I said it more in a figurative sense.since your screen name is book collector I assume u may have buddy`s book. you amy find out about that match between grady and buddy in Buddy`s biography whose title I forgot.
Defining a true one pocket player
- Thread starter 1 Pocket Ghost
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I said it more in a figurative sense.since your screen name is book collector I assume u may have buddy`s book. you amy find out about that match between grady and buddy in Buddy`s biography whose title I forgot.
i like the way JoeyA describes 1 pocket in his commentary of (i forgot the guys that were playing) but the description was good. it combines shot making, moving and planning to make an overall superior game. or something like that.
nah but for real you know you're a one pocket player if you play with a BCM and go by the name o 1 pocket ghost!!!LOL
sell me my cue back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol. nah i'm kidding. the new one's on the way
i love 1 pocket. i just wish i could play the game a little better. i always forget to take care of whitey and i take way too many flyers. i kick at the stack too hard and never quite manage to lag anything to the hole. if it's more than a 2 rail bank forget about it! i'm still trying though. 1 pocket chumpion right here
7 ahead for a hundred right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Percentages=suffocation!
Tough to beat a champion that can shoot like that, one-pocket genius or not! Bad news, Efren's both, genius and straight shooter!!!
You'll find total agreement with this enthusiast! Those are the skills that win one-hole, always! Everyone today is so--- impressed with Efren running out from everywhere on the table. In truth though, if you watch his development of the opening positions, transitioning to the mid game, he is flawless, almost all of the time. This type of advantage is often overlook by inexperienced players. It devastates opponents who "sucker" for an up table bank, instead of watching whitey, and sell out the world! Efren commonly makes world class players look like rookies because of this very aspect of his average game! He is changing the idea of what great one-pocket is however, because after an opponent falters, even slightly, the percentages in Efren's type of development allow him to use his extraordinary ball running skills to go "whatever" and out!
Tough to beat a champion that can shoot like that, one-pocket genius or not! Bad news, Efren's both, genius and straight shooter!!!
I agree with the OP in general.
1 example of a 1 pocket player,he or she can give 9-7 to someone who gives them the 8.
1 example of a 1 pocket player,he or she can give 9-7 to someone who gives them the 8.
Great thread ghost!!! 
:thumbup:
I believe that when discussing one pocket players it is over simplifying things if you start labeling players shooters or movers. At the top level no one can get there without superior ball making skills, speed control and complete knowledge. The idea that someone could be a devastating player without being able to make shots is ridiculous. Allot of shots that would be considered moves take just as much skill to execute as a tough bank or cut shot. Many times the difference between an inescapable trap and an ok shot is a fraction of an inch.
This section of your original post is an insightful perspective on what makes a good one pocket player:
"Imo, what defines a pure, excellent one pocket player is that along with having excellent ball pocketing and position play skills....He is a player who knows 95%-100% of all moves, and ALWAYS analyzes the options/percentages correctly when deciding how, and in what manner he can aggressively attack his opponent every inning that he comes to the table - And if there is no offensive option available, he will play a killer safety with perfect cueball control.....Two players from the past who come to mind as being this kind of pure and champion level one pocket player are Artie Bodendorfer and the "Cookie Monster" - Steve Cook."
Dudley
:thumbup:I believe that when discussing one pocket players it is over simplifying things if you start labeling players shooters or movers. At the top level no one can get there without superior ball making skills, speed control and complete knowledge. The idea that someone could be a devastating player without being able to make shots is ridiculous. Allot of shots that would be considered moves take just as much skill to execute as a tough bank or cut shot. Many times the difference between an inescapable trap and an ok shot is a fraction of an inch.
This section of your original post is an insightful perspective on what makes a good one pocket player:
"Imo, what defines a pure, excellent one pocket player is that along with having excellent ball pocketing and position play skills....He is a player who knows 95%-100% of all moves, and ALWAYS analyzes the options/percentages correctly when deciding how, and in what manner he can aggressively attack his opponent every inning that he comes to the table - And if there is no offensive option available, he will play a killer safety with perfect cueball control.....Two players from the past who come to mind as being this kind of pure and champion level one pocket player are Artie Bodendorfer and the "Cookie Monster" - Steve Cook."
Dudley
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I'm not sure what kind of pool room you come from - but if Running 8 and out five times in a row isin't excellent one pocket to you...... well..... maybe you might use your moves and ask Mr. Sigel for a money game......
