John
We can assume all sorts of reasons that fit our agenda to justify the poster's cowardly actions. Myself, I assume he posted like that because he hasn't bought enough stuff from me.
You lost me on this one. Sometimes the voice of dissent is anonymous for a reason.
The Tommy situation is unique, I can't think of another like him (perhaps you can?). He was a long-time respected poster here with loads of transactions and numerous happy clients and then he just went south. I'm not sure there's a "cure" for that one single unique situation, and changing how we operate in order to prevent that one happenstance might be a little knee-jerk.
Actually, the prevention comes in the form of knowing that legal action in the form of police reports and civil suits will be filed. When people see other people get screwed over all the time and nothing happens to the one doing the screwing then it's no deterrent. I think that once a person becomes and established seller then that person should have their accurate information on file with the site.
Plus I am not suggesting we change how we operate because of this situation. I am suggesting we change how we do things because of many such situations.
I also don't think its the mods' responsibility to police the for sale forums. We as a community do that, although perhaps our rule of not knocking a users' For Sale thread prevents this somewhat? Its not like it is the AZ Billiards Store. AZ benefits in no way from our sales and yet they provide a (pretty much) free and a without fees way for many of us (including yourself and certainly myself) to conduct business, locate buyers and hawk our goods. I, for one am way grateful for that.
I disagree. I think that the for sale forum SHOULD be moderated and the mods should be people who are there all the time whose reps are beyond reproach. There should be three of them and they should mediate disputes and their word should be final or the parties can take their dispute offline and fight out in court or whatever.
AZB benefits from the traffic. They sell banner ads that are based on impressions. The more times a user clicks on posts then the more times an ad is shown to them. A lively classifieds section brings in visitors and it brings in visitors who just search on google for pool related items and who aren't active members. That's a win for AZB and the advertisers.
Myself, I buy some 30K worth of stuff a month on the internet, mostly from people I don't know, and I have never lost a penny (outside of buying something for more than I could sell it for , which I do some). I have my own rules for how I do it and I've shared those rules here (out of a sense of community) and largely been ignored. If a buying situation doesn't match my rules, I act like it doesn't exist and pass and move on.
Well, being sensible is certainly each person's responsibility. You obviously have a lot more experience than most of the people transacting here. But where would one find your rules? I have never seen them. The point there is that as far as I know there is no way to access them easily. Good stuff like that is just lost in the volume of posts.
That being said, if Barry Szamboti told me he had a spot open up and I could have it if I sent him a 1K deposit, he'd have that money so fast it would make his head spin, and fronting money out I can't recover or reverse is against my rules. So unique situations do take place.
Of course. That is a risk worth taking.
Almost all of the "rip-offs" I've read about could have prevented had the buyer acted with my rules (or the mods' suggestion that we escrow ((which I don't)). I'm just not sure more rules are the answer. I think more common sense is. As far as creating a legislative state in order to protect those with little common sense? As a person that feels I have a lot of common sense, dealing with those types of regulations always rubs me the wrong way.
As you said there isn't much you can do about a person who simply disappears after doing so well for so long. I wasn't necessarily suggesting we need more rules. But perhaps some STRONGER guidelines to include your experience would be helpful with also some better moderation in the section. I think you would have to agree that the average person wouldn't even see your rules. I am in the WFS section many times a day and I have never seen them.
I just think that there ought to be a few tweaks that don't allow for people to be semi-anonymous and yet transacting for thousands of dollars a month using AZB as their platform. Some ID verification ought to be present in some form. Sellers who do a certain number of sales ought to become club members. There should be a directory of sellers with accurate contact information listed.
Then it's much easier to separate the wheat from the chaff. And MAYBE there SHOULD be a knocking secton of the WFS forum where people CAN complain about things being offered. Maybe in that forum people can refer to a for sale thread and describe why they have a problem with it and let it be discussed. Then if people want to check there they can and if they don't and they buy the offending item it's on them. Obviously if I am offering up items for sale at the flea market I don't want people standing in front of my booth knocking my stuff but I can't prevent them from standing at the corner and doing it for anyone who will listen. To me this can really backfire on the knockers if they can't make a logical case.
I say live by the sword and die by the sword. If you want to use the free message board to sell your stuff then be prepared to be knocked if there is something wrong with your offer. If you can defend your offer then it should be no problem. I am kind of on the fence about this one but in general I think people should be free to express their opinions as long as they aren't just being jerks and lying to make a point.
Anyway this thread is now TOTALLY hijacked.
Hope Tommy resurfaces and makes it all good.
