Constructive critique

[J.S.]

First post, so here it goes... (sorry, but this might be rather long)

Last weekend I was playing at my local pool hall. They have these weekly handicapped events. For me, entering the event is about getting to know the local pool scene (resentely relocated), having fun and hoping to develop my game. Having won one and lost two, I was out of the tournament. I stuck around to watch the games, hoping to learn by watching some of the better players -and at my level I've plenty to learn.

Two of the best players were facing off, and I was keen to watch the game (8-ball, btw). These guys are pretty much total opposites to one another. One is very methodical player, rarely takes any changes, nothing flashy. The other likes to move the cue ball around the table, take a risky shot now and then, etc. Both are capable of stringing several racks together. You get the picture.

The methodical player gets on the hill first. The other guy, however, is on the table and clearly on the way to running out. He misses position on his last ball, and can't close. The guy on the hill has the table and runs out. The guy losing complains about the table not playing right, doesn't shake hands, packs his stuff and leaves.

The room owner is rather angry about the guy blaiming the table. The tables are GC IV, and play pretty solid. I have spent some time talking to the owner, and it is clear that he takes pride in his business (tables are clean, balls clean, relatively new cloth, etc.). He is - understandably - insulted.

My point here - if there is any - is, that 1) why do good players feel the need to put the blaim on, say, equipment?, 2) why do we take our pool halls for granted? These establishments make it possible for us to enjoy the game. And 3) why is it that we more often critique the equipment than give credit for a well maintained pool hall?

J.S.

 

[mosconiac]

Ego is a powerful drug. Much easier to blame...the equipment...your cue...the chalk...the guy talking over there...your bad day at work...than it is to accept that you failed to execute. BTDT.

BTW, my local poolhall changed owners recently & they've invested in new cushions & cloth. They even bought a new set of balls for the ring games. I've taken several opportunities to thank them for caring for the players. It goes a long to keeping them happy & to keeping the players happy.

 

[incognito]

1) why do good players feel the need to put the blaim on, say, equipment?, 2) why do we take our pool halls for granted? These establishments make it possible for us to enjoy the game. And 3) why is it that we more often critique the equipment than give credit for a well maintained pool hall?

J.S.

1) Sometimes the equipment is bad and does cause you to lose. Sometimes the equipment is just as substandard as, say, this message board's quote feature. :grin: That thing pisses me off every time I try to quote somebody and it's not my fault that it's so cumbersome and non user friendly. Having said that, people often look for excuses to justify their bad play. I do it a lot. Based on what you said, I think the guy was just looking for an excuse to lose rather than blame himself.

2) I expect the pool rooms I play at on a regular basis to at least take good care of and maintain their equipment. If they don't, screw em, I go somewhere else.

3) Lots of equipment I've played on has been horribly maintained. Probably more for the worse than the better.

 

[GoTulane]

Some people just like to complain

Players sometimes just like to hear their own voice, and hide the real reasons of why they lost. It is easy to blame the equipment, since it cannot talk back. Everyone is gonna lose sometime, and how you react to the loss is what makes you a good/great player, or just another schmo that can chalk a cue.
I have lost plenty of times, but I do not let it get to me. I think about what I could have done better, and where my biggest mistakes took place, and how I can change that in a future game to ensure a better result. You have to learn from your losses to get better, anything else is not helpful and will not allow improvement. And don't we all want to become better pool players. Some people cannot admit their weaknesses, but you can only get better when you understand them, and practice to improve them.
For example, I lost in the last week of our APA session to a player I should have beaten like a red-headed step child. We were playing away from our home bar, and I needed the win to ensure our team making the playoffs, and I just was not on my game. So I was playing my game knowing where my shooting ability was that night(5 on a 10 scale), just not trying to make stupid mistakes and take all shots that are high percentage. The other player was playing well, but I got to Hill-Hill with the break. I had 4 balls left to get on the 8 ball and win, but I had a touchy shot in the side to set up the run. Down in stroke, I was in shooting motion when a non-team player at the bar dropped in front of the pocket and screamed while leaving the bar. I barely missed the shot, and the other player ran out to win. The other team laughed at the situation, and I was angry since I do not usually get affected by sharking, but I did not show it. My team was angry also, but what good would complaining do? In hindsight, I should have immediately stood up, and re-set my shot, but I didn't. MY FAULT - NOBODY ELSE'S, and in the future I will make sure to reset.

I learned something from that match, and the other team will also. We went on to still make playoffs, and qualify for our regional event in 2 weeks - gonna win that trip to Vegas!!!! The other team did not make playoffs or regionals, and they are in our new summer session. And I can't wait to see them - their house or ours. Because my game, and my team's abilities will be poised and ready to drag their skulls on the table. Since that is where the game needs to be played.
We learned that night, and they will get their lesson in the future.

