Cardone got jerked around

Everyone has heard the stories about Cliff. Hell, I was in Atlanta 2 weeks ago for a tourney and was there for only 30 mins when Cliff asked me to loan him $100....I politely declined. But, I have never heard of Incardona being involved in anything like that. JMO.

Southpaw
 
JCIN said:
I have heard all the same shit you have about Cliff. Do I bet on him? No. But then I don't bet on many people. Something I also do not do is run my mouth about someone being in on a robbery unless I KNOW.

I have seen my share of things I was 100% sure was crooked. But unless I KNOW, not " I saw 2 guys talking after the match" or "I heard from my buddy" that something criminal happened I do not get on an open forum and accuse someone of stealing.

But you are right. If 2 guys like Billy and Cliff did cut someone up, I am sure they are gonna whack the money up in the parking lot of the restaraunt next door to the pool room. That is much more believable than Cliff taking a little nibble.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am not naive. But unless you KNOW. Why start shit?
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I'm not saying anything that anyone doesn't already know and I do know personally of two separate events. I was there. But, either way, all I said was I wouldn't bet on him, just like you said.
 
MYOB - I Agree

freddy the beard said:
Sounds like you are on your way to a new career, your own detective agency. When it came to "business" games I was always taught MYOB, mind your own business.

the Beard
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How would anyone know if there was "business" Maybe one guy was paying the other for a cue he purchased, or owed money from earlier, or a multitude of other possibilities. To come on here and immediately surmise that there was "business" is dangerous and uncalled for in my opinion.

-don
 
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Cliff Joyner

corvette1340 said:
lol, because Cliff would never and has never dumped, right? I wouldn't bet $5 on a Cliff match for him or against him.
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I have bet several times on Cliff and won most of the times, I think many of the stories about people dumping are very over exagerrated, most people that play at the level of guys like Cliff attained a lot of that ability because they are extremely competitive and hate to lose. I wish people would not always assume that any loss by many players is a dump, Like Ronnie Allen says - "Doggin It and Dumpin It, Look Very Similar"

-don
 
Smorgass Bored said:
A 'nit' to me has always been someone with a heart the size of a bb. Someone that wouldn't raise the bet from $5 to $10 until they were up $200. Someone that had so many stipulations, that you couldn't ever get the damn game started.

Here's a definition from online:
As nitpicking inherently requires fastidious, meticulous attention to detail, the term has become appropriated to describe the practice of meticulously searching for minor, even trivial errors in detail (often referred to as "nits" as well), and then criticising them. "Nitpicker" in this sense was often used after 1951, predominantly in the United States.

Doug
( Billy srewed up the whole deal when he WON the first match ) :)
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Speaking of a situation i was in...
1st of all the guy had his own backer...
I had him down he asked to double the bet...i did from 25 to 50
had him down some more,he asked to double the bet...i did 50 to 100
we played for 10 hours and he had me down 600 so i asked to double the bet...well guess what he said he wouldn't.....NIT!! I broke my cue down and said to myself...no wonder i don't have any drive to continue being a gambler....:mad:
 
corvette1340 said:
I do know personally of two separate events.
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This is what I am curious about. So were you in on the dump? Did Cliff tell you "I cut that guy up?" Did you have any actual stake in the game or were you on the rail?

I am just curious. Really no BS. I know some people that if Shane lost a match would swear on a stack of bibles he dumped and they saw it coming.

I am not picking on you, it is one of my pet peeves when people make broad damning statements without any real evidence other than they "know".

I hope you see my point, I can not presume to know what you saw. But from my point of view, for your statement to have any validity, you would have to have first hand knowledge of the business. Not "I was there". I have been lots of places and thought I knew what was going on only to be proven wrong. Maybe this is one of them.
 
JCIN said:
This is what I am curious about. So were you in on the dump? Did Cliff tell you "I cut that guy up?" Did you have any actual stake in the game or were you on the rail?

I am just curious. Really no BS. I know some people that if Shane lost a match would swear on a stack of bibles he dumped and they saw it coming.

I am not picking on you, it is one of my pet peeves when people make broad damning statements without any real evidence other than they "know".

I hope you see my point, I can not presume to know what you saw. But from my point of view, for your statement to have any validity, you would have to have first hand knowledge of the business. Not "I was there". I have been lots of places and thought I knew what was going on only to be proven wrong. Maybe this is one of them.
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You are right. I'm not 100% certain so I won't say that it was for sure a dump. In one instance the player in question shot around the speed of a C player because the game was so out of line everyone bet on him and then he lost. In the other instance, the other player told me that it was dump and that in fact whenever the two of them match up, whether it be in Florida or California or anywhere in between, they had a standing agreement. The terms of which were, whichever side had the most bet on it , the other side would win. He said it was an unspoken agreement they had done it so many times.
 
I've read thru this thread this morning, and would like to make a couple of comments.

