Castle Billiards NJ, throw player out for being too good

voiceofreason said:
Gokhul is claiming to have declared himself as a BCA Master level player, which was apparently confirmed by two other players in the event. Based on what you knwo about him now, would you say that was a fair reflection of his ability, or is he a higher or lower standard?
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Voice,

Having never seen him play, I really don't know. Agree with those of you who say once he began to play, he should have been allowed to finish. Bar him from future events.

Some amateur events over here state on the entry form "No Masters". Pretty much gives the range of players allowed.

I'm rated as a BCAPL Master. I'm seventy years young. Regularly play in events where my opponents are one third my age. My experience offsets their eyesight :grin: !

Lyn
 
Pretty good BCA Master level player. Anyone that can take a 5 time Canadian Open champ (Klatt) out of the finals in a tournament (if that is indeed accurate) has got to be one of the best master level players out there.
 
voiceofreason said:
Gokhul is claiming to have declared himself as a BCA Master level player, which was apparently confirmed by two other players in the event. Based on what you knwo about him now, would you say that was a fair reflection of his ability, or is he a higher or lower standard?
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Well since the tourney was open to skill level A's and lower and beings that a Master is above an A. Do you believe you want to continue fueling a fire to burn yourself? For someone that calls them self 'voiceofreason' there's not much reasoning going on. Stop beating the dead horse already, you're wrong, Gokhul was wrong.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Well since the tourney was open to skill level A's and lower and beings that a Master is above an A. Do you believe you want to continue fueling a fire to burn yourself? For someone that calls them self 'voiceofreason' there's not much reasoning going on. Stop beating the dead horse already, you're wrong, Gokhul was wrong.
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What are you talking about? If he declared himself as a master player before the tournament started, and was allowed to enter, where is he wrong?
 
SakuJack said:
What are you talking about? If he declared himself as a master player before the tournament started, and was allowed to enter, where is he wrong?
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if danny declared himself as a bca master level player and he previously double dipped jason klatt, then maybe he sandbagged.

or possibly the tourney in which he doubled klatt was just an unsually big day for him.

it would be nice to know at what level he usually plays at in other US tourneys where he is a known quantity.

best,
brian kc
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
or possibly the tourney in which he doubled klatt was just an unsually big day for him.
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I think this is a good point. It may be. You can't judge a player's level on two performances (no matter how strong).

From what I have read, I think he was probably too strong to play in the tournament, but was up front from the beginning about his level of play. I think the TD could have made better choices, but wasn't massively out of line in the way he handled things. I think those jumping to the accusations of sneaking, etc. in this thread have shown themselves up somewhat.
 
voiceofreason said:
So we are in agreement he is not a professional then?
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The thing is, at least here: You don't have to be professional to be barred from amateur events. So open players are grouped with pros, as opposed to amateur. Once any player is deemed open, he is not supposed to enter ABCD events. (He is supposed to enter pro/open events.)
 
It's a hard situation. I've travelled around and played tournaments and I try to be as honest as I can representing my speed but if I don't play good I look like a fantasy capper and if I play good and win then no matter what I told the TD everyone is pissed. So I feel for both the player and the TD.
 
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voiceofreason said:
So we are in agreement he is not a professional then?
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The big problem here is you do not understand how we do things here. There is a difference between professional, open and amateur here. "open" is the step between amateur and professional. Too good for one, not good enough for the other. The player in question is an open player and too good for this event.
 
voiceofreason said:
Gokhul is claiming to have declared himself as a BCA Master level player, which was apparently confirmed by two other players in the event. Based on what you knwo about him now, would you say that was a fair reflection of his ability, or is he a higher or lower standard?
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I know both of the players who vouched for him. Neither of them had played him or even really knew him... they saw him play a weaker player and he lost. Clearly he was either laying down or played a bad set.
 
Mr Cleary,

Before you post any further, why not take a pause, perhaps have a cigar or a cup of coffee..

