Challenge of Champions dump

[JB Cases]

agreed, Roberta.
let's bring it full circle & back to kharma....

that WAS.
this IS.
NEXT?

my beef w/ Buddy, is based on our conversation, etc @ Mosconi, on behalf of the $3K AZBers who contributed, per JA's request, via BigTruck, with non-gratis, etc.

and if MY NAME were being slung through the AZB mud, as a business person (i use that term loosely), i would ABSOLUTELY make a statement, IN MY DEFENSE, or OWNERSHIP.

you either takie it to your grave - or cleanse. it's part of The 12 Steps.


.

Well, Buddy Hall has never participated here or anywhere online that I know of. We only have had two posts where the posters said that they asked Buddy directly and Buddy said it wasn't a dump.

I don't know what else he could say to "clear his name" that would actually mean anything to those who already think that it was a dump. What else can he say that would change anyone's mind?

I guess I can't get over Rempe/Lebron being 5:4 and then David Howard winning the first 3 racks with tough outs against Lebron if they both planned to dump against him.

It very well COULD be that they talked about it and the plan all along was to make every set close.

 

[Straightpool_99]

In the real world, not the dump world, if Buddy had any Idea that he might miss this combo with $50,000 on the line he would have played and easy safety here by rolling the eight to the short rail and laying the cue ball right on top of the nine ball forcing Lebron to kick by going up table and back.
The cue ball is close enough to the eight ball to have complete control of that safety. That would pretty much insure the win.

I won't repeat what I've said previously (suffice it to say I believe it was a dump), but I disagree very strongly with playing safe in this position. If we are to believe Rempe this combo is an 85% make (under normal conditions who knows how high it is here?). There is no way in hxxl I'm letting a top professional back to the table without shooting at the money here! Against a mere mortal your strategy would be smart, but how many times have you seen a top professional come to the table with a hopeless kick, only to turn it completely around? Getting ball in hand is not likely with these people (even though it did happen in this game, but it was really fishy anyways). Any kind of hit on the ball could leave you with a lower percentage shot. That's why the pros almost always favor running out (or in this case shooting at the money) when they have a reasonably high percentage shot on the ball.

There is also the psychology to consider. I wouldn't feel as bad losing the game because I missed the combination as I would playing safe and having my opponent steal the game. At least I shot at the money.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

MahnaMahna & JB will have some time to chill out.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

agreed, Roberta.
let's bring it full circle & back to kharma....

that WAS.
this IS.
NEXT?

my beef w/ Buddy, is based on our conversation, etc @ Mosconi, on behalf of the $3K AZBers who contributed, per JA's request, via BigTruck, with non-gratis, etc.

and if MY NAME were being slung through the AZB mud, as a business person (i use that term loosely), i would ABSOLUTELY make a statement, IN MY DEFENSE, or OWNERSHIP.

you either takie it to your grave - or cleanse. it's part of The 12 Steps.


.

He doesn't post on here that I'm aware of, he does have a Facebook account but doesn't post very often at all. He has said through at least one person that posted on here that he didn't do it. I wouldn't imagine this is very high on his priority list right now since he just lost his wife.

It's been my experience however, when people talk they're going to say whatever they want to about you & it doesn't really matter if you refute it or not. I've never been one to worry about what people say about me personally especially if it's not true, I wouldn't feel the need to declare my innocence; it's not going to stop people talking so why bother. I know my karma is just fine & everyone else's is their concern, not mine.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Not talking bad about people we are talking about the actions of people.

Also we are not behind anyone's back,we are in a public forum and most of us are not anonymous.

I was just addressing the irony of JB's being accused of the supposed talking behind Wilson's back on Facebook but nobody seeming to have a problem with talking behind Buddy's & everyone else's backs on here.

 

[AtLarge]

Out of curiosity how easy would it be to get the full stats on this match to compare to other buddy matches? You would have to get a large sample size to draw a "stat conclusion" but it would be interesting to compare.

ATLARGE - got a few minutes? i'l give you $1.00.

That wouldn't prove anything as to intent.

 

[JoeyInCali]

MahnaMahna & JB will have some time to chill out.

Uh oh.
I can see JB going off at FB now. Lol

 

[Neil]

He doesn't post on here that I'm aware of, he does have a Facebook account but doesn't post very often at all. He has said through at least one person that posted on here that he didn't do it. I wouldn't imagine this is very high on his priority list right now since he just lost his wife.

