Darren Forfeits Beloit

[spartan]

Darren is not Gwyneth Paltrow

Honestly Darren, how would you know?

You cost a guy a few thousand dollars of potential earnings in a pool tournament.

When I go to work I am dealing with being on the front lines of production for a oil sands mine that produces many millions dollars worth of oil each day. My job is to assess the quality of the material being mined and ensure that the quality of the material is properly identified so that processing can successfully extract the oil from the mined material and not lose it to coarse tailings. If/when I have a bad day or a mistake is made it is not measured in the thousands, a small error easily costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and a larger error quickly climbs into the millions "very" quickly. I have seen things happen that cost more in a single day then the entire added money in the whole of pool for the last 10 years combined.

You want stress? Try dealing with a real time situation where a million dollars of oil is being lost every hour and you are running around a mine analyzing the material being sent to the breaker trying to determine the cause for the bitumen losses to coarse tailings, all the while having top execs and mine operations personnel breathing down your neck expecting you to fix everything. Try dealing with a situation where something was missed and it caused a major processing issue that shuts down the whole mine and now you are going to be answering questions as to why production had to be ceased and the company lost millions of dollars due to people were sitting in haul trucks on the side of the haul roads and electric shovels were sitting idle in the pits when you were "supposed" to be producing 850 l/s of oil.

Don't be so sure your job warps many of those people working those "paycheck" jobs with regards to "stress". A lot more stock brokers end up jumping out of windows than do pool players.

You usually make some good posts but you are off on this one
Darren is no Gwyneth Paltrow.
Gwyneth famously whined that being celebirty mom is tougher than average working mom and was deservedly slammed for it http://nypost.com/2014/03/27/a-working-moms-open-letter-to-gwyneth-paltrow/

Most of us have worked 9-5 job and you are very unlikely to get fired if you are late. Unless you are the temp guy or newbie guy, by and large you still get your paycheck despite making some mistakes and long hours.
Of cos there are exceptions - there are horrible 9 to 5 jobs that are worse than pool player like the sewerage guy whose daily job is clean up poop, the bomb disposal expert who is frontline to defuse bombs, the zookeeper who handles tigers and crocodiles and may end up being a meal.
So no, by and large pool player is tougher than 9 to 5 job. What would be similar and comparable to pool player would be the small business/startup guy who has to chase for clients, skimp to save to pay his mortgage, employees, overhead and any screw up like not getting client order or client running away or being late for client delivery can cause his business to fold up
Folks here should cut Darren some slack.
:grin:

 

[gregcantrall]

thanks :smile:

Darren

illegitimi non carborundum:thumbup:

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

while understanably pissed over how things went with his wager, the op of this thread has stated a number of times, unequivocally, that Darren owes him nothing. He understands how it works and all of the attendant risks that comes with buying a player in a calcutta.

so it's mystifying to me how so many others are expecting the op should receive cash reimbursement, pool cues, other accessories, and maybe even a glossy 8 x 10 of Darren.

From the sounds of it, Daz is sincerely sorry for his misstep, one that cost him a chance at winning a lot more money, too.

The man made a very human mistake, said he is plenty sorry about it.

Should he be stoned at the village square?

best,
brian kc

 

[one stroke]

while obviously pissed over how things went with his wager, the op of this thread has stated a number of times, unequivocally, that Darren owes him nothing. He understands how it works and all of the attendant risks that comes with buying a player in a calcutta.

so it's mystifying to me how so many others are expecting the op should receive cash reimbursement, pool cues, other accessories, and maybe even a glossy 8 x 10 of Darren.

From the sounds of it, Daz is sincerely sorry for his misstep, one that cost him a chance at winning a lot more money, too.

The man made a very human mistake, said he is plenty sorry about it.

Should he be stoned at the village square?

best,
brian kc

This is the last words of the OP

However, I will seriously reconsider what involvment -if any- I ever have again with pro pool as either a backer, spectator, or stream viewer.

Will I ever participate in another calcutta again? NEVER - FU**ING - EVER! Fool me once... To put it bluntly, I think it will be a long time before I put any of my money back into the pro pool economy .............