Perhaps your point is focused on the one pocket strategy - but I don't know why you would bash a legend who used his best skillset to WIN... just to make the point.
Just sayin....
I have to agree with this. Maybe Mike didn't play perfect One Pocket and maybe his knowledge was not on a par with some of the best players. BUT he did use his consummate pool skills to play a very strong game of One Hole. He and Mizerak were both world class One Pocket players because they made balls from everywhere, banked accurately and ran balls better than almost anyone else.
I know how the famous One Pocket Ghost plays and he isn't even in their league. I love you Ghosty but get off your high horse here. It's like me saying Irving Crane was not a top 9-Ball player because he didn't understand "push-out" 9-Ball, the way it was played during his heyday. He still managed to give the best 9-Ball players in the world fits when he met them in tournaments. If anyone thinks he was a soft draw because he never played the game, they are dead wrong. Same for Balsis too. He NEVER played 9-Ball, except in tournaments and he was a killer!
I think it all balls down to personal preference
Simple analogy....Scott Frost/Efren Reyes...Some people will be more impressed with the creativity of Efren compared to others who will be more impressed by the pure firepower of Scott...even tho both are impressed by both...:shrug:
Simple analogy....Scott Frost/Efren Reyes...Some people will be more impressed with the creativity of Efren compared to others who will be more impressed by the pure firepower of Scott...even tho both are impressed by both...:shrug:
i agree who ever wins is the better player, forget style of play if a player can use his fire power to win more often he is the better 1P player. This isnt sycronized swimming where everyone has to do what the other person is doing, you do what ever you have to to win-and the guy who does that better is the better player, I dont care what pool game that is.
I agree with this as both styles are impressive but Scott learned from Cliff and Efren by matching up with them and losing thousands to them. I think he is a great player and most people just think he runs a ton of balls which he does but he banks world class and can move with anyone. The big difference is when he beats you to the shot then you do not get another shot most times.
I feel things are looked at differently than in years past. In years past there were action players and then there were tournament players. Many were known as good tournament players but hd the reputation as not being able to"take it down. There isn't near the action there used to be so it has sort of reversed itself.
Efren was a great player and dominated to the tournament scene. Could he have beaten Ronnie? Not convinced either way, BUT, put ronnie and Efren in the back room and by the end of the tournament Ronnie would have given up the weight and won most of the money where I think Efren would have had not interest in playing half those games.Ronnie was just brilliant at giving up the "nuts" and shooting the lock off.
Cliff came along and had a huge degree of this and Scott seems to also. Things have reversed now and the players are graded by tournament results versus the backroom since the back room doesn't really exist anymore.
Lets give some examples. Justin Cone is not a world class 1 pocket player, but he has beat Henny out of over 20,000 in the past giving him two balls. On the other hand, Henny has got even giving Justin/Roadman the 7,8 and 9 playing 9 ball. As far as Earl being a good one pocket player, Justin ran over him for the cash and Earl offered him the 7,8 and 9 also. I am no one pocket player, but after playing Cliff two weeks ago, I can say I would take the break on a barbox before i would play him 10-6 and the break playing one hole on a big table. Sometimes straight shooters will outrun the movers, but I have give you a example of when they can't!
I am sorry I will have to disagree. What makes a great onepocket player is how well he performs period. The idea is to win the game whoever does that the most over a long period of time is the better player. Just as you cannot discount the importance of moving you most defintly can not discount the importance of ball pocketing. Some of the greatest 1 hole players of all time were told they played the game wrong guys like Ronnie Allen and Effie, Ronnie's reply of 8 and out is the best move I know. When Harold Worst showed up on the scene and was running 8s, and 10s they told him he played the game wrong. Mike Sigel banks balls well sees patterns as good as anyone and runs out like water when someone is playing an aggresive game of offensive onepocket it reminds me of a Mike Tyson quote from his prime.
"Everyone has a plan, then I hit em"
"Everyone has a plan, then I hit em"
I agree with what you saying about Scott...was just making a quick analogy...Not saying he don't know the moves but when you watch him shoot you forget about that lil trap that he put you in when he picks up a big chunk of balls or goes 8 & out.
i watched Grady's one pocket tape and I would prefer to take lessons from Buddy hall or just about anybody
also I am surprised by Fatboys comments(I agree with him) but I was not aware he could spell synchronized swimming let alone make such a cogent analogy
It reminds me of critcizing Babe Ruth's bunting and suggesting he is not a real baseball player,I play nothing but one pocket but I need tons of weight to play a good 9 ball player,but according to some I am the better one pocket player?
also I am surprised by Fatboys comments(I agree with him) but I was not aware he could spell synchronized swimming let alone make such a cogent analogy
It reminds me of critcizing Babe Ruth's bunting and suggesting he is not a real baseball player,I play nothing but one pocket but I need tons of weight to play a good 9 ball player,but according to some I am the better one pocket player?