Relax at least..

Read all of my posts, your posts and some of those in between again.

Read them twice in fact...

When you are well relaxed... Consult people that know you and Ram well, for the sake of argument, Darren Appleton.

See what he has to say on this...
 
cleary said:
The big problem here is you do not understand how we do things here. There is a difference between professional, open and amateur here. "open" is the step between amateur and professional. Too good for one, not good enough for the other. The player in question is an open player and too good for this event.
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What is your point?

Are you amending your earlier position that the player some how cheated?

If your position remains that he cheated.. Please explain how?
 
voiceofreason said:
mr cleary,

before you post any further, why not take a pause, perhaps have a cigar or a cup of coffee..

Relax at least..

Read all of my posts, your posts and some of those in between again.

Read them twice in fact...

When you are well relaxed... Consult people that know you and ram well, for the sake of argument, darren appleton.

See what he has to say on this...
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voice...drop it..open players not invited,castle will protect theirplayers and tourney just like the tri state ,mezz or predator...he is owed nothing
 
cleary said:
I know both of the players who vouched for him. Neither of them had played him or even really knew him... they saw him play a weaker player and he lost. Clearly he was either laying down or played a bad set.
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Do you have further details?

Dates? Tournament? Venue?

Can you explain why these two players "vouched for him" into their own local tournament when they didn't really know him?

Could you give them a call or an email and get a direct quote on this issue please?
 
scttybee said:
voice...drop it..open players not invited,castle will protect theirplayers and tourney just like the tri state ,mezz or predator...he is owed nothing
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Hi there,

I can only deal with one point, as the the following points are self explanatory..


open players not invited
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I did not know this was an invite event. Leaving that aside, I asked a question at post 156 (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4864449&postcount=156) regarding what "open" meant. I received two replies:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4864462&postcount=157

and

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4864481&postcount=158

Post 158 lists five standards of ability - in descending order:

Grand Master
Master
Advanced Intermediate
Open
Leisure/Standard

Your position is that open players are not invited yet the player declared himself as a master standard player. Can you explain this?
 
cleary said:
The big problem here is you do not understand how we do things here. There is a difference between professional, open and amateur here. "open" is the step between amateur and professional. Too good for one, not good enough for the other. The player in question is an open player and too good for this event.
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Sounds like you have a clear definition. And most in the US know what a BCA Master is. So if Danny declared, why wouldn't the TD say "thanks for coming, but this tourney is for local, known players"?

My guess is the TD took a shot trying to increase the field, but then had 2nd thoughts 2/3 through the tourney when it was going to impact his finish, horses finish, or whatever. I wasn't there, so just a guess.

I've seen multiple posts of "protecting out locals". So unknowns putting their $ up to increase prize fund is all good, but if they get close to the cash, TD protects the locals by giving back the entry fee and says no harm, no foul.

What was the payout in this tourney anyway?

You know why Danny beat Klatt, because he wasn't afraid to play. Danny steps up in any tourney simply because he has a passion for pool and wants to challenge himself.
 
Diamond69 said:
Sounds like you have a clear definition. And most in the US know what a BCA Master is. So if Danny declared, why wouldn't the TD say "thanks for coming, but this tourney is for local, known players"?

My guess is the TD took a shot trying to increase the field, but then had 2nd thoughts 2/3 through the tourney when it was going to impact his finish, horses finish, or whatever. I wasn't there, so just a guess.

I've seen multiple posts of "protecting out locals". So unknowns putting their $ up to increase prize fund is all good, but if they get close to the cash, TD protects the locals by giving back the entry fee and says no harm, no foul.

What was the payout in this tourney anyway?

You know why Danny beat Klatt, because he wasn't afraid to play. Danny steps up in any tourney simply because he has a passion for pool and wants to challenge himself.
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Closer to the money than much of the early part of this thread I would imagine..
 
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