What Darren and several others including his spokesperson fails to realize is if you don't have these guys coming to the venue to not only participate in the Calcuttas but to spend money at the venue ,, I'm more than sure he's not eating potato chips and drinking water

Cut these guys out and that added money goes down way down so thinking thier not directly apart of a pool players pay check is foolish thinking
I could be wrong here only the OP can answer but I'm pretty sure a face to face I'm sorry maybe buy the guy lunch or dinner would have took some of the sting out
But instead he got I'm sorry but I'm in it for me not my fault you bet on me
Come on mannnnn
1

 

[KRJ]

QUOTE=cleary;5166271]I'm sure he's broken up to peices that an almost shortstop, hermit looking, Internet troll doesn't like his apology for screwing himself out of thousands of dollars.[/QUOTE]

O.M.G. :rotflmao1::lol::rotflmao::rotflmao1::lmao:

 

[theluckfactor]

If anyone has a job opening that pays a 150k please PM me and I will quit my job, buy Darren a new alarm clock and donate 20k for a tournament,

 

[corvette1340]

If anyone has a job opening that pays a 150k please PM me and I will quit my job, buy Darren a new alarm clock and donate 20k for a tournament,

Pm sent. Can you walk around in a monkey suit with a midget in a smaller monkey suit chained to your leg?

 

[jay helfert]

Pm sent. Can you walk around in a monkey suit with a midget in a smaller monkey suit chained to your leg?

I can be the midget! I guess that only pays 75K.

 

[MiscueBlues]

Sky's backers are cowards. All they care about is the money and that's sad. They could have said, 'let the players play' even 30 min late. But instead they let their greed rob the fans of a match they came to see.

If I were Sky I would have demanded the match played 30 min late. It's not so unreasonable as to cut into the next match, so what's the problem. "The rules..." Nah it's the move of a business-man not a player.

Mistakes happen, but you people decided this match would not be played because it was in your financial interest. You are sad little people. Cowards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheCueHunter]

Not to mention, to people who think 150k a year is peanuts and tough to live on... what freaking planet are you actually living on atm? The average household income in the USA is in the $52,000 range give or take a couple grand. A very small percentage of the population is making 150k a year and if you are struggling to live on that than maybe you need to relook at how you "spend" money. Very few people will "ever" make that type of cash and those people that do are normally in the more senior positions in specific industries.

Anyone who says things like "gee, I could never live on 150k a year...!" is seriously out there. I live in a city where the average household income is probably the highest of any actual working city in North America (not including old money boroughs of the already extremely rich) and people here making 150k per a year are doing just fine if they are not going crazy spending their money on a 1.5 million dollar house, 2 quads, and a new Ram 3500 and Porsche every couple of years or funding a recreational drug habit.

Didn't you know...on AZ EVERYONE makes 150,000 a year...duh

 

[mikeyfrost]

This thread got awesome today. Daz still gonna be a good player whether he throws dude some free shit or not. I don't like the idea of a big calcutta....this isn't sport fishing. Cleary is my hero he's winning the battle of zingers

 

[jcrack_corn]

I hope this is sarcasm. Either way, sarcasm or serious, its funny as hell.

Sky's backers are cowards. All they care about is the money and that's sad. They could have said, 'let the players play' even 30 min late. But instead they let their greed rob the fans of a match they came to see.

If I were Sky I would have demanded the match played 30 min late. It's not so unreasonable as to cut into the next match, so what's the problem. "The rules..." Nah it's the move of a business-man not a player.

Mistakes happen, but you people decided this match would not be played because it was in your financial interest. You are sad little people. Cowards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[one stroke]

This thread got awesome today. Daz still gonna be a good player whether he throws dude some free shit or not. I don't like the idea of a big calcutta....this isn't sport fishing. Cleary is my hero he's winning the battle of zingers

Ya and i walk on water

1

 

[KRJ]

Sky's backers are cowards. All they care about is the money and that's sad. They could have said, 'let the players play' even 30 min late. But instead they let their greed rob the fans of a match they came to see.

If I were Sky I would have demanded the match played 30 min late. It's not so unreasonable as to cut into the next match, so what's the problem. "The rules..." Nah it's the move of a business-man not a player.

Mistakes happen, but you people decided this match would not be played because it was in your financial interest. You are sad little people. Cowards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dude, get real. He's trying to win the cheese, and he does NOT have to cut anyone some slack. This is not league night with a few bucks and a plastic trophy on the line. It's his livelihood. He played by the rules, and Darren over slept. Those are the breaks. Fans got robbed of nothing, they paid to see great players play, and that is what they saw. So, they missed one match...boo fuggin hoo.

For $16K on the line, I'm calling forfeit exactly 2 seconds after the start of the match, and I kid you NOT. That's called "winning". And suddenly, in sports crazed America it's now not cool to win at all costs ??

