Charlie Williams Ego Maniac?

I love to read stats like that, and players histories against each other.

I thought it was one of the most interesting news from that tournament, because I didn't expect that Charlie would win it, and I was surprised by the fact that he has beaten Alex 4 out of 4 times.

Also nice of Charlie to say that he considered Alex a way better player than himself, and that he would never play a race to 100 against Alex.

Way to go Charlie - and thanks for a great tournament!!!
 
JAM said:
There is no doubt about it that Charlie Williams has a track record, and I saw a lot of it, right there with you, Rich R., and it wasn't pretty! :o

JAM, I know you have seen it, along with me. You probably have seen some of it from a closer perspective.

I won't go into details here, but I'm sure you remember a certain tournament where you first met Keith. That was a great tournament. I was told directly, by one of the people involved in promoting that tournament, that it was Charlie's threats that led them to give up on that tournament. The pool community lost a great event because of Charlie.

Yes, Charlie has moved on and he is producing some quality events. But I have to wonder how many bodies he has left along the way?
 
Rich R. said:
JAM, I know you have seen it, along with me. You probably have seen some of it from a closer perspective.

I won't go into details here, but I'm sure you remember a certain tournament where you first met Keith. That was a great tournament. I was told directly, by one of the people involved in promoting that tournament, that it was Charlie's threats that led them to give up on that tournament. The pool community lost a great event because of Charlie.

Yes, Charlie has moved on and he is producing some quality events. But I have to wonder how many bodies he has left along the way?

No question about it, Rich R. I agee with you, 100 percent, too! Many players have been hurt, professionally and financially, because of some ill-thought-out decisions made by the UPA leadership at that time. I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER forget how I felt at that one event you are speaking about. It was degrading, humiliating, and discrimination at its finest.

We as a pool community have lost some great events in recent times. Some of them were a direct result of the UPA trying to strong-arm the independnet promoters. These independent promoters threw the towel in because it wasn't worth it anymore, not to mention that these events turned out to be huge financial losses.

It is just too damn tough to keep up with today's prices for independent promoters. The Glass City Open is another huge loss to the pool community. The pool public whined and moaned about being charged a fee to watch the events. Meanwhile, the independent promoter(s) not only did not make any huge profits, but most times they were stuck. I cannot recall if they ever broke even.

You and I are singing from the same song sheet. We both want professional pool to grow and thrive. The success of pool as a whole doesn't wear flags on its back. We are all caught in this together, but the great dilemma of our time is that we are not structured. It is almost a Westphalian system, if you will, here in the States, with Canadian and Filipino players representing America in some events, and other events, they represent another country.

A structure has to be in place where players can have their voices heard, where decisions are made. This recent move by the BCA yanking the authority from the UPA is not one that I understand fully. The BCA hasn't done much for professional pool in the past. And I still am not a fan of the WPA one bit.

Each tournament today is like a Commedia dell'arte. There is no uniformity in the picking and choosing which players will perform. Sometimes it is which player has the stakehorse, and other times, it's at the sole discretion of the promoter. The BCA Open is a joke, IMHO, the way it has been held in the past. I look forward to this year's event as being an improvement. Time will tell.

JAM
 
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Do you guys remember seeing those goofy Dragon Promotions commercials during some of the past televised tournaments? They would show Thorsten say something and below him was the caption "Straight pool champion" (or something like that). Then Rodney Morris would talk with a caption below him "US Open Champion". When Charlie said something he had a caption that read: "#1 Asian/American pool player".

I really wish I could have been around for the Asian/American championships!!!:D
 
easy-e said:
... When Charlie said something he had a caption that read: "#1 Asian/American pool player".

I really wish I could have been around for the Asian/American championships!!!:D

Eric,

Don't be a hater, bro.

Ralf Souquet is the number 1 ranked bald pool player - Darryl Peach is #2.

Alex Pagulayan is the #1 ranked Asian-Canadian player.

I guess I'm the #1 ranked player with Parkinson's Disease.

:rolleyes:
 
Blackjack said:
Eric,

Ralf Souquet is the number 1 ranked bald pool player - Darryl Peach is #2.

Alex Pagulayan is the #1 ranked Asian-Canadian player.

I guess I'm the #1 ranked player with Parkinson's Disease.

:rolleyes:

I'm the #1 ranked "Over 250lb, body hair covering 93% of his body, semi lazy-eyed, can't control his gas, last pocket 8-ball player"

<------------------Taking all challengers who qualify.
 
RELATIVE WORTH

$15,000 in 1970 - Relative Worth in 2007= $83,952 or

What you can purchase for $15,000 in 2007, you could purchase for $2,722.12 in 1970.

(From the Inflation Calculator)
 
JAM said:
Pool in the United States is a rich man's high.

JAM


I agree with everything you said up to that point. Some consider me rich(I personally dont), but thats besids the point. From my perspective its a shame that the payouts are the same amount of dollars not adjusted for inflation. I took a long time away from the pool scene-played at home, built a biz etc. I went to a tournment at the Normandy Casino a little over a year ago saw alot of the same faces I knew since 85 and when I saw 1st place was $10,000 I was shocked, it was bad enough for top players in the late 80's to eek out a living but now $10,000 might be ok for one guy and the others are gonna be in the red with expensis. A player would litterly have to win every tournment to make it now and no one can do that. Its a shame.

