CTE ... the complete story

PJ,

I wish you wouldn't do this. Being condescending and mocking like this makes them even more defensive (although, I know I've been guilty of this before also). I still have hope somebody out there can give a clear, complete, and understandable description and/or demonstration of the version of CTE that works for most shots (without unspoken "adjustments") as reported.

Regards,
Dave

I know I for one would like to have something to work with on CTE. I believe it is working for an awful lot of people and wish there was some working "manual/explanation" to start from. What I have received to date, I do appreciate the effort, but I seem to be missing something. Green for Dr Dave for all he does ....
 
A problem that I have with the CTE or other so called systems is how do they work when you have another ball close to the pocket that you have to get around? Or how do you use it to aim for a carom, combo or bank?

I think systems may work sometimes but they are not anything that I would rely on.

I think the best way is to shoot a lot of balls and just get the feel for where to hit a ball to get it to where you want it to go.

As far as having systems in the old days I have heard a lot about shooting at the light reflections in the balls. Many old timers have told me that when they use to shoot they would use the lights but they can't shoot as good as they use to because of being older, wearing glasses etc. If that system was so great it would still work for them.

Another one is the secret of the pros. Learn the secret that the pros use to aim that they don't want you to know about. I think the reason that they can't tell you is because they don't know of any secret method. They just aim and shoot and can't explain how they do it. It is just a learned "instinct". Just as it is when eating. You don't really think about missing your mouth when eating. It doesn't matter if you are using a fork, glass, cup, can. bottle, etc. You never miss hitting your mouth. Even when you are stoned or in the dark you still get the bottle to you mouth and don't poke yourself in the eye.

Take any sport. It is just consistency and repetition. Do baseball players have a secret method on learning to catch fly balls? They learn from playing a lot and instinctively learn what the direction and trajectory of the ball will be as soon as it leaves the bat and sails in the air.

The key factors in pool are proper stance, grip, stroke and the ability to constantly repeat them just as it is in bowling, golf, etc.

Keep up the good work Dave and thanks for sharing.
 
Spidey,

I think many of the previous threads can be summarized as follows:

Just pivot, and the ball goes in the hole. If you pay a CTE instructor, they can reveal all of the hidden secrets and make you great overnight.

I'm OK with instructors making a living. What I don't like is all of the secrecy. Instructors offer much more value to an individual than magical secrets, IMO.

Regards,
Dave

Hey, don't knock that when people pay for DVDs. You're not banging up on Gene to expose his technique on here, right?

I'm not looking to make money - I don't care about the $. I'm just saying support those who do (or should). Someone should pay Stan Shuffett, Ron Vitello or God-forbid someone should support Hal. If anyone pays me--- I'll pay 100% to Hal.

I see on your website you charge for lessons and sell DVDs and such. What's the difference?

I think there's a double-standard with CTE and that's why my position is what it is. No one on the dissenting side seems to wanna pay for the info as they should so I say.......not my prob.
 
3. If asked, say it's a systematic adjustment (give it a name like "air pivoting" or "shifting edges" if you like) that you won't reveal the steps to because [your reason here] - or that's simply impossible to describe.


[Spidey's reason here]
...that's why I never post anything--- everyone wants to be spoon-fed and no one spoon-fed me.
pj
chgo
......
 
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Anyways, guys.... g'luck in the thread. I think it's beat and dying anyways. As officer Bar Brady would say in South Park...."Move along...keep moving...nothing to see here..."

later...
 
Hey, don't knock that when people pay for DVDs. You're not banging up on Gene to expose his technique on here, right?
I did express my opinions of Gene's stuff in Gene's thread, in a very respectful way. I don't agree with him completely on his approach, but I still think his approach can be helpful to many people. It also seems CTE has helped many people.

I'm not looking to make money - I don't care about the $. I'm just saying support those who do (or should). Someone should pay Stan Shuffett, Ron Vitello or God-forbid someone should support Hal. If anyone pays me--- I'll pay 100% to Hal.
I do support the instructors. I am always encouraging people to work with instructors, and I provide links to many of the well-known instructors on my website:


I also often try to convince people that instructors offer a lot of value beyond just "information." They offer a wealth of experience and an ability to work with an individual and cater to an individual's needs and learning style. And even if the great instructors might not always be great players, they are great teachers.