Let me know next time "your" team is in the superbowl, but the starting QB on the other team is stuck in traffic, and will miss the first half of the game. Yeah, you'd be jumping up and down demanding they wait for the NFL MVP to get to the stadium to pick apart your home team

 

[Celtic]

Saying "not going to retire soon" means tough to live on? lol this place is unreal.

That was in response to this.

If anyone thinks Darren Appleton's self-reported $150k/year is a great income, I'm guessing they have never paid taxes and never supported a family and saved for retirement on that income. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you guys earned that, and somehow managed to have a lot left over after living expenses and after Uncle Sam took his cut. Good for you if you can manage money that well.

If Appleton has to pay his tournament entries, expenses, airfare, and hotels out of that self-reported $150k/year, he is probably living well below an average keyboard puncher in Silicon Valley.

I am glad Appleton is satisfied with his $150k job, but it is not wealth by any stretch of the imagination.

It was discussed a fair bit in the last couple of pages. The bolded part particularly blew my mind. If a person cannot fathom how to save any money with a normal 150K a year income...

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

No offense meant to the tournament organizers, but that right there sounds like bad logistical planning. I've been to tournaments where one match ends at 1 and 2 a.m., and to expect a pool player to show up the next day at 10 a.m. is not good logistics. Nobody can play their best without proper rest.

Thank you for sharing that, Vagabond. Now I can see how a professional player who's always shown up on time in the past had this happen.

As far as the Calcutta goes, I have always said it's Buyer Beware. It's no different than going to a horse race and having the horse fall down in the track or the rider falls off. Hey, that's the breaks. It's called "gambling," and anything can happen when you're gambling. Gambling standards is quite different than tournament standards when it comes to a sure thing.

I have to agree that when you have a player playing until 1 AM or 2 AM in the morning and expecting him to pay at 10 AM is very poor planning by the tournament director. I played in a tournament that my last match ended at 1:30 AM and I had to play again at 9:00 AM. I showed up but was physically and mentally exhausted and couldn't run 3 balls. It seems like every time this happens its because ONE player plays so slow (in a bracket) that it delays the entire bracket. Slow play should never be allowed in tournaments.

I thinks its sad when you expect the best out of players when tournaments directors run tournaments without players getting enough rest to play their best is a joke.

 

[jay helfert]

I have to agree that when you have a player playing until 1 AM or 2 AM in the morning and expecting him to pay at 10 AM is very poor planning by the tournament director. I played in a tournament that my last match ended at 1:30 AM and I had to play again at 9:00 AM. I showed up but was physically and mentally exhausted and couldn't run 3 balls. It seems like every time this happens its because ONE player plays so slow (in a bracket) that it delays the entire bracket. Slow play should never be allowed in tournaments.

In this past years U.S. Open with 126 players, our last rounds of play were scheduled for 11 PM each night and some of them did not go off until Midnight or a little after that. The latest matches were ending at 1:30 to 2 AM. The morning matches started at 11 AM, so there was only nine to ten hours between the last round ending at night and the first round beginning the next day.

The way I scheduled it (and this was the tricky part) anyone who played a late night match would never play before the second round the next day, which was scheduled for 1 PM, thus giving them time to get some rest and eat breakfast before playing. Only a few players took note of this and the fact that no one (okay one guy) was grumbling about playing back at 1 PM was good enough for me. If I had scheduled these guys to play back at 11 AM I would have gotten a lot of complaints and I knew it.

It's not always that easy to manipulate the tournament board to make that work out, but it can be done with proper planning. Of course in hindsight it's not that hard to second guess how things were handled, but there may be a better way to schedule the matches in the future. I'm more than willing to help out any TD in doing their scheduling, so things like this don't happen.

I 100% know that Darren hated to miss that match (evidenced by his desperate phone call to the venue asking for more time). He is if nothing else a great competitor, one of the best in the game. It's unfortunate what happened and ultimately the responsibility rests with Darren, but if there is a way to prevent things like this from occurring again we should pay attention to what happened here.

I think there is a valuable lesson to be learned and it has to do with the rigors of competing for hours on end against the best players in the game and the necessary time it takes to unwind and prepare for the next day. In truth seven or eight hours is just not enough time and in all likelihood Darren would have been a big underdog in his match with Skyler, if he somehow managed to get there on time. But being the competitor he is, he would have preferred to try anyway.

