will, I have supported their events for years and will continue to. If these groups in the future could sit down and put their heads together, With all of their knowledge and ideas, the sky is the limit. I don't like the fact that BBs scheduling has conflicted with Tunica. That may or may not could have been avoided. That is beyond the control of any of the forum readers.

So i do enjoy BB and i will continue to wish them luck, And i would also like to wish luck to Greg and Mark with their events. I will not come on here and root agains't a new group trying to promote Pro Pool, And anyone who does, you have chosen sides, And i guess that is your choice. I think if Larry, Greg, and Mark could sit down and talk about the future of pool. Even greater ideas are possible.
Good Luck to all, Gary Lutman

This is kind of how I see things as well. We've seen some of the same people who obviously are big supporters of pool frown upon the scheduling of bonus ball,because it interferes with other tourneys. Would these same people frown upon the same "other tournaments" if bonus ball was scheduled before they were? Doubtful at best. What is wrong with having choices? Nobody is forcing these players to play bonus ball. If they feel bonus ball is the better option for them atm,then that's not BB's fault. If anything competition forces the other guys to step up. If they fail to do so,once again,not BB's fault.

Good people get squashed in business everyday. Change things so the players want to play in their tournaments more then they do BB. It is kind of disheartening to see some of the same supporters of pool want to see something new fail only to go back to the same old same. All these years I've read posts by some of the same people,who are so negative (regarding BB),about how all they want to see is pool grow. Now all I see are the same people saying they still wanna see pool grow,but just in a certain way. It sounds a lot more political,then I ever believed it was.

I sincerely hope BB grows and we can see how some of these other promoters handle it. I hope to see the same people complain about the other tourneys failing to plan their ideas around BB. That's no different right?

Inb4 "well this guy is my friend so that's the difference". Money doesn't care about friends.

 

[JAM]

This is kind of how I see things as well. We've seen some of the same people who obviously are big supporters of pool frown upon the scheduling of bonus ball,because it interferes with other tourneys. Would these same people frown upon the same "other tournaments" if bonus ball was scheduled before they were? Doubtful at best. What is wrong with having choices? Nobody is forcing these players to play bonus ball. If they feel bonus ball is the better option for them atm,then that's not BB's fault. If anything competition forces the other guys to step up. If they fail to do so,once again,not BB's fault.

Good people get squashed in business everyday. Change things so the players want to play in their tournaments more then they do BB. It is kind of disheartening to see some of the same supporters of pool want to see something new fail only to go back to the same old same. All these years I've read posts by some of the same people,who are so negative (regarding BB),about how all they want to see is pool grow. Now all I see are the same people saying they still wanna see pool grow,but just in a certain way. It sounds a lot more political,then I ever believed it was.

I sincerely hope BB grows and we can see how some of these other promoters handle it. I hope to see the same people complain about the other tourneys failing to plan their ideas around BB. That's no different right?

Inb4 "well this guy is my friend so that's the difference". Money doesn't care about friends.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the pool tournament trail, but most tournament promoters do schedule their events so as *not* to interfere with others. It's always been that way that I can remember.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

The WPBL code of conduct.....

WPBL Personal Conduct Policy
All WPBL players and staff are required to avoid all conduct that would be deemed detrimental to the integrity of the league and the image it represents. Therefore certain behaviors inside and outside of the WPBL studios will not be tolerated and will result in various forms of discipline.
- Slandering of the league, the game of bonus ball, or anything directly related to either

- Derogatory comments or gestures towards any player, official, staff or audience member of the WPBL including but not limited to homophobic, racial or sexist in origin made by any means including social media

- Damage or theft of any property of the WPBL

- Showing up late or missing a match

- Assaulting any player, official or fan

- Cheating

- Gambling on any WPBL match

- Any intentional decrease in performance
The preceding will be dealt with by various forms of discipline based on a league committee ruling:
1. Verbal Warning
2. Written Warning
3. Monetary fine
4. League Suspension
5. League Expulsion


This document was given to all the players along with their contracts back in November. We have an appointed ruling committee that will meet on matters like last nights. It consists of myself, Larry Chiborak, Nathan Dumoulin, Johnny Archer (voted by players) and Thorsten Hohmann (voted by players).

