Break Speed

subdude1974

subdude1974

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ironic that someone started a thread about the iPhone app. A buddy of mine showed it to me tonight and we checked it out. But I got to thinking what is a powerful break speed? Mine came in between 23 and 24.7mph(max). Didnt know if that is good or bad and where I can pick up some more speed. My break has always been my nemesis. Thanks in advance.
 
Generally speaking, here's what I've found from much testing with Break Speed with amateur and pro players.

The typical amateur breaks at around 17MPH. A serious amateur that practices their breaks a bit will often hit around 21-22MPH. Breaking at 24MPH is pretty good. Getting past 24MPH requires that you study the mechanics of the break shot seriously and practice a lot in order to improve body position, speed and timing.

Pros can usually get in the high 20's, but rarely do so in tournament play because it is very difficult to maintain control with such power.

A pro that is simply going for a full-power break (ignoring control completely) will sometimes hit 30.

Real-world examples:

I instigated a bit of competative fun between Corey Deuel and John Schmidt at the 2010 US Open 10-ball Championships with Break Speed. John was hitting 24 (full-out) and Corey broke through the 30MPH barrier after a few tries (and a few miss-cues.)

Last night, when we were filming the 2010 US Open 10-Ball in Vegas, I was timing Roberto Gomez at 28.2MPH with considerable consistency (only deviating as much as 0.2MPH from break to break.) His next match, he was taking a bit of power off his break (presumably to get more control) and was breaking in the 27's. This is VERY rare for tournament play, and shows how great of a breaker he is.

Break Speed can capture breaks from recorded matches (this is a challenge for the software, so the commentator must not be talking over the break) - and I timed Bustamante at 26.2 with great consistency.

One of guys that works for OB Cues (Steve Owens, a local amateur) claims he can break 30MPH after he warms up. In fact, his typical break during a match is 28MPH, so I'm willing to bet he can. In fact, I think he can hit 32. I will get this on film and maybe include some instruction to put on our site. Steve's a great guy and has an absolutely incredible break!

I was able to get my break from 17MPH into the 24's within a week. I did this while I was writing Break Speed, and thought I might as well work on my break while testing the software. :) I did this by using Break Speed to tell me what made a difference (even if only a 1/2 MPH improvement) and following the tips in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

That video is by far the best video I've seen on break instruction - it covers all the body mechanics and gives explanations for them. If you watch the power breakers, they all incorporate the things in this video.
 
subdude1974 said:
Ironic that someone started a thread about the iPhone app. A buddy of mine showed it to me tonight and we checked it out. But I got to thinking what is a powerful break speed? Mine came in between 23 and 24.7mph(max). Didnt know if that is good or bad and where I can pick up some more speed. My break has always been my nemesis. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Your break could be your nemisis because you're breaking too hard and aren't controlling the cue ball. I was messing with this the other night too and got into the 24's but I had zero control. Watching it over several games I was breaking best in the 19's. Just a thought.
MULLY
 
Neither Van Corteza or Li Lo Wen were breaking over 21-22 mph, and they were, for the most part, getting great controlled breaks, spreading the rack and making balls. The cue, and perfect timing, is more responsible for a good break...than trying to launch your body into the break, and wallop the balls at 27+ mph...imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Neither Van Corteza or Li Lo Wen were breaking over 21-22 mph, and they were, for the most part, getting great controlled breaks, spreading the rack and making balls. The cue, and perfect timing, is more responsible for a good break...than trying to launch your body into the break, and wallop the balls at 27+ mph...imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Agreed 100% Scott. Nothing concerning this app but some of my best breaks have been when I wasn't trying to pound them but instead hit them with a nice controlled stroke and smacking the head ball about as full as I could.
MULLY
 
bad app!

You do realize that most people's break speed is going to go down five to ten miles an hour now that they can measure the speed instead of just estimating it or listening to the sound on the break, don't you? :D :D :D

Hu


pnettle said:
Generally speaking, here's what I've found from much testing with Break Speed with amateur and pro players.

The typical amateur breaks at around 17MPH. A serious amateur that practices their breaks a bit will often hit around 21-22MPH. Breaking at 24MPH is pretty good. Getting past 24MPH requires that you study the mechanics of the break shot seriously and practice a lot in order to improve body position, speed and timing.