We all want to see the best pool we can when so many great players get together, so it's incumbent on those of us who run these events to make sure the conditions are good for everyone. No question something didn't work in Beloit and we need to look at that and make the necessary corrections. It's not right to lay it all on Darren. I've never known him to miss a match before.

P.S. I'm a big proponent of the shot clock for matches that are moving too slowly. I will give them one warning and after that they're on a 30 second shot clock with one extension per rack. It's amazing how much that speeds things up!

 

[Tin Man]

For those that say "if you don't show up for work you get fired, this is no different"...that's not quite true.

I have overslept and missed CRITICAL meetings before. I didn't get fired. Why? Because I have a track record of over 6 years with my company, in which I've done an OUTSTANDING job. If I overslept I would get reprimanded one time, and then it would be BEHIND ME. Yes, there might be some consequences if the timing was terrible and it made a huge impact, but my track record would preserve my career from a human mistake.

Daz too has a long track record of exemplary behavior and results. Like a 9-5 job, let's not fire him, let's give him a verbal warning and know it will probably never happen again.

Daz, it's a pleasure to have you on our boards. You are the only world champ I know that is participating, and it is a treat. I've devoted a big part of my life to the game and have had some moments in the sun. You sir are the real thing. Yes, you are very human, that's all the more reason your accomplishments are so impressive. Please keep posting on AZ!

 

[Texdance]

This is the last words of the OP

However, I will seriously reconsider what involvment -if any- I ever have again with pro pool as either a backer, spectator, or stream viewer.

Will I ever participate in another calcutta again? NEVER - FU**ING - EVER! Fool me once... To put it bluntly, I think it will be a long time before I put any of my money back into the pro pool economy .............

What Darren and several others including his spokesperson fails to realize is if you don't have these guys coming to the venue to not only participate in the Calcuttas but to spend money at the venue ,, I'm more than sure he's not eating potato chips and drinking water

Cut these guys out and that added money goes down way down so thinking thier not directly apart of a pool players pay check is foolish thinking
I could be wrong here only the OP can answer but I'm pretty sure a face to face I'm sorry maybe buy the guy lunch or dinner would have took some of the sting out
But instead he got I'm sorry but I'm in it for me not my fault you bet on me
Come on mannnnn
1

Years ago there was a small group of somewhat rich guys who pumped dollars into the pool gambling community from their personal wealth or regular business income. The money came from outside pool, moved from player to player, and eventually ended up paying daily expenses like cafes, motels, gas stations and the like. After awhile those guys quit pumping bucks into pool for various reasons, and the gambling scene got a lot quieter until some new set of money guys picked up the slack.

The current player/backer/sometime loser model for those guys is the very nice Harry Platis, a semi-pro player attorney who brings in money from outside pool and puts it into play in the pool gambling community. He is no sucker, he plays well and makes good games, but he does play against some of the best which means he is likely to lose, sometimes many thousands of dollars, just like those guys years ago who kept road players in beans.

There also used to be quite a few backers who payed the player 50% of the winnings but took 100% of the losses. This works out great for the player, but is a statistical sure loss for any backer in the short run. The days of the weekend backer are numbered just because the statistics assure the money man will lose and lose quickly unless there is a long term expense sharing relationship between the backer and player.

So what has all this to do with the comment?

Wising up is what it is called. All the guys who put 'outside money' into pool gambling eventually wise up, see how the game is played, and change the way they gamble on pool. They back off. It is nothing new, it has been happening for a long time, I first saw it during the 60s and 70s and I'm sure it happened before my time.

So this one Calcutta event leads to one guy wising up. He has learned to not bet on a pool player because they are human and make human mistakes. Ho hum, big deal.

That Calcutta was a big risk - I mean, betting that one guy (other than SVB) will place third or better in a field of 16 champions? That is risky, as everyone who took players other than Duell, SVB and Woodson discovered.

The OP could always switch to betting on horses, they always run to their potential and they never make mistakes, nor do their trainers, owners, vets, or jockeys.

I am thinking the OP is not showing too much responsibility for his own part of this non-win. Did he not see any reason to try to make sure he could at least contact Appleton to help make sure he showed up on time for each match?

And like I've said all along, the way Woodson was playing on Sunday, Appleton was less than 50-50 likely to be winner of their match, in my book. No disrespect to Appleton's skill, but Woodson was truly on a roll. Beat Corey Duell once and SVB twice (total games 30-23) in the same day? On a roll, Mr Woodson, on a roll.

