Challenge of Champions dump

One thing I can say for certain is that I don't question the integrity of Buddy Hall. It is one at the very top in the pool world imo. I don't think anyone here who has spent any time with him would question his integrity, much less the peole who know him, even if it were 100% confirmed to be as Jay claims.

From what I have seen or read here though, people are only assuming what went down and/or why. And that includes Jay.

I sincerely hope Buddy has changed and is now the upstanding citizen you see him as. I have personal knowledge of his actions and behavior in the late 80's just a few years before this fiasco.
 
Ain't gonna happen

Bring it! I relish the counter suit, but it ain't gonna happen. I may lose a few brownie points is all. :cool:

I can just see it now. All the players involved in the scandal getting a Subpoena to testify.

Buy stock in the manufacturer of Depends Diapers. There will be a "run" on them.

Don :eek:
 
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Sonic Satorio must have received a free DVD from CJ at some point.

Probably the Rifleman Meditation Series.

But anyway, thanks for the clarification on this subject Greg.

Seems like a couple or three people that were in the know had enuff Back Bone to
tell it like they saw and heard it as to confirm what seems like the obvious.

The other couple, maybe just one, poster made himself look rather silly defending people that probably wouldn't return the favor if the shoe was on the other foot.

So, if a person defends a guilty person/persons, does that make them just as guilty?
That is, if you're not a lawyer and getting paid for doing it.

At the very least, it would bring them down to the level of the perpetrators.
 
Interesting. I believe the universally accepted definition of integrity is "doing what's right even when no one is looking". That being the case, I could argue that feeding your kids is the right thing to do no matter how you do it.

But since I don't believe they were dumping to feed their kids, then I cannot respect their move.

uhhh, well depends on how you define feeding kids, but some if not all those guys were living pay day to pay day...and some had kids that they in fact had to ..uh.........feed and pay bills towards:wink:
 
uhhh, well depends on how you define feeding kids, but some if not all those guys were living pay day to pay day...and some had kids that they in fact had to ..uh.........feed and pay bills towards:wink:


If the players in question were living paycheck to paycheck it was due to their poor money management or lifestyle choices, so who gives a shit? If they were that concerned with their kids they would have come up with a better plan than dumping. Typical pool player attitude, any excuse to take the unethical, but easy, way out.
 
I sincerely hope Buddy has changed and is now the upstanding citizen you see him as. I have personal knowledge of his actions and behavior in the late 80's just a few years before this fiasco.

Buddy recently did a Challenge the Pro session for free to help out at our Special Olympics pool tournament fundraiser.
 
buddy is a good guy. get that straight. what every is talking about is a few players that made a mistake and did a stupid thing in the past that didnt seem so bad at the time. it probably looked to them that the only one getting hurt was the casino. not many people feel sorry for the casino.
 
No matter how you reasonably define integrity, wether it's morals or honesty or whatever Buddy has it imo.

The way I sincerely see this is who really knows what happened? When $10,000 wins you $200,000 I could see a lot of different people getting involved who have nothing to do with pool. Of course I have no knowledge of anything like that happening but I'm just saying no one who has posted here knows anything imo and question in Buddy is wrong.

^^^^ this is just one hypothetical situation to point out that it is easy to assume but who knows for sure.
I believe the 20/1 had a cap bet at $200.
 
How many folks on here, that are over the age of 45, that say 25 years ago or so, someone told you they had a horse in the fifth, and the fix was in, would NOT go lay a few bucks on that horse?

C'mon. I'm described as a Boy Scout in NPR, but a "lock" don't come around very often when you're in your twenties ;)
 
casinos and most bookies will have lines on some special events for their customers. they usually are smart enough to know that business can go on so they have tight limits on what you can bet. here it sounds like it was 200 bucks. as that is what they all had bet. that is why the casino didnt change the line. it was a social line, and not put out to make money on. and dont think the casino didnt know that something was going on when all that action went on the longshot.

same with smaller race tracks and small boxing matches. you cant get down much money as they know what happens if big action comes in on one side.
 
