Breakshots....Hard or Soft (average)

C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
First off let me start by stating that, obviously certain breakshots you can't smash regardless of your inclinations. And of course others you must hit at top speed otherwise you wont cause much damage.

That aside, which is the better approach? I've heard differing theories. Hitting the breakshot hard tends to get better spreads on average but you'll miss them more and you're more likely to scratch. Thorsten plays this way, so does Oliver Ortmann.

Hitting them softer seems to result in more control but you usually have more work to do. Thomas Engert adheres to this method and he has a 491 ball run to his credit. This is also the approach the top Straight Pool players of yesteryear seemed to take.

So which way is better? Is either way better?

I've always leaned towards hitting them harder but I find myself a million miles away from the rack a lot the time, lol. But I'm interested in tightening up my game and playing it properly (my patterns need work too), so I'm curious which way I should go.
 
Cameron Smith said:
That aside, which is the better approach? I've heard differing theories. Hitting the breakshot hard tends to get better spreads on average but you'll miss them more and you're more likely to scratch. Thorsten plays this way, so does Oliver Ortmann.

So which way is better? Is either way better?
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding non definitive, I think it depends largely on how the break shot lies.

As you mentioned in your post, some breakshots you shouldn't hit really hard and some you should.

I try to focus on 3 things during the break shot. 1. Make the break ball, 2. break up the rack so that there are balls free for the next shot, and 3. clear the cue ball so I have a next shot.

The varying relationships (angles) of the break ball the rack and the cue ball in my opinion should indicate how hard or how soft you hit the shot.

That's just my opinion though and I"m sure more knowledgeable straight pool players will respond.
 
and to add one more item besides those mentioned is which ball are you going to contact in the stack. When I am hitting the corner balls of the stack I generally will back off speed slightly otherwise balls on my 9ft tend to go to the rail and come back into the stack. If I take off a bit of speed they stay loose. Need to remember where cue ball is going as you take off speed or you can end up with loose balls and cue ball on bottom rail.
Anyway one of my recent observations.
For what it is worth.
 
I Agree with David and Rufus as well... Conditions do apply as well such as Rack Tightness, and Atmospheric Conditions and gravitational pull (right dave) LOL :grinning-moose:

it think what should be done, and Blackjack is the perfect candidate... is to setup the same break shot and hit it at varrying speeds to show the outcomes and get it done on video.

this can be like CSI 14.1

-Steve
 
I know this isn't much of an answer either, but it really does depend on the shot. All other things being equal, the more full the cut, the harder you have to hit it for a given amount of energy in the cue ball when it hits the stack. It also can depend on style. For example if you have a standard break shot that is low on the stack so the cue ball will probably hit the corner ball in the last row, do you prefer to hit it harder and have the cue ball come two rails back to the center of the table or softer and stay down by the foot rail where the loose balls are likely to be? Lastly, a lot depends on exactly where you access the CB will enter the stack. If you predict the CB to hit the stack where it will come off towards the head rail you may want to hit it a little harder so it will come off head rail and back up towards mid-table. It really depends.

Given all of this, if there are no other factors to consider I will tend to hit it a little on the soft side. This is because A) I'm old school and, B) the first order of business is to make the shot.
 
I agree with how the break shot lies. Also, I think as your speed as a player increased, your break shot speed decreases.

For me, as an example, whenever I get a chance at the rack--- I usually err to the side of hitting hard because I don't know if I'm good enough to keep chipping away at the rack. Generally, when I get a chance to spread them - I do.

More elite players keep whitey under constant control and break out a rack as many times as they need to (because they CAN).

I can't. So----- whooooooosh!
 
I understand the whole circumstance thing. But there are certain breakshots where it's players choice, and those are the ones I'm curious about.

If you watch Thorsten running balls, he hits many breakshots unbelievably hard. But on Irving Cranes 150 and out on the other hand, he tends to chip away at the balls. Crane has a much more controlled game. As mentioned before, Thomas Engert seems to play similarly.

I tried both today, just to play around with it. When I was hitting the rack with power, I ran a 50. But when I was chipping at the rack I couldn't get past 30. However I think that has a lot to do with a lack of experience with that style. But in general, the 50 ball run had more open racks with smaller clusters. The soft break required a lot more precise position play.

I want to work on it some more and see if I can develop that style more. Worst case scenario I improve my position play.
 
Cameron & Crane

Glad Cameron mentioned Crane's 150 and out against Balsis in the '66 Open. One thing I got from watching that was, when you have a break shot in which you're cutting the ball into a corner and have to come off the rail to hit the pile - bear down and concentrate supremely so you make the shot and hit the ball HARD so as not to get stuck to the side or the back of the rack like a magnet. This has worked wonders for me. In fact, there's time when a pattern works out better to just leave a ball along the rail and use it as the break ball rather than trying to manufacture a one by nudging balls around. I noticed that at the last 2 World Championships too. It's a good idea to practice these shots too so your confidence in making the ball with speed is there when you need it.

