Darren Forfeits Beloit

[peteypooldude]

I agree with Jay.

Kinda like the saying "honor amongst thieves".

I would not be able to sleep at night if it were me.

This is absolute BS. Honor amongst thieves ?
A player has nothing to do with Calcutta or pays what. I guess he should pay everyone who bets on him when he loses. Degrading Darren's character is complete BS
SJM is spot on. This has Zero to do with honor or thieves ......
If he cut a deal it would be different but he just like all of us at one time or another just simply overslept

 

[one stroke]

This is called taking the high road and I would expect nothing less from a man like BJ.

Well sort of ,

1

 

[peteypooldude]

And you have to wonder if that played a factor it his setting of the alarm clock


1

Some more BS

 

[(((Satori)))]

............................

 

[cardiac kid]

Having no part in this event, my only comment is disappointment with Darren. Especially after his comments on the SBE "pro" event. In all the fifty plus years I've played, never remember ever missing a start time. Including those events held on the weekends when we jumped from DST to EST or visa versa. Darren is a great player. Will continue to cheer for him in future events. His persona is somewhat tarnished. His incredible talent is not.

As I have not read the entire thread, has there been a statement from him posted on AZ? Just wondered what his side of the story is. Hope this is a lesson learned. Both for one of the world's great players and the folks on the rail.

Lyn

 

[one stroke]

Some more BS

Really , just wondering after they finally got a hold of him and woke him up supposedly
Did he show up to apologize to the people who put thousands on him


1

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

And you have to wonder if that played a factor it his setting of the alarm clock


1

There was no way on earth darren missed this match with sky because he was worried he would get 'thumped'.

the man overslept and it seems to be quite contrary to what we have come to expect from Darren.

He has a very good track record and it looks like he made a human mistake and is real sorry about it.

However, as many have already said, while this is a very bitter pill, indeed, for the op to have to swallow, in the end it was all part of the gamble.

Very tough deal and the op is handling it better than many of us in this thread would.

BJ knows how it is and certainly has the right to vent a little about it, imo.

best,
brian kc

 

[westcoast]

Seriously Jay? I think your golden years has put a golden sheen on what you consider "real gamblers". The only time real gamblers tried to make things right when things didn't go their way is when they might have messed up their golden ticket.

Pool gamblers are more well known than any other sort of gambler for playing with "air barrels", "playing on their mettle" and dumping their backers. The OP said that one of the main reasons he bought Darren in the calcutta is because of his professionalism. His apology ratifies that, and I would be willing to bet that this never happens again to Darren.

And while BJTyler may not have overslept a 6:00am conference call, I'd be willing to bet that he has overslept a day of work at least once in his life. I know I have, in situations out of my control (power going out) and situations within my control (I'll hit the snooze button oooooooonnnnneee more time). Mistakes happen, and this just happened to be one. If it happens again or begins to be a pattern, then crucify the guy.

Other than blowing off steam because (justifiably) the OP was miffed about his horse being a no show, the rest of the posts judging this cat are ridiculous. If anyone here has never overslept or been late for work in their life then go ahead and cast the stones (and it can't be your first year to have a job). I'd be interested to
see how many can say that.

You make a good point- almost everybody has overslept something at least once in life. I know I have- just once out of thousands of days of work but it happens unfortunately. However, that was before smart phones- that is the one thing that miffs me about this situation- he must have set an alarm(s) on his phone. Maybe you're right- perhaps he hit snooze.

 

[Hungarian]

Yeah, I hear you but how is a "maybe" nonsense? I simply said I would be impressed if he made it right. He is not contractually obligated. Others said it better than I can. I agree with Jay.

That's nonsense. First of all, Darren is playing for Darren and nobody else. He paid his entry and he's just as sick about not winning as the guy who got him in Calcutta but a player had no responsibility towards someone who's betting on them. You had a great horse it just didn't workout. Sorry but that's gambling.

 

[lakeman77]

Cleary is correct. Gambling isn't buying Treasury bills. There's risk.

 

[mikepage]

[...] But that does not mean he doesn't have any moral responsibility to make things right with them in some way. [...]

I think you're off base here Jay

Among real gamblers there is a moral code, that allows them to loan money on a hand shake. Their word is their bond! And they know when they are wrong and need to do something to right it.

Yes. But irrelevant here...

 

[deanoc]

How could anything get worse for pool?I doubt this little episode will
affect things one way or the other.

People who want to work long hard hours slaving over a pool table
and think they are professional athletes will continue to do so

Stakehorses will hang in there and promoters of big
tournaments who don't pay the winners will remain on the top
of the sport

There is nothing to worry about,things will go on as before.