"Efren for the cheese!"
Ask any of the players who were around when Ronnie Allen was on top of the one-pocket world and like everything else, according to who you ask, you'll here a variety of answers as to how good he actually was. The majority will say, "he was the best of that era, maybe of all time."
Joey Spaeth, was considered by the best in the game, to be near impossible to beat "for the cheese." He grew-up playing one-pocket against the likes of Clem, and all the top Johnson City regulars. He said, speaking of Ronnie, "he's the only guy ever give me a ball and win!" My question to Joey was, "who's the best 1-pocket player ever?" Now mind you, this question was asked in 1983, a couple of years before Efren came on the scene playing 9-ball in the U.S..
Another thing to keep in mind is this, Reyes came late to one-pocket. He was already considered a top 9-baller and well known to the other pro's by the time he even started playing this great game. Early-on there's a story by Freddy Bentivegna, (who was coaching Efren in a proposition game against Grady Matthews) when Efren refused to take an intentional and lost, Freddy said, "Your head ain't shaped right to play this game!" In light of what's transpired since, those words look ridiculous. But Freddy the beard, is brilliant in his own right and you've got to believe he knew what he was saying at that moment! It's reported to be one of Efren's first match-ups in one hole and he would've been about 32. Now on the other hand, Ronnie in his late 20's was the most creative player ever, virtually changing the nature of "how" the game would be played in the future! Efren, now in his mid-fifties, is still making that same contribution to this game!
In Louisville in 2005, Ronnie himself said of Efren, "I never seen anything like-em!"
The debate over who's greatest of all time, needs to be among players who actually know the strengths and weaknesses in the playing styles of the contenders for that illusive title. It's so important to know how those aspects of play would effect the outcome of a match between 2 great players in their prime. I suppose a computer program could be used to evaluate players from different era's (kind like they do in other sports) to come with a more realistic conjecture as to who's best. At the end of the day, though, when any of the living greats talk about Efren Reyes and one pocket, their words practically sound alike, "I ain't seen nothin' like em!"
Ask any of the players who were around when Ronnie Allen was on top of the one-pocket world and like everything else, according to who you ask, you'll here a variety of answers as to how good he actually was. The majority will say, "he was the best of that era, maybe of all time."
Joey Spaeth, was considered by the best in the game, to be near impossible to beat "for the cheese." He grew-up playing one-pocket against the likes of Clem, and all the top Johnson City regulars. He said, speaking of Ronnie, "he's the only guy ever give me a ball and win!" My question to Joey was, "who's the best 1-pocket player ever?" Now mind you, this question was asked in 1983, a couple of years before Efren came on the scene playing 9-ball in the U.S..
Another thing to keep in mind is this, Reyes came late to one-pocket. He was already considered a top 9-baller and well known to the other pro's by the time he even started playing this great game. Early-on there's a story by Freddy Bentivegna, (who was coaching Efren in a proposition game against Grady Matthews) when Efren refused to take an intentional and lost, Freddy said, "Your head ain't shaped right to play this game!" In light of what's transpired since, those words look ridiculous. But Freddy the beard, is brilliant in his own right and you've got to believe he knew what he was saying at that moment! It's reported to be one of Efren's first match-ups in one hole and he would've been about 32. Now on the other hand, Ronnie in his late 20's was the most creative player ever, virtually changing the nature of "how" the game would be played in the future! Efren, now in his mid-fifties, is still making that same contribution to this game!
In Louisville in 2005, Ronnie himself said of Efren, "I never seen anything like-em!"
The debate over who's greatest of all time, needs to be among players who actually know the strengths and weaknesses in the playing styles of the contenders for that illusive title. It's so important to know how those aspects of play would effect the outcome of a match between 2 great players in their prime. I suppose a computer program could be used to evaluate players from different era's (kind like they do in other sports) to come with a more realistic conjecture as to who's best. At the end of the day, though, when any of the living greats talk about Efren Reyes and one pocket, their words practically sound alike, "I ain't seen nothin' like em!"
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