Pros can usually get in the high 20's, but rarely do so in tournament play because it is very difficult to maintain control with such power.

A pro that is simply going for a full-power break (ignoring control completely) will sometimes hit 30.

Real-world examples:

I instigated a bit of competative fun between Corey Deuel and John Schmidt at the 2010 US Open 10-ball Championships with Break Speed. John was hitting 24 (full-out) and Corey broke through the 30MPH barrier after a few tries (and a few miss-cues.)

Last night, when we were filming the 2010 US Open 10-Ball in Vegas, I was timing Roberto Gomez at 28.2MPH with considerable consistency (only deviating as much as 0.2MPH from break to break.) His next match, he was taking a bit of power off his break (presumably to get more control) and was breaking in the 27's. This is VERY rare for tournament play, and shows how great of a breaker he is.

Break Speed can capture breaks from recorded matches (this is a challenge for the software, so the commentator must not be talking over the break) - and I timed Bustamante at 26.2 with great consistency.

One of guys that works for OB Cues (Steve Owens, a local amateur) claims he can break 30MPH after he warms up. In fact, his typical break during a match is 28MPH, so I'm willing to bet he can. In fact, I think he can hit 32. I will get this on film and maybe include some instruction to put on our site. Steve's a great guy and has an absolutely incredible break!

I was able to get my break from 17MPH into the 24's within a week. I did this while I was writing Break Speed, and thought I might as well work on my break while testing the software. :) I did this by using Break Speed to tell me what made a difference (even if only a 1/2 MPH improvement) and following the tips in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

That video is by far the best video I've seen on break instruction - it covers all the body mechanics and gives explanations for them. If you watch the power breakers, they all incorporate the things in this video.
Click to expand...
 
I was checking SVB's breaks during the tournament this week and he was at 23.5 - 24 mph with control about 95% of the time.
 
I am sure that there is a max break speed according to some theory. What old that be?

This would be a good competition at the tournaments. A table set up with a small entry to break a rack of 15 balls with 3 attempts or so and take the highest speed with a legal break of not scratching or jumping the CB off the table.

Could also have sub categories for most balls made. Most balls in the kitchen. Bonus pocket for making a certain ball in it. Mystery pocket such as a certain ball made in a certain pocket that is revealed at the end of the tournament. Most balls in one pocket. A spot on the table that is worth a certain amount if a certain ball lands on it. SIde bets of over and under that is amount of balls on the left side of table compared to those on the right and ETC. Could be a good table to be sponsored by a rack supplier and also break cues.
 
I'd like one of you to tell the us how fast Tom Cruise's break speed was when the were saying he was smashing the rack in the movie, if it's possible.
 
TX Poolnut said:
I'd like one of you to tell the us how fast Tom Cruise's break speed was when the were saying he was smashing the rack in the movie, if it's possible.
Click to expand...

I doubt this would be accurate. I work in the entertainment industry, and we fake EVERYTHING. Most movies use very little of the actual on-set sound.
 
pnettle said:
I doubt this would be accurate. I work in the entertainment industry, and we fake EVERYTHING. Most movies use very little of the actual on-set sound.
Click to expand...

My record is 25.18 after about 10 breaks, breaking between 24-20 all the time.

PD: wow, are you the director of Gearbox? the ones who made Opposing Force? impresive! i am a computer engineer and I am doing what i expect to be the best pool game at the moment hehehe... i don´t want to change the thread topic, but maybe I will create another thread and post some screenshots...
 
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I had my break clocked at 21mph and that was with a little popping of the CB and a perfect squat. I'm actually a little proud of it because I was scared that I would break more like 17/18mph :) Is it true the Pro average is 23/24mph?
 
{scoffing rant mode=on}
One does not measure precision in MPH
{scoffing rant mode=off}

The break is a lot more about precision than about power. So why is it that we spend so much time talking about MPH (and implying power) when it is the minute precisioin of the contact point tht is responsible for potting a ball on the break.
 
Players with a lot of natural rhythm & skill can put an incredible amount of speed on the CB. The top 10 local players around here would break in the high 20's. 26-28 being the most common. A very special few could top 30.