If anyone can get a stakehorse,come to Dallas,match up and play

you can make more money playing one old man, who can not make a spot shot,
in a day than you could winning these 2 bit so called tournaments that are so
dull that the contestants sleep through their matches

Match up and play ,sure the old man needs weight and wants the best of it

but who doesn't, Get your stake horses ,maybe you won't leave town broke

but then again most of you are broke now or you would not need a stake horse.

Post up,match up and play one pocket,but please don't ask to borrow money
it kinda looks bad for a profession athlete to beg

 

[mikeyfrost]

I think Daz ends up buying himself in all calcuttas or asks to be excluded from them. Somebody else said it, he had 8:1 on his entry fee, that's the best odds he''s ever gonna get, why bet the 4:1 in the calcutta if you're him. He's smart and knows he just messed up in a spot where he could have made some serious money.

As for the other guy who got burned Daz could do something cool for him like throw him some sponsorship material that doesn't necessarily cost him any out of pocket money like his video and a free cue or something. Leave him a note and say if you follow these steps you can win yourself and not have to buy me or anything funny.

This is fixable

 

[branpureza]

Yes, people oversleep all the time, including myself.

From time to time, I will schedule a 6:00am workout so that I can hit the gym before work, but I'm sorry to say that I oversleep quite a bit for this. Also, from time to time, I will schedule a 6:00am conference call with clients from Europe. But I'm happy to say that I have NEVER EVER overslept for this.

Why? because working out in the am is not a big deal. If I miss a workout, oh well. I can hit the gym in the afternoon or even skip a day...it's just not that important. On the other hand, my conference call is a big deal and very important. So whatever it takes, my ass get's out of bed in time to make the call.

So, when pool players like Darren oversleep in the semifinals of a $36k tournament, or when Justin Hall oversleeps his chance at winning Master of the Table at DCC, what message does this send?

In my opinion, the message is very loud and clear. That it's just not that important. And the fact is, they're 100% entitled to this opinion. Maybe the money's not enough, maybe it's too much effort, whatever. That's their choice to make.

However, if pool players aren't taking these events seriously, or treating them as if they're not a big deal? WHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD I? Why should I shell out my money buying PPV streams? Why should I take time out of my life to attend local events? And of course it goes without saying, why in the world would I put my money at risk in backing players or entering Calcuttas?

For that matter, why would anyone? Why would anyone be interested in watching a professional play pool, if they suspected the player of not treating it seriously. Simply put, if the players don't take the sport seriously, I consider myself a sucker to do otherwise.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time.

 

[Matt]

This is called taking the high road and I would expect nothing less from a man like BJ. Net result - Pool has lost one good supporter! Think about it.

Not only is BJ taking the high road, he also seems to understand why it would be a bad precedent for Darren to do anything to "make it right", as you say. As others have said, BJ was gambling on the results of a tournament, and in doing so took on the risk of not having his player show up in time. He estimated the chances of that happening were low, but it happened anyhow. In future calcuttas, gamblers will have to factor this event into their decision to buy Darren.

The reason I say that it would be bad to Darren to set a precedent by giving BJ anything (at least publicly) is that it opens the door for anyone that gambles on Darren to ask for some reimbursement if he loses. That can't happen. Say I had a side bet with my buddy on Darren winning the tournament and see that Darren pays back BJ; should I contact him about getting reimbursed as well? If not, what makes my situation any different than BJ's? Just because the people that bet in the calcutta are on location, do the players have a responsibility to them?

As for your last statement about pool losing a "good supporter", it may be that BJ is a good supporter of the game and is helping to make good things happen by putting money into it, spreading enthusiasm, and so on, but I don't see how gambling on pool would make someone a supporter. If this experience caused BJ to reconsider gambling on pool and he still did everything else the same (going to events, playing, buying products), he would still be supporting the sport just as much as before. Hopefully, that's where he lands eventually, but I can understand how being burnt on something like this would leave a bitter taste and push him away, in which case it may have been better if he had never gambled on pool in the first place.

 

[JAM]

...I once backed Keith in the Sands tournament. He was in the final four on the winners side and scheduled to play in the first round on the final day (I think it was at Noon). He was already guaranteed $2,000 but to make it to the hot seat match locked up $6,000, so there was a $4,000 swing on that match.

Needless to say Keith was a no show. Was I pissed? You better believe it. Drunk or sober he should have been there and he knew it. That was the last time I backed Keith in a tournament.

By the way he did show up in time for his loser's side match with Nick Varner. He knew he had to play that day and when he needed to be there. Like our OP said it just wasn't that important to him. Nick creamed him and that was it.

Well, one thing for sure, it would *not* have happened on my watch, Jay.

Behind every good pool player is a good woman, and I'll bet if Angie was there, Darren would have made this match.