It's been my experience however, when people talk they're going to say whatever they want to about you & it doesn't really matter if you refute it or not. I've never been one to worry about what people say about me personally especially if it's not true, I wouldn't feel the need to declare my innocence; it's not going to stop people talking so why bother. I know my karma is just fine & everyone else's is their concern, not mine.

Wonder if any else sees the irony of you posting in a dump thread with that avatar and talking about karma?

 

[KRJ]

If Jay can prove it beyond doubt then he should. Why does he need 10k? that's awfully mercenary.

For the sake of argument take Jay's statement out. Let's assume that you never heard it and you're a juror.

Does it still look like a dump to you? Could you put Buddy Hall and the other six player in prison based on the video alone?

JB, this is NOT a criminal trial. Thus, being an internet forum, the best we should be using here are the rules used in a civil trial. Thus, we don't need "beyond a reasonable doubt", thus, only a "preponderance of the evidence" shall/should be used for the AZB proceedings.

Basically, which side has the more convincing evidence, not the most evidence, but the more convincing evidence. So, in other words, which event is more likely to have occurred. I'd say you would have to be 51% sure on one side or the other before you reach a "verdict" either way, and hundreds of thousands of civil cases are settled each year with this system.

Right now, you have not presented all that much evidence other than your personal opinion.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Wonder if any else sees the irony of you posting in a dump thread with that avatar and talking about karma?

What irony would that be? If you have something to say about Rodney I suggest you say it to him. I merely have a picture with a long time friend as my avatar & don't really care what anyone thinks about it.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

 

[gregcantrall]

Cool

MahnaMahna & JB will have some time to chill out.

Ah relief at last.:thumbup:

The first time I watched the match was when it was aired on TV by ESPN. I had no notion of a dump.
I had just watched a documentary about the $64,000 Question game show that was rigged and I remembered the expression on the contestants face when he was forced to give the wrong answer to a question that he did know the answer to. His expression just screamed "Why are they making me miss such an easy question!"
When Buddy missed the final combination he had that same look. That convinced me something was up. A week later I was told by a friend that it was a dump. I said "I knew that."

Now that the video's are on youtube, I have reviewed them and marvel at all of the Hollywood going on after each miss by both Buddy and David. They obviously did not go to acting school.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I was just addressing the irony of JB's being accused of the supposed talking behind Wilson's back on Facebook.

Roberta, the irony behind this, at least for myself, was that John is active on both sites.
He claims to be an outspoken person who isn't afraid to tell it like it is, to anyone.

Well, if he had something to say to or about Dave, why do it over on his FB page where Dave isn't likely to read it.

Why not start a thread on AZ and confront Dave on his Home Turf.

The fact that Buddy seldom posts on FB and never on AZ, well, that is his choice isn't it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm not sure if this is typical, or unusual, it just ended up this way.

And just as a follow-up comment, this means that Wiley and Villarreal, as well as the losers Ortmann and A. Fisher, were actually playing their singles event finals for a $50,000 difference (the losers got $10,000) with the possibility of $20,000 more. That's really where the big money was on the line.

So, yes, CJ Wiley has played a race to 7 for $50,000 or more.

Yes, those races to 7 were had some significant pressure attached.

The 'Battle of the Sexes' between Vivian and I was for $60,000 First and $40,000 Second, however, as you mentioned it was really the matches before that made the most difference. I played Earl Strickland in the Semis and Oliver Ortmann in the Finals - both these players had won several world 9 Ball and Oliver even had a major Straight Pool Title to his credit (along with several 9/8-Ball Titles).

So the Finals with Oliver was $20,000 First plus the $60,000 totalled $80,000 compared to $10,000 for 2nd - a $70,000 difference!!! I'm glad I wasn't analyzing it at the time it really wasn't about the money, I was in the frame of mind to "perform to win," and except whatever outcome resulted.

By the way, I made no savers in any of my ESPN matches (and was in the finals three years in a row). I'm not sure if this is typical, or unusual, it just ended up this way.

 

[KRJ]

You have action. 100 good league players for $100 per try. Have to make both shots, the 8 and the combo. We pay off on the difference.

Let's do this at the upcoming BCAPL event with a 9ft table. You come on out and we will get it set up.