We will have a decision and public announcement soon.

Quoted this little chestnut from the other thread.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

...I hope the players that are there don't lose all their income in Vegas. That's a tough town for pool players.

What an outdated statement, Jam. Today's pool player is a working stiff earning a paycheck. They certainly don't like to gamble.

:grin-square:

 

[watchez]

You fight for your point blindly with no look at it from the players perspective or bonus ball's perspective. It's a big outlay for the players and the league will suffer financial losses but you don't give a damn about that cause of poor Greg. Greg has never been woe is me and never will be and I highly doubt he needs you putting that out there on his behalf....you got Greg looking BAD out here right now. Soooo shaky baby!!!!

Please explain the financial losses to the Bonus Ball League by shutting down for 2 weeks.

Close down Walmart for 2 weeks - yes there are financial losses. Close down McDonald's, there are financial issues. Close down your favorite restaurant for 2 weeks, there are financial issues.

But with Bonus Ball - they are not making anything. 12 people buying tickets? They haven't shown / sold a PPV yet and remember it has been clearly stated that they don't really care about the PPV and PPV is not a part of their business plan.

So again, what are the financial issues? Yes they are paying rent but I would assume after putting 1.5 million into a facility they have a 5 year lease with a 5 year option, minimum. So what is 2 weeks over the course of 10 years? Absolutely nothing. They are not making money off of the facility. As far as anyone has been told, their business plan is to put together a hard copy - product of an entire season.

You know what would be a good idea - contact Greg at Diamond and Mark G. Tell them you are going to put the breaks in so the players can support and play in and enjoy the events that have supported them for years. Let the players wear their hockey jerseys while they play their matches to get some free promotion. Ask Greg and Mark if they can have a booth at each event for the Bonus Ball Pros, Nathan, Lenny, Larry to hang out in and tell a large number of pool fans how great Bonus Ball is and will become.

 

[JAM]

Please explain the financial losses to the Bonus Ball League by shutting down for 2 weeks.

Close down Walmart for 2 weeks - yes there are financial losses. Close down McDonald's, there are financial issues. Close down your favorite restaurant for 2 weeks, there are financial issues.

But with Bonus Ball - they are not making anything. 12 people buying tickets? They haven't shown / sold a PPV yet and remember it has been clearly stated that they don't really care about the PPV and PPV is not a part of their business plan.

So again, what are the financial issues? Yes they are paying rent but I would assume after putting 1.5 million into a facility they have a 5 year lease with a 5 year option, minimum. So what is 2 weeks over the course of 10 years? Absolutely nothing. They are not making money off of the facility. As far as anyone has been told, their business plan is to put together a hard copy - product of an entire season.

You know what would be a good idea - contact Greg at Diamond and Mark G. Tell them you are going to put the breaks in so the players can support and play in and enjoy the events that have supported them for years. Let the players wear their hockey jerseys while they play their matches to get some free promotion. Ask Greg and Mark if they can have a booth at each event for the Bonus Ball Pros, Nathan, Lenny, Larry to hang out in and tell a large number of pool fans how great Bonus Ball is and will become.

In the words of Fatboy, you really are "triple smart," Watchez!

 

[Palmerfan]

Please explain the financial losses to the Bonus Ball League by shutting down for 2 weeks.

Close down Walmart for 2 weeks - yes there are financial losses. Close down McDonald's, there are financial issues. Close down your favorite restaurant for 2 weeks, there are financial issues.

But with Bonus Ball - they are not making anything. 12 people buying tickets? They haven't shown / sold a PPV yet and remember it has been clearly stated that they don't really care about the PPV and PPV is not a part of their business plan.