Ron F
 
IMHO, given a properly tight rack, the degree to which the balls part on a given table is my first overall consideration. Once fixed in my mind, break speed is relative to the shot placement as others have stated.
IOW, on some tables a given shot placement will require more force than the same shot on a different table assuming an equal spread. The ease or reluctance to which balls part is likely the first factor when considering speed.
 
Cameron Smith said:
I understand the whole circumstance thing. But there are certain breakshots where it's players choice, and those are the ones I'm curious about.

If you watch Thorsten running balls, he hits many breakshots unbelievably hard. But on Irving Cranes 150 and out on the other hand, he tends to chip away at the balls. Crane has a much more controlled game. As mentioned before, Thomas Engert seems to play similarly.

I tried both today, just to play around with it. When I was hitting the rack with power, I ran a 50. But when I was chipping at the rack I couldn't get past 30. However I think that has a lot to do with a lack of experience with that style. But in general, the 50 ball run had more open racks with smaller clusters. The soft break required a lot more precise position play.

I want to work on it some more and see if I can develop that style more. Worst case scenario I improve my position play.
Click to expand...

OK, all other things being equal and I have a choice, I will tend to hit it softer rather than harder. Again, job #1 is to make the ball. I'm comfortable enough dealing with secondary clusters after the break shot. Additionally, sometimes a hard break shot can create problems of its own such as sending balls up to the head rail. Also, sometimes a harder hit break shot will send balls to the side rail and back into a cluster where a softer shot will send them away from the stack but not back in.

Having said that, certainly a more forceful break shot on average will produce a better spread. Still, if there are no other factors to consider I would favor a break shot on the softer side. Don't mistake this for a slow roll though, just softer than some might hit it. Let's call it a slider, right between a fast ball and a curve. :grin:
 
Thanks for the good info, as I am also a little confused bout breaking the rack.

but then a softer break will lose the tendency of golden breaks right?
 
axio said:
Thanks for the good info, as I am also a little confused bout breaking the rack.

but then a softer break will lose the tendency of golden breaks right?
Click to expand...

Golden break? What's that? We are talking straight pool here, not 9 Ball. axio my friend, I think you missed the sign on the forum door when you came in.;)
 
Last edited:
If you watch Thorsten running balls, he hits many breakshots unbelievably hard. But on Irving Cranes 150 and out on the other hand, he tends to chip away at the balls. Crane has a much more controlled game.

I tried both today, just to play around with it. When I was hitting the rack with power, I ran a 50. But when I was chipping at the rack I couldn't get past 30. However I think that has a lot to do with a lack of experience with that style.

I want to work on it some more and see if I can develop that style more. Worst case scenario I improve my position play.[/QUOTE]

Hope you don't mind my editing of your post-Just wanted to say -
You have a great way of looking at this!
 
Breaking

Please forgive me if this was covered already.
In my opinion, when you have a good safe chance to hit the rack hard with power, take it. It is a lot easier to run racks when everything is wide open.
There are many, many break shots that will force you to hit the rack softer b/c that is all that you can get with the type of path for the cue ball to travel to the rack. With these lighter break shots, you must chip away at balls. This is where the better player excels. They know how to work the racks & clusters. It all depends on the type of key ball & break shot that a player sets up for themselves.
So, don't get upset with yourself with the way that you break the balls.
The main object of a break shot is to not scratch & to have a shot that leads to another.
Keep shooting & have fun.
 
Last edited:
14-1StraightMan said:
Please forgive me if this was covered already.
In my opinion, when you have a good safe chance to hit the rack hard with power, take it. It is a lot easier to run racks when everything is wide open.
There are many, many break shots that will force you to hit the rack softer b/c that is all that you can get with the type of path for the cue ball to travel to the rack. With these lighter break shots, you must chip away at balls. This is where the better player excels. They know how to work the racks & clusters. It all depends on the type of key ball & break shot that a player sets up for themselves.
So, don't get upset with yourself with the way that you break the balls.
The main object of a break shot is to not scratch & to have a shot that leads to another.
Keep shooting & have fun.
Click to expand...

I'm not upset, just re-analyzing my game. Embarrasingly my knowledge of break shots, key balls, patterns, insurance balls etc., are lacking when compared to most connoisseurs here. I typically get by with shot making ability and a little bit of knowledge. As a result I'm very, very inconsistent. So It's my new years resolution to learn to play properly.