Yes, there have been "dumps" in pool games. Many that I PERSONALLY was aware of. Will I ever say who was involved. HELL NO!! I will only say that I was not a part of it either way, and didn't want to be. And, yes I have been dumped and know it. My response is to no longer associate with that person.

As far as Billy goes, he needs no endorsement from me. His reputation in the Pool world is well established. I have known Billy over 40 years, but we have never been close friends, just gambling acquaintances. We have gambled with each other on several occasions and he definitely enjoys taking my money, as much as I enjoy winning his.

But I will say this for Billy. I would bet my last dollar he has NEVER been involved in a dump. It's just not in his nature. When Billy plays Pool, he is trying to win. PERIOD! That's why he's hard to bet against. The reason he has made so many scores over the years is that he makes fair games. He is actually not a locksmith. He just plays good under pressure. Always has too.

Billy is a great guy to gamble with. He will bet as high as you want, won't quit, doesn't pull any moves, and pays off like a bank if he loses. This is an old school high roller. He is trying to get down for all he can and then have the heart and talent to take it off. So I admire Billy. I have been watching his act for a long time, and he hasn't changed much over the years. I wish I played half as good and had half the gamble he does. I am a NIT compared to him. So are a lot of people.

So before anyone on here starts talking about someone they hardly know, I would suggest they think twice.
 
jay helfert said:
I've read thru this thread this morning, and would like to make a couple of comments.

Yes, there have been "dumps" in pool games. Many that I PERSONALLY was aware of. Will I ever say who was involved. HELL NO!! I will only say that I was not a part of it either way, and didn't want to be. And, yes I have been dumped and know it. My response is to no longer associate with that person.

As far as Billy goes, he needs no endorsement from me. His reputation in the Pool world is well established. I have known Billy over 40 years, but we have never been close friends, just gambling acquaintances. We have gambled with each other on several occasions and he definitely enjoys taking my money, as much as I enjoy winning his.

But I will say this for Billy. I would bet my last dollar he has NEVER been involved in a dump. It's just not in his nature. When Billy plays Pool, he is trying to win. PERIOD! That's why he's hard to bet against. The reason he has made so many scores over the years is that he makes fair games. He is actually not a locksmith. He just plays good under pressure. Always has too.

Billy is a great guy to gamble with. He will bet as high as you want, won't quit, doesn't pull any moves, and pays off like a bank if he loses. This is an old school high roller. He is trying to get down for all he can and then have the heart and talent to take it off. So I admire Billy. I have been watching his act for a long time, and he hasn't changed much over the years. I wish I played half as good and had half the gamble he does. I am a NIT compared to him. So are a lot of people.

So before anyone on here starts talking about someone they hardly know, I would suggest they think twice.
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I think Jay has summed it up I have been reading about Billy being a locksmith and all for weeks on various threads here. I think those accusing him of being a locksmith don't know what a locksmith is. Billy has always been a good gambler he makes a game he has a chance of winning then proceeds to play his heart out. Sometimes he comes up short but the better percentage of the time he wins because he has the recipe for winning. A locksmith wins the game before he gets to the table via negotiating an unfair game. That is something Billy can't be accused of.
Philw
 
jay helfert said:
I've read thru this thread this morning, and would like to make a couple of comments.

Yes, there have been "dumps" in pool games. Many that I PERSONALLY was aware of. Will I ever say who was involved. HELL NO!! I will only say that I was not a part of it either way, and didn't want to be. And, yes I have been dumped and know it. My response is to no longer associate with that person.

As far as Billy goes, he needs no endorsement from me. His reputation in the Pool world is well established. I have known Billy over 40 years, but we have never been close friends, just gambling acquaintances. We have gambled with each other on several occasions and he definitely enjoys taking my money, as much as I enjoy winning his.

But I will say this for Billy. I would bet my last dollar he has NEVER been involved in a dump. It's just not in his nature. When Billy plays Pool, he is trying to win. PERIOD! That's why he's hard to bet against. The reason he has made so many scores over the years is that he makes fair games. He is actually not a locksmith. He just plays good under pressure. Always has too.

Billy is a great guy to gamble with. He will bet as high as you want, won't quit, doesn't pull any moves, and pays off like a bank if he loses. This is an old school high roller. He is trying to get down for all he can and then have the heart and talent to take it off. So I admire Billy. I have been watching his act for a long time, and he hasn't changed much over the years. I wish I played half as good and had half the gamble he does. I am a NIT compared to him. So are a lot of people.

So before anyone on here starts talking about someone they hardly know, I would suggest they think twice.
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Jay, I also have been following this thread this morning,and appreciate all the support of most of the posters with the exception of a few people that made unsubstantiated statements. I would like to correct your post in that we are just gambling acquaintances, we have always been friends,and after your post we became closer..
 
down here say someone gets 9-7 and a pick..they get to pick their ball off the table right after their break....
 