Just curious - who knocked Hopkins out of this Challenge? ...

• 1991 Challenge of Champions, First Round:
Hall def. Hopkins 5-3
Lebron d. Rempe 5-4
Davenport d. Sigel 5-4
Howard d. Varner 5-0

• Second Round (Semi-Finals):
Hall d. Davenport 5-3
Lebron d. Howard 5-3

• Finals:
Lebron d. Hall 9-8
 
• 1991 Challenge of Champions, First Round:
Hall def. Hopkins 5-3
Lebron d. Rempe 5-4
Davenport d. Sigel 5-4
Howard d. Varner 5-0

• Second Round (Semi-Finals):
Hall d. Davenport 5-3
Lebron d. Howard 5-3

• Finals:
Lebron d. Hall 9-8

Allen was the only one not in on the deal. Buddy had to play to beat him. I had good reason not to be happy about "The Deal" since I was the TD. It made me a little sick to my stomach when I found out what was going on. I felt bad for my friend Matt Braun who had put this thing together. He was justifiably pissed and made sure that it never happened again and it didn't! Rempe took a dive and so did David. They're my friends but what they did here was just not cool. Like I said before, a long time ago but a black mark just the same. That one event will forever be tainted, kind of like the Black Sox Series in baseball.
 
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Shortsighted

buddy is a good guy. get that straight. what every is talking about is a few players that made a mistake and did a stupid thing in the past that didnt seem so bad at the time. it probably looked to them that the only one getting hurt was the casino. not many people feel sorry for the casino.

If the fix was on (I do believe it was) then those in on the fix had little or no concern for anyone but themselves.

I would bet that the majority of wagers made on this event came from people who played pool or had some interest in the sport.



Don :frown:
 
Sure would have been easier to have let Davenport play LeBron in the finals if there was a conspiracy.

The next question I have is why would Allen even play if he knew that the other seven players were conspiring against him?

Did he just figure to take his own shot knowing he had to win three matches? Nothing anyone could do if he won his matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
Sure would have been easier to have let Davenport play LeBron in the finals if there was a conspiracy.

The next question I have is why would Allen even play if he knew that the other seven players were conspiring against him?

Did he just figure to take his own shot knowing he had to win three matches? Nothing anyone could do if he won his matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Allen was trying to win for himself and his friend Matt.
 
• 1991 Challenge of Champions, First Round:
Hall def. Hopkins 5-3
Lebron d. Rempe 5-4
Davenport d. Sigel 5-4
Howard d. Varner 5-0

• Second Round (Semi-Finals):
Hall d. Davenport 5-3
Lebron d. Howard 5-3

• Finals:
Lebron d. Hall 9-8


I just went to the kitchen, prior to which I said to Pinky "Where's AtLarge to answer my Q?" lol And BOOM, superstatman to the rescue! TY.

So... would any of this scandal seen the light of day had Allen won? :eek:
 
Allen was the only one not in on the deal. Buddy had to play to beat him. I had good reason not to be happy about "The Deal" since I was the TD. It made me a little sick to my stomach when I found out what was going on. I felt bad for my friend Matt Braun who had put this thing together. He was justifiably pissed and made sure that it never happened again and it didn't! Rempe took a dive and so did David. They're my friends but what they did here was just not cool. Like I said before, a long time ago but a black mark just the same. That one event will forever be tainted, kind of like the Black Sox Series in baseball.

It never happened again because the casinos wont get involved betting wise again. If Vegas opened a line we all know it would just be a matter of time IMO. You can't even bet on Mosconi Cup in Vegas. :cool:
 
The next question I have is why would Allen even play if he knew that the other seven players were conspiring against him?

Did he just figure to take his own shot knowing he had to win three matches? Nothing anyone could do if he won his matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

How is that any different from any normal tournament?
 
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