I've made some strides, I ran a 64 while playing like crap today. I'm happy with that.

Back to the topic, I like Mika's style actually. From watching the 2009 championhips, he doesn't smash the rack, but he doesn't chip at it either. It appears that he hits it hard enough to maintain control, but not so hard that he flies back down table. Depending on the angle though, I still like powering the shot due to spread you generally get.
 
64

Cameron Smith said:
I'm not upset, just re-analyzing my game. Embarrasingly my knowledge of break shots, key balls, patterns, insurance balls etc., are lacking when compared to most connoisseurs here. I typically get by with shot making ability and a little bit of knowledge. As a result I'm very, very inconsistent. So It's my new years resolution to learn to play properly.

I've made some strides, I ran a 64 while playing like crap today. I'm happy with that.

Back to the topic, I like Mika's style actually. From watching the 2009 championhips, he doesn't smash the rack, but he doesn't chip at it either. It appears that he hits it hard enough to maintain control, but not so hard that he flies back down table. Depending on the angle though, I still like powering the shot due to spread you generally get.
Click to expand...


64 ball run. Darn good. A lot better then I have done lately. I'm just getting back to practicing after almost 6 weeks of not playing. (I've played twice in those six weeks) and it really shows now.
When I wrote "don't feel bad" I meant everyone who plays and has the same ideas about a break shot as you do. I hope that my comments help you and others.
With a 64 under your belt. It sounds like that you are on the right track to becoming more consistent. Good Luck.
 
Breakball-on-a-rail breakshots -- hit 'em HARD

Ron F said:
Glad Cameron mentioned Crane's 150 and out against Balsis in the '66 Open. One thing I got from watching that was, when you have a break shot in which you're cutting the ball into a corner and have to come off the rail to hit the pile - bear down and concentrate supremely so you make the shot and hit the ball HARD so as not to get stuck to the side or the back of the rack like a magnet. This has worked wonders for me. In fact, there's time when a pattern works out better to just leave a ball along the rail and use it as the break ball rather than trying to manufacture a one by nudging balls around. I noticed that at the last 2 World Championships too. It's a good idea to practice these shots too so your confidence in making the ball with speed is there when you need it.

Ron F
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Ron here. Breakball-on-the-rail breakshots are among my favorite, because the path of the cue ball after it rebounds off the cushion into the pile is easily predicted -- it's mostly a square-on hit. And after you practice these, you become good at them -- you easily see that little "socket" to shoot the cue ball into, to make the ball, and rebound off the cushion, into the pack. I like to hit these with a lot of power, if the pockets will allow me. (The only time my technique on these is altered, is if, after inspection of the table, I see that the table has that most hated of pocket cuts in straight pool, "Pro-cut" pockets -- you know, where there's a noticeable "V"-cut to the pockets, where the aperture of the pocket is much wider than the throat where the shelf ends. On these tables, you can't send a ball down the rail at speed [it will bobble and spit out], so I either hit these shots softly to make the ball and try to hit the pack less square-on, or else change my strategy to avoid these breakshots altogether.)

When I was on vacation spending the holidays with my folks out in Colorado, I took advantage of a certain establishment's "free pool all day Wednesday" (Greenfields Pool & Sports Bar) on 29 December. I was mainly horsing around, letting off a little steam after not being able to play pool as consistently as I'm used to. (I played a grand total of TWICE the whole two weeks I was out there in CO; once at Fox & Hound, and this time at Greenfields.) Greenfields only has Valley barboxes, as it's an APA hangout/stronghold. So, with the side panel of the barbox removed giving access to the ball collection container (as Greenfields does with their "free pool" days), I decided to play some "straights on the barbie" as methinks an Aussie would put it. :D

Because of the barbox's much-reduced shot distance (shots are obviously easier on the barbox than on a 9-footer), I was able to make some [what I consider to be] absolutely RIDICULOUS breakball-on-a-rail breakshots, like these two (barbox-sized WEI table):

CueTable Help



CueTable Help



I was just horsin' around and would never plan for these type of break shots in more serious practice of course, but in the process of enjoying some pints of Guinness and just letting my hair down / stroke out, it was fun! I ran a 143 that night, and I was just shaking my head at some of these crazy break shots, that I'd normally never leave myself on a 9-footer. But the point is, you hit these correctly (i.e. hard!), and you get GREAT results!

-Sean
 
Barbox WEI table not displaying correctly?

Hmm, I selected the Barbox-sized WEI table in cuetable.com, but it appears it's display a 9-footer in my post above, with spaces in-between the balls in the rack area. I must've done something wrong? (I don't normally use the Barbox-size WEI table -- it's quite possible I didn't do something right.)

Scratching head,
-Sean
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top