Michael

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Mosconiac hit it on the head: ego.

This is explained in wonderful detail in the book "The Pleasure of Small Motions". How we in the sport of pool, for the very most part, want to be known for our prowess at the table. And so this guy, who is likely no exception, when he got beat he took it as a knock on where he stands in the pool pecking order, and it's always less of a self-indictment to point to something other than ourselves for our failures.

Wish I had a nickel for every time I saw someone completely dog a shot then start examining their tip like it was the tips fault.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[ShootingArts]

human nature

First, welcome to AZB!

mosconiac is right, it is simply human nature to blame our shortcomings on something outside ourselves. I have competed at probably a dozen different things over the years and there is always a fair number of people blaming everything but themselves for their failings. In response to this I usually complain about the warped cue ball when folks complain to me about playing poorly. Funny how many people pick up the cue ball and study it!

A quick story about excuses, we were shooting rifles outdoors in my second event, one large enough to draw shooters from across the country. We were treated to three days of South Louisiana weather, inches of rain every day, gusty swirling winds. Near the end of the third day another shooter that knew I was a beginner commented, "bet you learned a lot this weekend didn't you?"

"Yeah I did. I thought I'd learned an excuse for everything until I fired that last group!"

Getting serious again, don't hang around when people are complaining. It is terrible for your mental game.

Hu

First post, so here it goes...
My point here - if there is any - is, that 1) why do good players feel the need to put the blaim on, say, equipment?, 2) why do we take our pool halls for granted? These establishments make it possible for us to enjoy the game. And 3) why is it that we more often critique the equipment than give credit for a well maintained pool hall?

J.S.

 

[easy-e]

The guy is a first class butt-hole. To blame the table, then not shake your opoonents hand because of it is really lame. He's a bad sport, and you really shouldn't be learning anything from this ass-hat.

 

[Keith Buck]

1) why do good players feel the need to put the blaim on, say, equipment?

J.S.

It's just human nature for some people to look for something other than themselves to blame, lol.

Just watch tennis and see how the players check their racket and test/adjust their strings after hitting a bad shot or a golfer look at his club and maybe clean some dirt (real or imaginary) from the club head after a bad shot.

 

[Bigtruck]

Sometimes it is the equipment. I was hill hill in the finals of local 9 ball tourny. I had 3 balls for the win. Rolled the cue ball towards the third diamond. The table rolls off 3" into the side pocket!

My opponent and I both shook our heads in disbelief. Certainly wasn't his fault. I shook hands and still congratulated him on his tournament. I did tell the owner about the table and thanked them for having the tourny.

Ray

 

[Ponytail]

Accepting one's own short comings is often too much for some people. It's so much easier to tell yourself that it wasn't your fault you missed shape, it was the tables fault, or your opponent was getting all the rolls, or you don't play good on the second Tuesday of the month when there's a new moon, and it's after 10:15. You get the drift...

The room owner should also know that people will blame anything, rather than admit they flubbed the shot/shape, and to take the table comment with a grain of salt.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

It's personalities J.S. Everybody's got one, be they good, bad, or indifferent. Take the good with the bad, I always say, sometimes.
It is kind fun though to imagine what the world would be like if it was filled with people like me and SA, for example. Free lunches. Five cent cigars. A Hooter's on every corner with complimentary onion rings. Poolhalls with free table time for One Pocket players. What a wonderful world it would be. :wink:

 

[Siz]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree with what others have said - it's human nature - found everywhere. Even chess players are known to come up with excuses for losing a match, and what can you blame in chess? One of the best was "Studied a book on how to beat Bobby Fischer: was unprepared for other opponents.":rotflmao1:

 

[J.S.]

Ego for sure

Yep, ego is propably one contributing factor here; the guy is used to winning these weekly events and most likely feels that he should have won this one. That being said, nothing justifies that kind of behavior. You feel the cushion gave a hard bump? Ok, you can mentionion it once, and in a constructive manner, but don't rant about it and behave like an a$$. You rarely lose because of one shot. IMO, these tables are the best we've got in the region (Brunswick GC IV) and give very little reason to complain.

What I was thinking was, could one reason for the outburst be in their different approaches to the game? I mean, they clearly represent the very opposite ends of the continuum as for the style of play. Could it have been, that losing to a player whose style of play you don't appreciate added to the bitterness of defeat?

J.S.