For some players -- not Darren -- the pool tournaments are nothing more than a meeting place where action players gather. The real money to be made is before and after the tournament concludes for each day. This is what some players came to the tournament for. Sleep deprivation, unfortunately, for the action player is an occupational hazard, but if they're competing in a tournament, they have no business staying up all night, whether they're egaged in an action match, drinking, throwing dice, betting horses, or whatever they're doing.

That said, if Keith was backed, he should have shown his backer more respect by showing up. He was in the wrong. By the same token, Darren owned up to his mistake. I've woken up late myself and missed a job assignment. Not very often, but it happens. We are humans, not machines.

I'm sure Darren feels worse about it than we do here. The difference in prize money is only $2,000, but it might have meant he would have turned a profit for this event if he had come in 3rd instead of 4th place. And he might have gone all the way to first.

With that said, Jay, sleep has a way of interfering with all of us at pool tournaments. It happens to the best of us -- railbirds, players, and other pool aficionados -- from time to time. :smile:

 

[vagabond]

"Daz" has neither moral nor legal obligation to anybody involved in that tournament.

Believing that "daz" owes money/apologies is equivalent to Bullying by TushHogs and Mafia.

A old school pool player once said to me we don`t like anybody to knock our action and we will take that guy behind the pool hall and beat him up. I told him that fortunately or unfortunately in the old days those TushHogs got away with their bullying but not any more in this day and age as others also could do that to them with one gram of lead.
By the way, Daz`s last match (against Bowman) ended at 1 AM and by the time he finished eating and doing other stuff it was 3 AM when he went to bed/sleep. He woke up at 10:15 AM and he immediately called the tournament room and talked to Skylar. No agreement reached.
Daz knew that it was his fault and did not blame anybody regards the tournament schedule.

 

[vagabond]

By the way, Daz`s last match (against Bowman) ended at 1 AM and by the time he finished eating and doing other stuff it was 3 AM when he went to bed/sleep. He woke up at 10:15 AM and he immediately called the tournament room and talked to Skylar. No agreement reached.

Sports are expected to promote good health - take good rest/sleep,eat well,exercise etc.
The very first thing one has to do if pool has to be considered as a sport is NOT to have any matches starting later than 7 PM.

 

[JAM]

"Daz" has neither moral nor legal obligation to anybody involved in that tournament.

Believing that "daz" owes money/apologies is equivalent to Bullying by TushHogs and Mafia.

A old school pool player once said to me we don`t like anybody to knock our action and we will take that guy behind the pool hall and beat him up. I told him that fortunately or unfortunately in the old days those TushHogs got away with their bullying but not any more in this day and age as others also could do that to them with one gram of lead.
By the way, Daz`s last match (against Bowman) ended at 1 AM and by the time he finished eating and doing other stuff it was 3 AM when he went to bed/sleep. He woke up at 10:15 AM and he immediately called the tournament room and talked to Skylar. No agreement reached.
Daz knew that it was his fault and did not blame anybody regards the tournament schedule.

No offense meant to the tournament organizers, but that right there sounds like bad logistical planning. I've been to tournaments where one match ends at 1 and 2 a.m., and to expect a pool player to show up the next day at 10 a.m. is not good logistics. Nobody can play their best without proper rest.

Thank you for sharing that, Vagabond. Now I can see how a professional player who's always shown up on time in the past had this happen.

As far as the Calcutta goes, I have always said it's Buyer Beware. It's no different than going to a horse race and having the horse fall down in the track or the rider falls off. Hey, that's the breaks. It's called "gambling," and anything can happen when you're gambling. Gambling standards is quite different than tournament standards when it comes to a sure thing.

 

[Matt]

However, if pool players aren't taking these events seriously, or treating them as if they're not a big deal? WHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD I? Why should I shell out my money buying PPV streams? Why should I take time out of my life to attend local events? And of course it goes without saying, why in the world would I put my money at risk in backing players or entering Calcuttas?

For that matter, why would anyone? Why would anyone be interested in watching a professional play pool, if they suspected the player of not treating it seriously. Simply put, if the players don't take the sport seriously, I consider myself a sucker to do otherwise.

I agree that it is foolish to "invest" your money in gambling on players that you suspect may not take the tournament seriously, but I would like to think that most of them do take it seriously most of the time. In fact, considering that they are making a living based on their performance at the game, I find it unlikely that any pro player doesn't take it fairly seriously. However, you can only put so much of yourself into any one thing before the rest of your life suffers from it, so there are always going to be decisions to make. There are things that are more important than pool, even to the pros, so it's unfair to expect 100% all of the time. In this case, I doubt it was even a priority call on Darren's part; it was probably just an honest mistake, and I'm sure he is at least as upset with himself as you are.