I see on your website you charge for lessons and sell DVDs and such. What's the difference?
I do have a commercial site (http://dr-dave-billiards.com), where I offer my instructional products, but I do my best to keep my educational resources site (http://billiards.colostate.edu) as commercial-free as possible. I do have links to my commercial site, and I do have links to many of the top instructors, but I have no advertising and no products for sale on this site. In fact, I have denied numerous requests over the years from companies wanting to advertise and offer products on my sites. I refuse because I want to do my best to remain impartial; although, I do offer my stuff for sale (on my commercial site only).

I think there's a double-standard with CTE and that's why my position is what it is.
I don't agree. CTE proponents and users have made many emphatic claims over the years without explaining or substantiating them. We still don't have a simple and clear description of what CTE is and how the "pivot" works for different shots, after many thousand posts in numerous threads over many years. To me, that is ridiculous.

Respectfully,
Dave
 
Spidey....I do not know the extent of time you have invested in using the CTE system, but if your game has not improved to a point where it is better or even as close as Lou's is.... well I will just leave it at that.

Definitely isn't a system that I need looking at then. :smile:

Sorry, I missed this post before I exited the thread... so I should respond briefly.

I was only told Lou played really well from a friend of mine--- what that means, don't know. I can tell you this--- regardless of how he plays, he doesn't have to win at any game outside of 1P because I don't play that... I was merely showing him a little respect based on a friend's opinion.

My speed is pretty well known and I really don't hide anything because I don't gamble -- since I don't need to... I make a decent living without it. As far as you're concerned, how about you make a youtube video of you running some balls since you seem to be a speed expert - and let us see your awesome knowledge. Lou ain't playing Bustamante or even a kid like Landon Shuffett - both are CTE users so your point is retarded. Since you're the odds-on-favorite to be a dog to me, your post is nullified based on your own calculation.
 
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Just curious Spidey, did you ever watch dr.dave's videos? do you find it usefull? Did he ask you to pay for it?
I'm just saying that Dr.Dave seems like a good guy, he doesn't deserve the negative comment after all he has done.
 
Sorry, I missed this post before I exited the thread... so I should respond briefly.

I was only told Lou played really well from a friend of mine--- what that means, don't know. I can tell you this--- regardless of how he plays, he doesn't have to win at any game outside of 1P because I don't play that... I was merely showing him a little respect based on a friend's opinion.

My speed is pretty well known and I really don't hide anything because I don't gamble -- since I don't need to... I make a decent living without it. As far as you're concerned, how about you make a youtube video of you running some balls since you seem to be a speed expert - and let us see your awesome knowledge. Lou ain't playing Bustamante or even a kid like Landon Shuffett - both are CTE users so your point is retarded. Since you're the odds-on-favorite to be a dog to me, your post is nullified based on your own calculation.

Well let me start off by stating the same thing to you as I did in a response to a PM received. (and a little more)

I guess I explained it incorrectly. Doesn't matter if I know how you play, I know how Lou plays. Lou is a very good one pocket player, but if I were placing two people's abilities to each other, I would use 9 ball as a test. I think Lou is a good 9 ball player, but not near the top of the game in his area.

My statement was not actually a criticism against your game, as it was a criticism against all the antagonizing responses from Lou in regards to CTE.

Lou rectified this by humbling himself in the last several posts and showing some compassion for the system and for those not as gifted with the aiming system he has acquired as god given. If he would have posted these in the beginning, then the thread may have been given more positive thoughts throughout, instead of taking the argumentative route.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
I try to avoid discussing religion and politics because it almost always sheds more heat than light, and can make an enemy instead of a friend. Looks like aiming systems are in that same category.
 
No one on the dissenting side seems to wanna pay for the info

A good CTE coach probably does have something to sell that's valuable to a small percentage of players, but I doubt that it's "info". I think it's probably hands-on coaching/cheerleading to build trust in the system so that the "adjustment" step works.

This doesn't make it a bad or useless system - it just means it isn't for everybody. People shouldn't take my digs at Spidey as criticisms of the system - they're just digs about Spidey's funny excuses for not being able to describe the adjustment step.

pj
chgo
 
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A problem that I have with the CTE or other so called systems is how do they work when you have another ball close to the pocket that you have to get around? Or how do you use it to aim for a carom, combo or bank?

I think systems may work sometimes but they are not anything that I would rely on.

I think the best way is to shoot a lot of balls and just get the feel for where to hit a ball to get it to where you want it to go.

As far as having systems in the old days I have heard a lot about shooting at the light reflections in the balls. Many old timers have told me that when they use to shoot they would use the lights but they can't shoot as good as they use to because of being older, wearing glasses etc. If that system was so great it would still work for them.