I got a gun out & clocked Jesse Bowman & I one day. I was in the 24-25 range (right where I thought I would be), but Jesse cracked 30 after only a few tries...he just needed to loosen up his muscles...he kept getting faster & faster. He was satisfied with 30 & quit. I'd love to know how high we could have gone.

BTW, the difference between 25 and 30 is INCREDIBLE. It might only be a 20% difference from a math perspective, but it just sounds different and the balls EXPLODE.

BTW, some extraordinary people can do 30 under control too. Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDUfFDByvOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O21AsO3g9Ms
 
MitchAlsup said:
{scoffing rant mode=on}
One does not measure precision in MPH
{scoffing rant mode=off}

The break is a lot more about precision than about power. So why is it that we spend so much time talking about MPH (and implying power) when it is the minute precisioin of the contact point tht is responsible for potting a ball on the break.
Click to expand...
Let me guess: you find drag racing, nascar, F1, & bonneville complete wastes of energy, right? Are you the guy I see every day doing the exact speed limit in his prius...in the passing lane? Why do they honk at me, I'm doing the limit & no one should ever have the need to drive precisely 1 mph over. :confused:
 
MitchAlsup said:
{scoffing rant mode=on}
One does not measure precision in MPH
{scoffing rant mode=off}

The break is a lot more about precision than about power. So why is it that we spend so much time talking about MPH (and implying power) when it is the minute precision of the contact point that is responsible for potting a ball on the break.
Click to expand...

Back in February, I did some math to study accuracy vs. power in the break shot. My findings were interesting, but not too surprising.

The basic conclusion is this: If you hit your break shot with only 1% of error (i.e., 1% off from a dead-perfect hit) you lose 1.57% energy. So accuracy is about 1-and-a-half times more important than power, when it comes to energy transfer.

So your point is valid, but we are humans and not calculators, so let me tell you why power is (for most of us) still very important.

Let's say you are breaking at 20MPH and you are able to get to 21MPH, that's a 5% increase in energy sent toward the rack. If you can do this without increasing your error by more than about 2%, this is a net win. In other words, can you increase your speed by 1MPH without doubling the amount of error on delivery? If so, it's a net win.

At some point, you'll cross a threshold where the extra power increase comes with an overwhelming amount of error and you lose energy transfer to the rack. But if you practice your break with the kinds of mechanics and timing that will get you a great break speed, then you can work on improving your accuracy at those higher speeds and pushing that threshold out further.

Case in point: Compare your "match break" (not your most powerful, but the break you'll use in a match) to Roberto Gomez's match break. He was hitting the balls at about 28MPH in the US 10-ball Open. That's a better break (power/accuracy) than most of ours. We will never have a break that good unless we practice it, which includes practicing more power.
 
For all of the break speed stuff, has anyone taken in consideration that people break with different ball sets and on different cloth? I'm betting that a lighter ball on worn cloth will up your break speed quite a bit, surely by a few mph.

Oh, and Paul, I totally forgot to test the Windows Mobile app you did for me :( 5 hours of play and not once did I remember it.

And Mike Dechane was in the room too, could have timed him hehe. My brain leaks.
 
mullyman said:
Your break could be your nemisis because you're breaking too hard and aren't controlling the cue ball. I was messing with this the other night too and got into the 24's but I had zero control. Watching it over several games I was breaking best in the 19's. Just a thought.
MULLY
Click to expand...

I didn't even bother reading the rest of this thread, because Mully hit the nail on the head. I agree 110%.
 
Mike Banks Jr

I would like to clock Banks Juniors break. He may be near 30 mph.

A lot of the guys at the que were breaking tonight hitting 22-25 mph with the I phone ap.
 
I own a radar gun. One night at the late great Country Club USA in Chelmsford, MA I was playing around with the radar gun with a couple of strong breakers from the room, and also Mike Dechaine. On his first attempt, he hit 31 mph and launched the cueball straight up into the light, smashing it. It was hilarious. He was consistently able to hit 30-31, but that night he couldn't keep it on the table above 28 mph. I feel VERY confident he can hit over 30 with reasonable control. Pretty impressive to watch! (My best was a wimpy 27 mph ha ha!)

KMRUNOUT
 
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