Pittsburg Billy The Kid

Everybody (most everybody) is speaking so well of Billy I., that I just have to throw some cold water on all of that. All these accolades are making me nauseous. I have known Billy since he first came up to Chicago from Pittsburg, and was then known as Billy The Kid. Deep down I really love the guy, but most of the time I would enjoy strangling him for his muleheadedness. We have been playing against each other and arguing for the last 40 years. I remember clearly, and treasure the few times I have beaten him. (I figure I'd better give myself up first before he starts woofin about how many times he has broke me) Billy knew just how to handle me, those few times I was in dead stroke, and presented a serious threat to him, he would just quit, and wait until I came back to reality before he would play again. I think Artie Bodendorfer taught him that move. Billy was pretty hard to beat, and aside from Artie, I don't think anybody has a winning record on him. However, the few times I did eek out were glorious. Now the only times we compete, is in the broadcast booth where I have to keep reminding him that his shot selection is hideous. Anyway, the truth is, I'm jealous that he can still play, and bet it up, and I can't play for over 20 a game anymore. I plan on taking it out on him in the broadcast booth at Derby City this year.
Take care of yourself, Billy and quit letting these guys take advantage of you.

the Beard
 
JoeyA said:
Previously in another post you said that you "HEARD". HEARING is way different than SEEING.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=69673

So which was it?

Just curious.

Thanks,

JoeyA
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I caught that too when I did a search of his posts. It seems odd to me that a couple guys would brother in law a backer and then divide up the cash in public. You should be damn sure you know what you are talking about before you go public because people have gotten hurt over that kind of stuff.
 
freddy the beard said:
Everybody (most everybody) is speaking so well of Billy I., that I just have to throw some cold water on all of that. All these accolades are making me nauseous. I have known Billy since he first came up to Chicago from Pittsburg, and was then known as Billy The Kid. Deep down I really love the guy, but most of the time I would enjoy strangling him for his muleheadedness. We have been playing against each other and arguing for the last 40 years. I remember clearly, and treasure the few times I have beaten him. (I figure I'd better give myself up first before he starts woofin about how many times he has broke me) Billy knew just how to handle me, those few times I was in dead stroke, and presented a serious threat to him, he would just quit, and wait until I came back to reality before he would play again. I think Artie Bodendorfer taught him that move. Billy was pretty hard to beat, and aside from Artie, I don't think anybody has a winning record on him. However, the few times I did eek out were glorious. Now the only times we compete, is in the broadcast booth where I have to keep reminding him that his shot selection is hideous. Anyway, the truth is, I'm jealous that he can still play, and bet it up, and I can't play for over 20 a game anymore. I plan on taking it out on him in the broadcast booth at Derby City this year.
Take care of yourself, Billy and quit letting these guys take advantage of you.

the Beard
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Beard, you have always been one of my favorite people for many reasons,but why now after 40 plus years of arguing are you being so generous???Sorry but i'm going to be extra carefull with you from here on in.YOUR MOVE. LOL
 
Billy I just watched a match between Alex and Bustamante and one of your lines was classic - you commented that shot should be shot one way and then the shooter shot it another way and you said, 'well obviously he feels it was a better shot to shoot it that way, it's not often that the player at the table shoots better than the announcer but it can be done' (paraphrased)

Sometimes your comments are priceless.
 
The last word about the dump!

I had the pleasure of spending part of the last month with Billy Incardone. We have been friends for some time but not to the extent that we don't gamble with each other.

Why would he come up and ask me if I wanted a 1/3 of his bet if he knew there was business going on. All you smarts just answer that question!

He's smart and we are friends but we aren't that close and he would never be that dumb!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand. Ricky Byrd, when would you like for Billy and I to come back down there and finish the bet at 11-7. We need to move on and get this out of the way. Billy did his part and played the tough game first. Now it's your turn to "do the right thing".
 
memphisbill said:
I had the pleasure of spending part of the last month with Billy Incardone. We have been friends for some time but not to the extent that we don't gamble with each other.

Why would he come up and ask me if I wanted a 1/3 of his bet if he knew there was business going on. All you smarts just answer that question!

He's smart and we are friends but we aren't that close and he would never be that dumb!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand. Ricky Byrd, when would you like for Billy and I to come back down there and finish the bet at 11-7. We need to move on and get this out of the way. Billy did his part and played the tough game first. Now it's your turn to "do the right thing".
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Thank you for your quote, i'm glad that's out of the way,especially for Cliff who played his heart out. And if anyone talks to Byrd about his opinion I would like to hear what he has to say,and if he plans on finishing the agreement.Have a nice day Memphis
 
Gaffe Game In Olathe

Hey Billy,

I`m the guy at Shooters-Olathe last month that teed up the gaffe game with Corey Duel where the bet was for $200 that he could not make 21 balls in 5 racks (subject to certain rules). You snapped him off for $400. While we were all just standing around waiting for action, you were IN action and took him off for the cash in less than 30 minutes!

Next time you are in Olathe I am going to hit you up for a Shooters strip steak!!

That was an hour of good fun. Stay in action!!

Will :cool: :cool: ;) :p :p :p :p
 
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