I support Darren Appleton because he has been quick and forthcoming with a sincere apology. That's all I would expect of him or anyone for the simple failure of oversleeping, even in an important match. Those who think he owes someone some money are looking at this from a perspective of an ethical, honest, hail-fellow-well-met pool gambling culture - which is opposite of my personal experience with many (but not all) pool gamblers.

At least Mr Helfert makes a case from his experience and I respect that, he is not calling names and getting all snide and pouty like some recent trolls.

But of course the AZB potshotters will have a field day. Let the one liners begin er I mean continue. With just a few more Neanderthal posts AZB can run one more pro off this forum forever, won't that be great?

The Troll-Warriers' Motto:
Kick 'em When They're Down,
If They're Not Down,
Kick 'em Til They Are.

 

[BJTyler]

Years ago there was a small group of somewhat rich guys who pumped dollars into the pool gambling community from their personal wealth or regular business income. The money came from outside pool, moved from player to player, and eventually ended up paying daily expenses like cafes, motels, gas stations and the like. After awhile those guys quit pumping bucks into pool for various reasons, and the gambling scene got a lot quieter until some new set of money guys picked up the slack.

The current player/backer/sometime loser model for those guys is the very nice Harry Platis, a semi-pro player attorney who brings in money from outside pool and puts it into play in the pool gambling community. He is no sucker, he plays well and makes good games, but he does play against some of the best which means he is likely to lose, sometimes many thousands of dollars, just like those guys years ago who kept road players in beans.

There also used to be quite a few backers who payed the player 50% of the winnings but took 100% of the losses. This works out great for the player, but is a statistical sure loss for any backer in the short run. The days of the weekend backer are numbered just because the statistics assure the money man will lose and lose quickly unless there is a long term expense sharing relationship between the backer and player.

So what has all this to do with the comment?

Wising up is what it is called. All the guys who put 'outside money' into pool gambling eventually wise up, see how the game is played, and change the way they gamble on pool. They back off. It is nothing new, it has been happening for a long time, I first saw it during the 60s and 70s and I'm sure it happened before my time.

So this one Calcutta event leads to one guy wising up. He has learned to not bet on a pool player because they are human and make human mistakes. Ho hum, big deal.

That Calcutta was a big risk - I mean, betting that one guy (other than SVB) will place third or better in a field of 16 champions? That is risky, as everyone who took players other than Duell, SVB and Woodson discovered.

The OP could always switch to betting on horses, they always run to their potential and they never make mistakes, nor do their trainers, owners, vets, or jockeys.

I am thinking the OP is not showing too much responsibility for his own part of this non-win. Did he not see any reason to try to make sure he could at least contact Appleton to help make sure he showed up on time for each match?

And like I've said all along, the way Woodson was playing on Sunday, Appleton was less than 50-50 likely to be winner of their match, in my book. No disrespect to Appleton's skill, but Woodson was truly on a roll. Beat Corey Duell once and SVB twice (total games 30-23) in the same day? On a roll, Mr Woodson, on a roll.

I support Darren Appleton because he has been quick and forthcoming with a sincere apology. That's all I would expect of him or anyone for the simple failure of oversleeping, even in an important match. Those who think he owes someone some money are looking at this from a perspective of an ethical, honest, hail-fellow-well-met pool gambling culture - which is opposite of my personal experience with many (but not all) pool gamblers.

At least Mr Helfert makes a case from his experience and I respect that, he is not calling names and getting all snide and pouty like some recent trolls.

But of course the AZB potshotters will have a field day. Let the one liners begin er I mean continue. With just a few more Neanderthal posts AZB can run one more pro off this forum forever, won't that be great?

The Troll-Warriers' Motto:
Kick 'em When They're Down,
If They're Not Down,
Kick 'em Til They Are.

Boy, there's a whole lotta stupid in that post. Way too much for me to dissect, but I do like this steaming turd.

"I am thinking the OP is not showing too much responsibility for his own part of this non-win. Did he not see any reason to try to make sure he could at least contact Appleton to help make sure he showed up on time for each match?"

...Yes, you're right...it's obviously my fault for not waking Darren up. I owe him an apology....sorry, pal.


Or this bit of wisdom...

"...is a statistical sure loss for any backer in the short run."

...I'll just let you stew on that for awhile.


And who the fu$k is Woodson? Since you repeated this name four times, I'm assuming this isn't a mere typo, but you are actually hearing someone say "Woodson".


Just one final question....were you born this way? or is this the result of a lot of glue huffing in your early years? Btw, I'm being very sincere.