But a "Rich mans high" :confused: :confused: :confused: I dont get it. Someones net worth or income has nothing to do with the sad state of affairs in pro pool now, hell the sad state it was in 20 years ago for that matter. I have no Idea how to solve the problem either. But it aint no high I promise you that, its never a high to see people put their heart and soul and everything else into anything and come up short, BTW i'm self made so I know what its like to struggle, 75% of my life I was on short $$$.
 
Blackjack said:
Eric,

Don't be a hater, bro.

Ralf Souquet is the number 1 ranked bald pool player - Darryl Peach is #2.

Alex Pagulayan is the #1 ranked Asian-Canadian player.

I guess I'm the #1 ranked player with Parkinson's Disease.

:rolleyes:

I'm the #1 player that cant play!!!!:D
 
You know, i really don't want to rehash what i know.

It really serves no purpose at this point.

BUT DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU!!!
If you do a search and include the UPA and Charlie Williams, i'm sure you can find many links on here that can clarify the details and history of his actions.

Egomaniac? I prefer Narcissistic.

Look at some of the criteria. (From DSM IV)

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

(From Mayo Clinic Journal)
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may also seek out others you think have the same special talents, power and qualities ? people you see as equals. You may insist on having "the best" of everything ? the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.

But underneath all this grandiosity often lies a very fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.

Now don't get me wrong as i have seen Charlie be the nicest guy. Fun loving, joking and playful with his friends, but i have also been witness to that other person who people criticize.

Just look up the links and I'm sure you will have enough to answer your question.
 
The prize money was a little top heavy at the Predator 10-Ball Championships. I would have recommended that first place pay $15,000, second would remain $7,500, and that way third and fourth could get $5,000. A minor adjustment but it would look a lot better to the players. They will make "saver's" to adjust things anyway.

But more importantly, EVERYONE got paid! And they have in all of Charlie's events! I have known Charlie a long time, and found him to be an ambitious promoter of pool, a humble pool player, a gentleman always, and most importantly HONEST! He has never lied to me about anything he has done or planned to do.

Yes, some of his decisions as a promoter (like the prize money breakdown), I might have done differently. But that is his discretion to do things in the way he sees fit, if he is putting the time and money into producing an event.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
You know, i really don't want to rehash what i know.

It really serves no purpose at this point.

BUT DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU!!!
If you do a search and include the UPA and Charlie Williams, i'm sure you can find many links on here that can clarify the details and history of his actions.

Egomaniac? I prefer Narcissistic.

.

S-star,
I guess I will have to disagree with many here. On the few occasions that I have met Charlie he has been extremely polite and professional - even though I am definitely a "nobody". He has been very self-deprecating about his game since he has chosen to pursue business rather than tournament play. He seems to be a very aggressive businessman; but remember the pool world is a very rugged place to make a living; and he seems to be succeeding. In addition, he has enough "game" to beat anybody anytime.

While I doubt that any pool promoter will ever satisfy all fans and players; Charlie is doing more than most.

P.S. - your "diagnosis" of narcissism is far off base; far enough to just be considered a personal attack.
 
I have not done any business wit hCharlie and so I have no idea on how he conducts himself in that arena. What I do know is that Charlie has promoted more events than anyone I can think of, I could be wrong and I am sure that someone will correct me on that. However as a smalltime up and coming promoter myself I know how hard it is to make even small events happen let alone something like the Predator 10 ball. Sometimes in business you have to play hard ball to ensure the success of your event and that is maybe what he has done. Someone also called him greedy or something like that, well this is how he makes his living maybe he is just doing what he needs to do to payhis mortgage I can't blame a guy for that. The last thing is the comment about narcissism, he is a promoter and needs to be out there so that everyone knows who he is and new sponsors outside the industry will give him more face time as a result of his past achievements. Again Charlie and I know each other but we are far from good friends, I am just saying how I see it and I hope to become as good of a promoter as he has been over the years. I think we should all be thanking him for what he has done. Ok go ahead it's time to flame me I guess.
 
You all can do your own searches, and come to your own conclusions.
Unless the threads are too old and have been deleted, you can find out for yourself based on those threads.

That is not to say that Charlie is a bad person. Quite the contrary, but he can exhibit questionable behavior, completely inappropriate for a man in his position.
There is no question about this.

I'm sure that there are people on this forum and in the pool world that can give examples ot BOTH sides of argument.

If you haven't experienced the side that you haven't seen, does not mean that it does not exist.

I have seen BOTH sides in action. The good and the bad.
It is what it is.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
You all can do your own searches, and come to your own conclusions.
Unless the threads are too old and have been deleted, you can find out for yourself based on those threads.

That is not to say that Charlie is a bad person. Quite the contrary, but he can exhibit questionable behavior, completely inappropriate for a man in his position.
There is no question about this.

I'm sure that there are people on this forum and in the pool world that can give examples ot BOTH sides of argument.