I think the majority of good league will players will dog one or both of those shots with one shot to do it.

JB, here is your original proposal. You say that a majority of good league players will dog one or both shots. I say they won't.

Yet, now suddenly when I accept, you say there is not way to "duplicate the pressure" and until that time you cannot bet it.

If you don't want action, then don't offer it. That seems pretty fair. I'm assuming you thought I'd duck and run once you began barking about $100 a head.

C'mon JB, you said good league players can't make both shots, and I say they can. There's always pressue when at the table, especailly if we live stream this. And these guys are NOT professionals, and one can assume they'd be under more pressue than one of the best pool players on the planet, regardless of the amounts involved.

So, if you we're just barking, that's fine, just say so, and the bet is off and I'll never mention it again. If not, let's do this

 

[Spimp13]

So, if you we're just barking, that's fine, just say so, and the bet is off and I'll never mention it again.

He might not respond to this for awhile.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Roberta, the irony behind this, at least for myself, was that John is active on both sites.
He claims to be an outspoken person who isn't afraid to tell it like it is, to anyone.

Well, if he had something to say to or about Dave, why do it over on his FB page where Dave isn't likely to read it.

Why not start a thread on AZ and confront Dave on his Home Turf.

The fact that Buddy seldom posts on FB and never on AZ, well, that is his choice isn't it.

I get that point. The same could be said of the accusations against Buddy. Since he doesn't post here but does on Facebook, people should be posting this stuff there on his page where he could respond if he chose to instead of here.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

 

[KRJ]

I get that point. The same could be said of the accusations against Buddy. Since he doesn't post here but does on Facebook, people should be posting this stuff there on his page where he could respond if he chose to instead of here.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

I think we are going to the extremes here. We are having a discussion. I'm sure when they talk about steriods on some baseball site they don't invite McGuire, Bonds and Rodriquez to stop by and give their side. Anyone from the CofC is free to stop by as well.

The difference here is nobody is saying anything bad about the "Vegas 7". If this were true, it was a scam from almost 25 years ago, and it appears did not damage the game of pool, nor caused any injury to anyone, and "dumping" was a huge part of pool for, oh I don't know, forever

If Vegas lost a few bucks, too bad for them. Buddy is a HOF'er, a cool dude and a class act..... and nothing short of murder or rape is gonna change my opinion of the man.

The only folks that could b1tch about it were the ones that bet on someone other than LeBron, and I'm thinking there were only a few, if any, that did that.... but hey, they knew coming in what to expect

 

[RobertaAgnor]

I think we are going to the extremes here. We are having a discussion. I'm sure when they talk about steriods on some baseball site they don't invite McGuire, Bonds and Rodriquez to stop by and give their side. Anyone from the CofC is free to stop by as well.

The difference here is nobody is saying anything bad about the "Vegas 7". If this were true, it was a scam from almost 25 years ago, and it appears did not damage the game of pool, nor caused any injury to anyone, and "dumping" was a huge part of pool for, oh I don't know, forever

If Vegas lost a few bucks, too bad for them. Buddy is a HOF'er, a cool dude and a class act..... and nothing short of murder or rape is gonna change my opinion of the man.

The only folks that could b1tch about it were the ones that bet on someone other than LeBron, and I'm thinking there were only a few, if any, that did that.... but hey, they knew coming in what to expect

I understand what you're saying. I was just pointing out the double standard is all. Y'all should know by now that I greatly enjoy discussions & debates on here.

 

[justadub]

I get that point. The same could be said of the accusations against Buddy. Since he doesn't post here but does on Facebook, people should be posting this stuff there on his page where he could respond if he chose to instead of here.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

It would make for a pretty quiet discussion forum if folks couldn't discuss what the big names in the industry did, unless those being discussed participated on the forum.

If we follow that line of reasoning, we couldn't discuss any pro save for Mike D, CJ, John Brumback and Chris Bartram. A few others I may have missed.

And while I understand your distaste for this and other similar discussions, (and i share that view upon occasion, tho not necessarily this time) if the forum only allowed sunshine and roses, it wouldn't really be a discussion board. It would be a fan club.

 

[KRJ]

I understand what you're saying. I was just pointing out the double standard is all. Y'all should know by now that I greatly enjoy discussions & debates on here.

Yeah, I know... gotta spend less time in NPR and more here... much friendlier crowd