Another one is the secret of the pros. Learn the secret that the pros use to aim that they don't want you to know about. I think the reason that they can't tell you is because they don't know of any secret method. They just aim and shoot and can't explain how they do it. It is just a learned "instinct". Just as it is when eating. You don't really think about missing your mouth when eating. It doesn't matter if you are using a fork, glass, cup, can. bottle, etc. You never miss hitting your mouth. Even when you are stoned or in the dark you still get the bottle to you mouth and don't poke yourself in the eye.

Take any sport. It is just consistency and repetition. Do baseball players have a secret method on learning to catch fly balls? They learn from playing a lot and instinctively learn what the direction and trajectory of the ball will be as soon as it leaves the bat and sails in the air.

The key factors in pool are proper stance, grip, stroke and the ability to constantly repeat them just as it is in bowling, golf, etc.

Keep up the good work Dave and thanks for sharing.

But now we know we have to have our eyes in the proper place.
 
KT can crack the CTE secrecy!

[...]
Another one is the secret of the pros. Learn the secret that the pros use to aim that they don't want you to know about.
[...]

What? We're going to have to get our man KT to divine the secrets for us in a controversial book on the topic!
:D

j/k,
-Sean
 
Thank you!! I'll try that, mine are usually where the sun don't shine!:frown::embarrassed2: Wait, they are still in front of my head. Maybe I've got my head in the wrong place??? New thread, anyone??? "Where to place your head"
I think the one thing we discovered in this thread is that to learn CTE and the magical pivot, your head must be beneath a piece of tin foil. For the record, I still think the baloney in the shoe is a bunch of crap; although, it might help lubricate the air pivot.

I know I told PJ earlier not to be mocking and disrespectful, but I couldn't resist. After putting in so much effort over the years to get simple answers to simple questions, I think I finally give up. Now I think I finally understand PJ's lack of patience.

Regards,
Dave
 
I think the one thing we discovered in this thread is that to learn CTE and the magical pivot, your head must be beneath a piece of tin foil. For the record, I still think the baloney in the shoe is a bunch of crap; although, it might help lubricate the air pivot.

I know I told PJ earlier not to be mocking and disrespectful, but I couldn't resist. After putting in so much effort over the years to get simple answers to simple questions, I think I finally give up. Now I think I finally understand PJ's lack of patience.

Regards,
Dave

The problem I have dave is that if you talked to stan and hal and still have no clue than I would say you're unteachable. Its not rocket science. PJ states he didn't talk to them but he has all these maybees and theries on why it doesn't work. He admits he has no interest in learning, and we have to sit hear and read his shitty remarks. Why can't we learn more, I WONDER!!!
 
cookiedude:
PJ states he didn't talk to them but he has all these maybees and theries on why it doesn't work.

You make lots of sideline comments about what you think others don't know about this, but I've never seen you demonstrate any knowledge of your own.

Surely you don't criticize others without knowing what you're talking about, do you? Belly up to the table like a man and show us something. It's not rocket science, right?

pj
chgo

P.S. My "maybes and theories" are about how it does work.
 
I think the one thing we discovered in this thread is that to learn CTE and the magical pivot, your head must be beneath a piece of tin foil. For the record, I still think the baloney in the shoe is a bunch of crap; although, it might help lubricate the air pivot.

I know I told PJ earlier not to be mocking and disrespectful, but I couldn't resist. After putting in so much effort over the years to get simple answers to simple questions, I think I finally give up. Now I think I finally understand PJ's lack of patience.

Regards,
Dave

And, after all your preaching about taking a positive attitude, you gave in to your true colors.

Dave, what have you done to try to understand aiming systems, other than bicker back and forth on the Internet? Since you have a hard time understanding them, have you tried contacting an instructor that is proficient in them?

I'm a big proponent for aiming systems. I give credit to Hal Houle in showing me a way of aiming that has been very beneficial to my game. (I owe Hal a call...) With aiming systems, I feel (in my opinion only) that you have to be good at using the abstract portion of your brain. It's all about helping you get the proper perception of what the cut angle should be. I mentioned "abstract" because it's kinda like viewing those pics where you look real hard and the pic is actually the obverse of another pic, if that makes sense.

Anywho, I feel that aiming systems are a good thing. It might not be for everyone, but those that find them useful will swear by them. I just wish those that DON'T swear by them would realize that there is no need to cram their negative opinion of systems and digs down other's throats.


Eric
 
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