If you haven't experienced the side that you haven't seen, does not mean that it does not exist.

I have seen BOTH sides in action. The good and the bad.
It is what it is.

SUPERSTAR, since I know who you are, I can honestly state that I don't think many of the readers of this forum walked in your shoes. They would have no comprehension of what you are talking about, unless they had seen with their own eyes what you did. Even reading about it on this forum would not provide a complete understanding of what actually happened and how it affected the aspiring pros and pros during that era.

And it all started with Earl! :D

JAM
 
easy-e said:
I'm the #1 ranked "Over 250lb, body hair covering 93% of his body, semi lazy-eyed, can't control his gas, last pocket 8-ball player"

<------------------Taking all challengers who qualify.

You're on ~~~!!!!!!! Let the woofing begin....:D

Russ
 
Fatboy said:
But a "Rich mans high" :confused: :confused: :confused: I dont get it.....But it aint no high I promise you that...

lol, Fatboy... You are the perfect example of a rich man using his $$$ to get high off pool :) You may be a world beater in that arena! I'd do it too /shrug



BTW i'm self made so I know what its like to struggle, 75% of my life I was on short $$$.

Quit apologizing for having money. The people who require you to make excuses for having cash will never be your friends anyways...


.................
 
CaptiveBred said:
.................


i aint high on anything but morphine, and i aint appologising to anyone for making $$$, anyone who has a problem with me having $$$ can blow me, I made that statment to validate my post as not everyone here knows me or whats going on. I dont have some ego thing that I think everyone gives a shit about me-infact its the oppsite.
 
Charlie Williams

The man is a gantleman. He has been respectful to me as a fan, he has brought around the best 14.1 action I have ever seen and he has even given me a few Predator items to take home to the guys in my pool room.

Charlie is mild mannered and respectful; that is my direct experience. If he is woofing or gloating over a win against Alex, it is likely an effort to promote the sport.

I saw Hopkins and Sigel and Hohman and Harriman put up monster 100 plus runs at Charlie's World Straight Pool championship tournament. It is happening again this summer and I'll be there. The man has brought world class pool to many of us. I for one am grateful
 
JAM said:
No question about it, Rich R. I agee with you, 100 percent, too! Many players have been hurt, professionally and financially, because of some ill-thought-out decisions made by the UPA leadership at that time. I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER forget how I felt at that one event you are speaking about. It was degrading, humiliating, and discrimination at its finest.

I think we may be referring to different events. The UPA wasn't involved with the first year of that event. If there were any of the problems you are referring to, I have no knowledge of them. That first year, the event went well, as far as I know.
In the second year of the event, the UPA came into the picture and everything went down hill quickly. During the planning stages for the third year, the UPA reared its ugly head again and the promoters threw in the towel.


We as a pool community have lost some great events in recent times. Some of them were a direct result of the UPA trying to strong-arm the independnet promoters. These independent promoters threw the towel in because it wasn't worth it anymore, not to mention that these events turned out to be huge financial losses.

Just to be clear, the event I was referring to made money in its first year. The promoters planned to continue. It was the UPA involvement that ran them out of the pool business.

It is just too damn tough to keep up with today's prices for independent promoters. The Glass City Open is another huge loss to the pool community. The pool public whined and moaned about being charged a fee to watch the events. Meanwhile, the independent promoter(s) not only did not make any huge profits, but most times they were stuck. I cannot recall if they ever broke even.

If promoters put on a good tournament, the fans must pay their way. Expecting a free tournament is totally unreasonable.

You and I are singing from the same song sheet. We both want professional pool to grow and thrive. The success of pool as a whole doesn't wear flags on its back. We are all caught in this together, but the great dilemma of our time is that we are not structured. It is almost a Westphalian system, if you will, here in the States, with Canadian and Filipino players representing America in some events, and other events, they represent another country.

Pool has become a truly international sport. I only wish some sponsors would realize that and put up the necessary money to support pool in a similar manner to other sports.

A structure has to be in place where players can have their voices heard, where decisions are made. This recent move by the BCA yanking the authority from the UPA is not one that I understand fully. The BCA hasn't done much for professional pool in the past. And I still am not a fan of the WPA one bit.

Each tournament today is like a Commedia dell'arte. There is no uniformity in the picking and choosing which players will perform. Sometimes it is which player has the stakehorse, and other times, it's at the sole discretion of the promoter. The BCA Open is a joke, IMHO, the way it has been held in the past. I look forward to this year's event as being an improvement. Time will tell.

JAM
If I understand it correctly, the WPA is the world organization in charge of pool, whether we like it or not. The WPA sanctioned the BCA to govern pool in the U.S. Then the BCA sanctioned the UPA to do the rankings. However, the UPA was only ranking UPA member players, competing in UPA sanctioned events, and those were the only players being chosen for world events. This was not fair to players who did not belong to the UPA.
At this point, the BCA has taken the authority for the rankings back from the UPA and is going to create a ranking system to include all players, UPA member or not, and all major events.
If I'm wrong about this, I welcome a correction from someone in the know.
 
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