So again, what are the financial issues? Yes they are paying rent but I would assume after putting 1.5 million into a facility they have a 5 year lease with a 5 year option, minimum. So what is 2 weeks over the course of 10 years? Absolutely nothing. They are not making money off of the facility. As far as anyone has been told, their business plan is to put together a hard copy - product of an entire season.

You know what would be a good idea - contact Greg at Diamond and Mark G. Tell them you are going to put the breaks in so the players can support and play in and enjoy the events that have supported them for years. Let the players wear their hockey jerseys while they play their matches to get some free promotion. Ask Greg and Mark if they can have a booth at each event for the Bonus Ball Pros, Nathan, Lenny, Larry to hang out in and tell a large number of pool fans how great Bonus Ball is and will become.

Best post on this thread by far.

 

[Powerlifter]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the pool tournament trail, but most tournament promoters do schedule their events so as *not* to interfere with others. It's always been that way that I can remember.

You might like this statement. Bonus ball isn't pool. I don't care for the game personally but I like people having options. The same old same hasn't worked for a long time. There needed to be a change.

 

[JAM]

You might like this statement. Bonus ball isn't pool. I don't care for the game personally but I like people having options. The same old same hasn't worked for a long time. There needed to be a change.

Change is good, and I welcome change. In pool, it's not like one can say, "Jump on in. The water's fine."

I don't know how long you've been in the pool racket, but I've seen quite a few changes occur since the '70s at least. The IPT was probably the biggest that I personally got to experience. They got it on TV. The Versus channel is the only channel that would air the IPT matches at that time. There were millions of dollars poured into the IPT. Believe it or not, they even contacted a Hollywood agent group to give advice to the IPT players. There was a green room at the events, the whole 9 yards. Even with all of this, millions of dollars invested, it just didn't catch on like all of us hoped.

When the IPT closed its doors, some vendors have reported they were never paid. Checks bounced, though I think they were made good a year later through a payment system. Many folks were upset about the IPT's sudden burst onto the pool scene, except those of us who were riding that IPT train.

The players in Vegas are riding that Bonus Ball train. Of course, they're going to say, "I like playing with orange and purple balls," and they get paid 900 bucks and some change a week to say it.

Bonus Ball has created division, and it's not a good change at this juncture. I'll pull this thread up a year from now, if I'm still alive, and we'll see how we all feel then.

 

[Palmerfan]

Change

You might like this statement. Bonus ball isn't pool. I don't care for the game personally but I like people having options. The same old same hasn't worked for a long time. There needed to be a change.

I like people having options as well and change is fine and is certainly welcome in our sport..but you don't have to schedule BB events during the same time as other long standing respected events that were scheduled well ahead of BB's schedule with promoters going out of pocket bigtime to put $ in the pockets of the pro's...IMO its a sh*tty move that was purposely done and shows a lack of respect to people who have given to this game for many years. BB's scheduling was classless..but I don't see it being a problem for too much longer...

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Please explain the financial losses to the Bonus Ball League by shutting down for 2 weeks.

Close down Walmart for 2 weeks - yes there are financial losses. Close down McDonald's, there are financial issues. Close down your favorite restaurant for 2 weeks, there are financial issues.

But with Bonus Ball - they are not making anything. 12 people buying tickets? They haven't shown / sold a PPV yet and remember it has been clearly stated that they don't really care about the PPV and PPV is not a part of their business plan.

So again, what are the financial issues? Yes they are paying rent but I would assume after putting 1.5 million into a facility they have a 5 year lease with a 5 year option, minimum. So what is 2 weeks over the course of 10 years? Absolutely nothing. They are not making money off of the facility. As far as anyone has been told, their business plan is to put together a hard copy - product of an entire season.