 

[ShootingArts]

certainly could be a factor

Yep, ego is propably one contributing factor here; the guy is used to winning these weekly events and most likely feels that he should have won this one. That being said, nothing justifies that kind of behavior. You feel the cushion gave a hard bump? Ok, you can mentionion it once, and in a constructive manner, but don't rant about it and behave like an a$$. You rarely lose because of one shot. IMO, these tables are the best we've got in the region (Brunswick GC IV) and give very little reason to complain.

What I was thinking was, could one reason for the outburst be in their different approaches to the game? I mean, they clearly represent the very opposite ends of the continuum as for the style of play. Could it have been, that losing to a player whose style of play you don't appreciate added to the bitterness of defeat?
J.S.

This certainly could have been a factor. Almost all serious competitors hate to lose but when you lose to great play you can somewhat accept it wasn't your day. When you lose to play that you felt was inferior then it makes for a really bad day.

Funny thing, some people consistently lose to someone else in heads up competition and still feel they are the better player due to different styles, perhaps exactly what happened here. I always consider the total package. Just like a boxer with an awkward style can be hard to beat, a player that constantly runs into half the balls on the table can make it hard to settle into a rhythm. Somebody that runs the balls all around the table is going to scratch more but they are also going to luck in more balls than a more conservative player. This is a consistent factor in their game and has to be considered when deciding how to play them. Some people play with style and grace, some seem like a loose cannon but their level of play may be equal. Failing to properly rate another player's speed can certainly make you even more unhappy to lose to them than you might otherwise be.

Hu

 

[CK6Speed]

I've played on tables that definitely had odd rolls. Slow roll the cue ball and it moves to the left, then moves back to the right, sometimes curls away from the pocket. Either way though I feel its just something you need to adapt too. The table plays exactly the same for both players so the advantage is only to the player that can adapt quicker.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Those guys might have some history which is why they didn't shake hands. I sure don't shake hands, say good game or good luck to people that I dislike or have negative thoughts on. All I say is "push" while I play those people. As long as he didn't lash out at the guy or pull a move I have no problem with the way he treated him. Maybe the table did roll bad or maybe he played the shot wrong. Either way I don't feel like a paying customer is being gifted anything by patronizing an establishment.

If you went to a movie theater and the picture was blurry and the film cut in and out intermittently but you had a passion for films is it a crime to critique a theater that you frequent? I don't think so. Often times players are left with too few places to play so would you rather quit pool or play somewhere thats sub par, most die hards would choose the latter. End of the day if you pay your money somewhere you are not being gifted anything. You are paying for a service and it seems like pool halls somehow get excluded from scrutiny but people complain about bad food, dirty aisles, and customer service nightmares freely. Don't add up to this stupid guy.

 

[J.S.]

End of the day if you pay your money somewhere you are not being gifted anything. You are paying for a service and it seems like pool halls somehow get excluded from scrutiny but people complain about bad food, dirty aisles, and customer service nightmares freely. Don't add up to this stupid guy.

Not saying the guy is stupid, I just think he could've carried himself a bit different on this occasion. As for paying for a service and expecting to get your moneys worth, I totally agree with you. If the table had a roll, or the wall bounced a bit hard, you have a right to complain. How you do this is the thing. The guy saying "these tables are crap" doen't really make the owner want to listen. Instead, giving the owner constructive critizism, like "you know, it's nice to have clean balls and a fresh cloth. Have you noticed that that wall seems to bounce hard? Can you come and take a look at this?" might actually work.

It's in the little things, imo. Of course, when you've just lost you are propably not in the correct emotinal state to give feedback. If the tables are bad, you have every right to say it. It's just in the way you say it that in my opinion makes the difference.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Not saying the guy is stupid, I just think he could've carried himself a bit different on this occasion. As for paying for a service and expecting to get your moneys worth, I totally agree with you. If the table had a roll, or the wall bounced a bit hard, you have a right to complain. How you do this is the thing. The guy saying "these tables are crap" doen't really make the owner want to listen. Instead, giving the owner constructive critizism, like "you know, it's nice to have clean balls and a fresh cloth. Have you noticed that that wall seems to bounce hard? Can you come and take a look at this?" might actually work.

It's in the little things, imo. Of course, when you've just lost you are propably not in the correct emotinal state to give feedback. If the tables are bad, you have every right to say it. It's just in the way you say it that in my opinion makes the difference.

Some folks need to be coddled and I get that. Some people are brash and brutally honest and some people can take that the wrong way or appreciate that. A good owner though should be able to discern the truth from the nice guy or the rude guy and value both opinions equally and investigate each one. Pride and ego in business, much like pool, will get you busted!