You know what would be a good idea - contact Greg at Diamond and Mark G. Tell them you are going to put the breaks in so the players can support and play in and enjoy the events that have supported them for years. Let the players wear their hockey jerseys while they play their matches to get some free promotion. Ask Greg and Mark if they can have a booth at each event for the Bonus Ball Pros, Nathan, Lenny, Larry to hang out in and tell a large number of pool fans how great Bonus Ball is and will become.

Agree with all this, but collared shirts please. :wink:

 

[Palmerfan]

This is how

Once again. The field at the southern classic will be strong. Both attendance and stream viewings will be higher than bonus ball.

So how is this hurting Greg?

Its hurting Greg because if there was no BB match at all during that week, he would have all the players playing in his tournament instead of some...which leads to more attendance which leads to more revenue in every aspect. And BB could have held their matchup the following week with no loss as they admit they don't make money off PPV nor do they want to.

Bottom line no matter what BB wants to be..stepping on the toes of other more respected promoters was the wrong play, but again BB is headed somewhere where it wont interfere with anything pretty soon. I've never seen so many empty seats in an arena where that many pro's are playing..there are 3x as many fans at a Joss Tour or Predator Tour event that don't have those top level pro's every week. I was at a league match the other day in Brooklyn between an A player and a C player that had double the amount of people watching..and it was much more exciting. BB is becoming embarrassing.

 

[meximan2469]

Dave,
I like your responses that seem to be very well explained. I find the item in blue to have gaps in understanding. You state all players are allowed to play in any events they wish. Can you peel back the onion one layer and let us know if there are penalties other than a forfeit if a team doesn't make the schedule? I find it hard to believe that Daz, Stevie, and Jayson of Philadelphia would not want to attend the Southern since they were there for the 10 ball anyway. In another post, you stated Stevie was coming back to Vegas for BB to play with the 2 alternates.

Just seems hard to believe he would elect to miss the Southern on his own. Could happen, just seems hard to believe.

And you state the players all have free reign. What would happen if you did have schedule issues because players all attended another event? Double headers on other weekends? A shortened schedule? Or a lengthened schedule?

Thank you for your response. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

1. The penalty for a forfeit other than points in the standings is the obvious monetary loss of not playing a match.

2. Stevie has told me personally that he is tired of chasing tournaments and is fine with just taking the guaranteed money. (I have heard the same from many of the players)

3. The Philadelphia team for that week has since changed however. Darren and Brandon have decided to play their WPBL matches.Darren is in love with this game and the whole team aspect he is even paying to fly Billy Thorpe in to Vegas still to give him a chance to practice with the team.

4. We have already had a couple of issues where we changed the schedule (within the days) to accommodate better for the players involved. This week we have 3 Saturday matches and only one on Sunday so that we can allow sufficient travel time for the players to get to Tunica. The following week we are not playing a Thursday match and are playing 3 on Saturday again to allow players time to return. We also made a scheduling change during the CSI events in July so that every team could play at least one of the 3 professional events.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[Black-Balled]

Darren is in love with this game and the whole team aspect he is even paying to fly Billy Thorpe in to Vegas still

Hope this helps.

Dave

thats gross. I never knew Daz had such a morbid sense of mascot humor.

 

[JAM]

Bonus Ball changes schedule around to accommodate Ultimate and Mark Griffin and does nothing for Greg Sullivan. Nice deal! :angry::angry::angry:

 

[Diamond69]

Thank you for your response. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

1. The penalty for a forfeit other than points in the standings is the obvious monetary loss of not playing a match.

2. Stevie has told me personally that he is tired of chasing tournaments and is fine with just taking the guaranteed money. (I have heard the same from many of the players)

3. The Philadelphia team for that week has since changed however. Darren and Brandon have decided to play their WPBL matches.Darren is in love with this game and the whole team aspect he is even paying to fly Billy Thorpe in to Vegas still to give him a chance to practice with the team.

4. We have already had a couple of issues where we changed the schedule (within the days) to accommodate better for the players involved. This week we have 3 Saturday matches and only one on Sunday so that we can allow sufficient travel time for the players to get to Tunica. The following week we are not playing a Thursday match and are playing 3 on Saturday again to allow players time to return. We also made a scheduling change during the CSI events in July so that every team could play at least one of the 3 professional events.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Thanks Dave. It looks like you have made some scheduling changes to accommodate where possible. Most people should respect that. Although Stevie's comment to you may have been to help out the team more than "chasing a tournament" since he would already be in the town since he's signed up for the Ultimate 10 ball.
I'm also shocked about Daz. I would think he'd be a favorite at the Southern. Even though he loves the game of BB, there's a lot of cash to be won at the Southern.

Since players are not coming on here, it is nice to hear some of it, even second hand, on how they are feeling. I sent greenie your way for your professional responses!

 

[Diamond69]

Bonus Ball changes schedule around to accommodate Ultimate and Mark Griffin and does nothing for Greg Sullivan. Nice deal! :angry::angry::angry:

Jam,
I think you can see I'm on your side on the scheduling issue. Did I misread Dave's response? It looks like they made some minor scheduling changes over the next couple weeks to try to accommodate some players. That is for Greg's event (Southern Classic), isn't it? I see it isn't completely shut down for the 10 day event, but a little scheduling changes is probably helping some of the players to attend.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

I have been in the pool racket.

Change is good, and I welcome change. In pool, it's not like one can say, "Jump on in. The water's fine."

I don't know how long you've been in the pool racket, but I've seen quite a few changes occur since the '70s at least. The IPT was probably the biggest that I personally got to experience. They got it on TV. The Versus channel is the only channel that would air the IPT matches at that time. There were millions of dollars poured into the IPT. Believe it or not, they even contacted a Hollywood agent group to give advice to the IPT players. There was a green room at the events, the whole 9 yards. Even with all of this, millions of dollars invested, it just didn't catch on like all of us hoped.

When the IPT closed its doors, some vendors have reported they were never paid. Checks bounced, though I think they were made good a year later through a payment system. Many folks were upset about the IPT's sudden burst onto the pool scene, except those of us who were riding that IPT train.

The players in Vegas are riding that Bonus Ball train. Of course, they're going to say, "I like playing with orange and purple balls," and they get paid 900 bucks and some change a week to say it.

Bonus Ball has created division, and it's not a good change at this juncture. I'll pull this thread up a year from now, if I'm still alive, and we'll see how we all feel then.

I have been in the pool racket, And BB is the best opportunity for a real Pro Tour , Albeit, a team tour. Which in fact, I think , has been a long time coming. There has been no Pro Tour in years. Only a very small % of players can make a profit in any event.
Pool has needed something new for Decades! I have played and gambled all over the country, Because if you don't gamble being a pool player, Good luck with paying your expenses. I think it is an opportunity. Pro Pool has had very few of these.
How can you come on here and not wish the best for the new game? So far the only complaints I have heard are on this forum. I know a lot of BB players personaly. I have played agains't them in tournaments and for the cash.
On facebook all i read about is positive from the players. AZ forums is where this changes, So many so called pool lovers wanting a new venture to fail. What a laugh you are. Pool has had 0 future since i can remember.
As far as my credentials, I played Keith twice in Phoenix in the 1980's and busted him both times. As Keiths wife how can you not wish the best for pool ? This is not to late to affect Keith, He may be invited to be on a team, I know i am getting a little fired up over BB.
What has happened where BB has scheduled on top of Tunica. I , along with a lot of forum members wish this wouldn't have happened, It did and we have no control over this. I know it is none of my business. I enjoy BB and i plan on purchasing some of the matchups.
You can even wager a little on these, I will give everyone a free tip. Just 1. I like the teams with a little 1 Pocket knowledge. That's it. Good Luck, To all pool events.
Gary Lutman